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What would you do with £25M?

Started by David Pinnegar, January 08, 2012, 02:00:01 PM

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David Pinnegar

Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on January 23, 2012, 02:50:53 PMPay is one significant reason. It's why a lot of organists . . .

Oh, and if I had 25 million, I'm afraid to say that a Lamborghini would be on my shopping list - but not one of the very latest ones.

Aah! Well perhaps in the light of the above philanthropists are going to be looking at entrusting their resources to church organists rather than merely showcase ones . . .

And as for the lamborghini . . . as yet not being an organist . . . you prove the wisdom of much of the above rather well.

In conversation with the pianist Adolfo Barabino the other day, he was saying that the difference between a certain wonderful pianist he knew and a really great pianist is that whilst a wonderful musician might play to display, a great musician will play to convey love.

Perhaps too this sentiment can apply to non-church organists . . .

Best wishes

David P

AnOrganCornucopia

Remember, if no-one bought exotic cars, we'd end up in a situation where there was no market for them and where a huge amount of our heritage would be at risk - just as with organs. Then we'd have nothing on our roads but bland Far Eastern hatchbacks... no thanks. Whenever I see an old 1960s Ferrari, for example, it really brightens up my day.

Are you saying that becoming an organist would cure me of being a petrolhead? I can think of quite a number of petrolhead organists... I seem to recall that Pierre Cochereau had a Citroen SM and a Maserati Bora...

KB7DQH

Hacked out of the article linked to earlier...

QuoteTo the poets, the discoverers, the philosophers and the statesmen, their minds, their words, their dreams and their ideas all live in the future and are made of eternally future substance. They remind us that there is a pervasive principle of mind, and that it is a dominant cause in the entire universe, and we are only now in the beginning of our 21st century, beginning to realize this principle. These men live in such spaceless-timeless-matterless worlds, and it is their encapsulating of such undiscovered countries which broadens the imagination of all mankind and drives the evolution of the entire species. It can be seen in the penetrating gaze of Rembrandt's eyeless Homer and it can be heard in the silences within the music of our greatest composers. These men are our ambassadors from the Noösphere, this invisible nation of mankind which exists outside the brain and outside of time. As life does not come from non-life, creativity does not come from non-creativity, thus the only true way to study this domain is to recreate the discovery of such future states in your own mind. Only through a culture committed to beauty and truth we can find an Elysium already waiting for us in the future.

Is this difficult to understand?

Eric
KB7DQH
The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

AnOrganCornucopia


David Pinnegar

Dear AOC

At present you are more of a petrolhead than an organist. The point of this thread is that we are limited both by resources but also our imaginations, so I have set the challenge for us to imagine that we are only limited by our imaginations.

There is no reason why society needs big government to which we devolve responsibilities to spend monies well sufficient to do good things and that private individuals who are empowered to do so by their resources can achieve things too. My thesis is that organs, in bringing people into places where

is a central theme, is a catalyst for this sort of thing to start to happen, in contrast to what we see currently as the norm.

When we delegate our public functions to other people to carry out, we would certainly object were we to see the Head of Department of a local authority with a £25M budget for his department purchasing a Lamborghini for the use of the Head of Department. We have objected to public representatives to Parliament claiming expenses for such things too.

If we object to such useless and irrelevant ostentatious expenditure in the public sector, it is perhaps for private individuals to set the standards in the private domain.

In a nation whose public debt exceeds £1T, cutbacks will mean that private individuals will have a greater opportunity and focus to be able to play their part, and organists rather than petrolheads may have the right ideas in mind.

Keep them flowing!

Best wishes

David P

AnOrganCornucopia

#25
Firstly, as for me not being an organist, I'm working on it! Currently attempting to find a time when the piano isn't in use for teaching, practice or composition to get to it - I love the piano and the organ and it frustrates me immensely that I've never got to grips with either.

Of course we would object to a person in public office using public funds for such frivolities - but when one sees an entrepreneur who has made untold millions, if not billions of pounds through worthwhile business ventures which they have built up, employing many people and helping the economy significantly (for instance, Richard Branson), who are we to say 'you can't do that, that's immoral'? It's one thing seeing a (name deleted) (about whom the less I say, the better, as I don't wish to be sued from here to kingdom come...) spending 100 million on another yacht, or paying an illiterate thug who can't keep his trousers on (I've met a few, most of them live round here) £200,000 a month for kicking a ball around, which I condemn, but I think that when someone is keeping many thousands of ordinary people off the dole, they're entitled to a little frivolity. Technically, no-one ever NEEDED to build such a large house as Hammerwood (let alone much larger places like Blenheim Palace, Castle Howard, Lyme Park, or such wonderful Victorian buildings as Cardiff Castle and Mount Stuart), and, by 1982, its raison d'etre had ceased to exist. Thankfully, some people take a more enlightened, liberal view of such things and consider it worth spending large sums on such critical parts of our culture and heritage.

