Conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses

[David Pinnegar]

Hi!

A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses arrived on the doorstep today and posted a leaflet through the door. Seeing them beat a fast retreat I hailed them, asking what the leaflet was all about.

"A convention about God" - come.

So I asked "what" God was. "Who" replied the man. I referred to "Our Father _which_ art . . . " and told them that this was the trouble, not the Big Daddy who told Muslims to kill Infidels . . . and explained Genesis 