The alternative to taking a liberal view on justified reward is that we end up where we were under Cromwell - I doubt somehow that many here (even the good Reverend Newnham) would wish to return to such a puritannical era!

revtonynewnham

Hi

Actually, Cromwell was pretty fond of "the good things in life" - including organs (IIRC he obtained at least two from churches when they were removed).  As to the Puritan ideas about religion, the least said the better - I just wish that people would read the Bible carefully before coming up with such ideas.  Agreed, the pre-Cromwellian church was hardly a good advert for Christianity either - but "baby" and "Bathwater" spring to mind with reference to the destruction wrought by Cromwell and his cronies.

Sadly, sometimes I see the same sort of attitudes to Christian denominations still lingering on in our times - usually from people who should know better.

Every Blessing

Tony

David Pinnegar

#27
Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on January 25, 2012, 05:39:09 PM
Firstly, as for me not being an organist, I'm working on it! . . .

Of course we would object to a person in public office using public funds for such frivolities - but when one sees an entrepreneur who has made untold millions, if not billions of pounds through worthwhile business ventures which they have built up, employing many people and helping the economy significantly . . .

. . . Technically, no-one ever NEEDED to build such a large house as Hammerwood (let alone much larger places like Blenheim Palace, Castle Howard, Lyme Park, or such wonderful Victorian buildings as Cardiff Castle and Mount Stuart), and, by 1982, its raison d'etre had ceased to exist.

Dear AOC

Perhaps when you actually become (rather than intend, the intention however being Good News) an organist and come to terms with the symbolisms of harmonic accordances and of the practice of harmonic additions, wisdoms beyond those above may bear fruit.

As for billionaire behaviour "employing many people and helping the economy significantly" in the case of Microsoft, monopoly commissions have ruled and many software companies testified to having been put out of business by their competition. When you have been a guest at a reception in Delhi surrounded by men accompanied by bejewelled women with reception room long walls with heated food stands offering 101 different delicious dishes to eat, and Rolls Royces and beggars outside, and smelt the open drains that passed for sewers outside Bombay and know that each of those dishes and the Rolls Royces and the jewels were funded by just a few extra Paise on a packet of fags bought by the poor and the beggars to bring them to an earlier grave, one's beneficient view of billionaires can be hardly universal.

This thread is not about the social responsibilities of billionaires.

In this thread I deliberately set the amount for imagination not in billions, so billionaire behaviour is irrelevant to this thread, but in a level of millions able to achieve quite a lot of good and possibly in more than a single direction and to put it at the disposal of personal responsibility.

The case of Hammerwood is interesting in the context you raise: funded possibly originally by Irish brewing and Scandinavian trading, it was built as a product of its time championing the Agricultural Revolution, without which the population would not have had enough food to eat, celebrating certain timeless esotericisms which we are finally privileged to be decoding and which, were you to be able to understand them demonstrate the value of meaningful Art, per se as a worthy recipient of beneficence. The Craft of its artisans was revered by the architect and it lay a timeless inspiration of the imagination. The project was progressed by a family who virtually invented banking.

By 1982 the building had most certainly not lost its raison d'etre although the function of its provision of barracks to 200 soldiers had, the hiding in the woods of petrol dumps, tanks and planes, as had its conversion into sordid flats, as had also its function as a forgotten playground of a disbanded pop-group.


Ironically the pop group hit the nail on its head in the title of the film they filmed here "The Song Remains the Same". The power of its Art survived and outshone mere transitory earthly functions. The Power of its architecture, its Doric evoking the most fundamental, the most primitive at the source of the soul of humankind, caused people not only including my family but for generations before, and their descendants to return and return, even from 150 years before, and wonder.

Investment in its restoration has provided not only a catalyst for the arts, opportunities for young musicians as well as a place of inspiration given by the very best and even on the cutting edge, but the rediscovery and deciphering of the Latrobe encodings is enabling a reevaluation of our past, ancient origins, myths, their reception in the 18th century and influences upon then and now, and with that perspective to look at how the present moulds into the future.

In the course of its restoration, it has brought many people together, trained many young people for whom it has put their lives on the level and its symbolism of achievement in its building, putting square block of stone upon square block of stone to build an edifice of eminence has been symbolically inspiring to all those involved whose lives have been affected by it.

Your introduction of Hammerwood Park into this thread merely as a matter of being "large" and whether such is a matter of need is a straightjacket of thought out of which many organists above have demonstrated they are able to break. It is not SIZE that matters, but meaning. Intention.

Before building a house of worth, there has to be that concept in mind:
"And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building."
It is a spiritual temple made of blocks well founded, and organs often lead to such places of the mind. *

By meaning and intention, John Sperling and Benjamin Henry Latrobe had been able to communicate through the centuries beyond the mortality of their existence, to catalyse and to make a difference.

Eric's signature makes the point:
QuoteWe must realize there's a crisis on our plate.  We've got to launch the solution, and use that  for a Renaissance which if broad enough and strong enough can create a turn in the situation of mankind as a whole. You don't need to do everything; you have to do something which will start everything.

People with significant but comparatively modest resources are able to do just that, and influence others to make good use of their talents and to help others in turn to do likewise.


I hope that other organists might continue to keep the ball of ideas rolling . . .

Best  wishes

David P


* Postscript: Wesley's notes:
QuoteMade ready - Hewed, and squared, and fitted exactly accordingto the direction of the architect. Neither hammer, &c. - So it was ordered, partly for the ease and conveniency of carriage: partly, for the magnificence of the work, and commendation of the workmen's skill and diligence: and partly, for mystical signification. And as this temple was a manifest type both of Christ's church upon earth, and of the heavenly Jerusalem: so this circumstance signified as to the former, that it is the duty of the builders and members of the church, as far as in them lies, to take care that all things be transacted there with perfect peace and quietness; and that no noise of contention, or division, or violence, be heard in that sacred building: and for the latter, that no spiritual stone, no person, shall bear a part in that heavenly temple, unless he be first hewed, and squared, and made meet for it in this life.

KB7DQH

In the interest of "full disclosure" I will point out that I paraphrased that signature line-- from the wise words of... an economist!  Moreover I could hardly be considered an "organist"...  Although I did have an opportunity as a young child to "mess about" with the church's pipe organ prior to Choir practice, as my father was the director of said choir... but that's about it... Well, the occasional turn on my Grandma's toaster :o :o :o

Eric
KB7DQH
The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

matt h

The idea as to how to spend £25m certainly seems to see many people want to spend some of their 'winnings' on increasing the popularity of organs and organ music. My question is this, what can we do without the backing of such riches?  What should we do to promote our music? And what will happen if we simply do nothing?

Regards,
Matt.

David Pinnegar

Quote from: matt h on January 26, 2012, 01:48:20 PM
The idea as to how to spend £25m certainly seems to see many people want to spend some of their 'winnings' on increasing the popularity of organs and organ music. My question is this, what can we do without the backing of such riches?  What should we do to promote our music? And what will happen if we simply do nothing?

Dear Matt

Yes! Of course! Very good points . . . and perhaps very much worthwhile to start another thread . . .

But here above there are seeds, seeds of aspiration and intention, and when seeds are planted sometimes the size of the tree that grows is even beyond our imaginations!

So can I encourage you to be brave and join in the thoughts of how one might use usefully £25M - and then indeed thoughts of what one can do for free might even result as well . . . ?

Best wishes

David P

matt h

David.

I can think of many uses for £25 million, but for the sake of argument lets say I decided to spend 10% on my hobby.  That's £2.5 million.  In the town where I live there is a disused chapel, currently for sale. I don't know the asking price, but lets say around £150,000.  I know of a lovely old Binns organ sitting in the chapel where I used to play in North Yorkshire which is sitting redundant (NPOR GO1206, which incidentally is not a Laycock and Bannister) and which I would love to re-home. Perhaps a state of the art toaster, just for fun. I would guess that one could spend an awful lot kitting out an organ practice studio. To be able to buy the music, perhaps have a kind of library of music and CD's.  Most importantly, a significant investment portfolio to keep the facility open for anyone with an interest in organ music to be able to use it.

I'm sure I'll think of more.....

Regards,
Matt

Janner

Quote from: matt h on January 26, 2012, 04:07:53 PM

............. I know of a lovely old Binns organ sitting in the chapel where I used to play in North Yorkshire which is sitting redundant (NPOR GO1206, which incidentally is not a Laycock and Bannister) and which I would love to re-home.............

Matt

Dear Matt,

The NPOR for this one doesn't list any useful details. Do you know if it's on any of the redundant lists? If not, could you give us any of the basics, e.g. number of manuals? Approx. physical dimensions? Anything at all?

A PM would be fine if you prefer.

Thanks,

J.

revtonynewnham

Hi

The Methodist Church's organs advisor would be the person to contact initially.

Every Blessing

Tony

Janner

Thanks Tony. Yes, I have all his e-mails and I don't remember seeing it, but he is a very obliging gentleman and I'm sure he will help if he can.

Matt, thanks for you PM. I have sent a reply.

Regards,

J.

matt h

No probs, VERY happy to help.

Regards,
Matt.

organforumadmin

Hi!


In view of recent vacillations reported in the press about taxation, this thread really might be worth pursuing and championing. If our culture was to see how personal wealth could be used to greater public benefit resulting not from coercion but from enthusiasm to achieve greater good, then taxation and the need for it would be significantly unnecessary. Do we really have to abrogate our responsibilities of christian spending to big government to do it for us?


It's great to see more members joining the forum: can we keep ideas here flowing? Proposals here to curate a large sum of money are allowed to include an organ . . . !


Best wishes


Forum Admin

AnOrganCornucopia

Quote from: organforumadmin on March 08, 2012, 11:35:18 AMDo we really have to abrogate our responsibilities of christian spending to big government to do it for us?

Yes. Definitely. Sorry, David, I know that there are very wealthy individuals who do the right thing and spend their money fruitfully (for instance, making sure to do their Christian duties, while rescuing large, historic mansions from the brink of oblivion...) but you only need to talk to a city banker (and I've known a few) to realise what a cavalier attitude they take. If we removed or heavily reduced taxation, there would be no money to run our schools, libraries, public parks, civic concert halls(!), National Health Service (and let's not argue about that, saying the NHS shouldn't exist as some do ought to remove your right to a British passport). You only need to look at the way that Barclays were employing hundreds of people purely to exploit tax loopholes. These are organisations with no conscience. Frankly, in my utopian view of Britain, the first things to go would be parliamentary "democracy" and the banks (beyond that which is necessary to sustain high street banking and lending to businesses). It's a measure of how genteel Britain and indeed the world has become that Fred Goodwin, Bob Diamond et al haven't been strung up and shot (which, in all honesty, I believe they deserve thoroughly). Look at the situation in 1790s France, or indeed Italy in 1945.

Now, look at the way in which we bailed out the banks in 2009, then cast your mind back to 2005, when the same Labour government refused to help MG Rover, which needed a bridging loan amounting to about 4% of the cost of the bank bailout  to enable them to bring to market what promised to be a class-leading new family hatchback which, then at an advanced pre-production stage, was going (along with a number of spinoffs using the same technology) to bring the business back into profit. MGR was employing directly several thousand people, plus probably the same again in the supply industry and various contracters. The damage caused by MGR's collapse (which was down to mismanagement by the Government, first in allowing BMW to asset-strip the business, then in failing to sustain its existence) was immense: real harm was done to many ordinary people, who went from earning and paying taxes to being on the dole. Economic growth suffered and we lost out on exports. Could we say the same about the investment arms of the various banks we bailed out? I think not. They put nothing back into society and, if relieved of an outright legal responsibility to pay their taxes, would gleefully take full advantage of the opportunity to pay sweet f. a. in tax.

MusingMuso

I'm being unusually scribic to-day; possibly because I've nothing better to do. However, this is a question I have often pondered, in preparation for the day that I win the lottery.

I wouldn't buy big cars and a noble pile, (apologies for that to Mr P), but I would indulge myself in a Caterham 7 and possibly kill myself shortly after.

If I survived the Caterham 7 experience, I think I would buy a redundant mill or factory, and turn it into a multiple craft workshop, where vital skills could be kept alive, where young people could take pride in learning the skills, and where things of beauty and quality could be made for posterity.

It could be run in such a way that a "collective" approach would reduce costs to a bare minimum: no rent, but a reasonable and proportional contribution to day to day operating costs and maintenance. This would be such a vital and welcome approach to encouraging craft industries to start-up and develop, and if that included the building or restoration of pipe organs, I would be entirely happy with that. (I think I would also include the building of quality electronic organs, which has a long and distinguished history in the UK, as well as a certain marketing potential).

Having grown up in an industrial northern town, I know how important skills and passionate interests are, and my heart bleeds for the kids of to-day, who seem to semi-exist in a dull world, where the excitement of drugs, casual sex and mindless pop-music seem to tbe their only outlet. There is so much energy which is going to waste, and without opportunity, these youngsters will never realise their own potential or be able to make much of a contribution to the long-term well-being of society.

Enthusiasm and acquired skills are the building blocks of lives and societies, and we need more, not less.


revtonynewnham

Hi

With regard to AOC's comments re the NHS - this really must be protected.  I can't understand those who would like to do away with it.  It's all very well for those with a significant income to pay for health insurance.  i suspect that if I lived somewhere like the USA, I'd be dead by now, as I can't envisage any private insurance company funding the treatment - over a number of years - for the significant health problems that I've had.  (Including 4 major operations).

Every Blessing

Tony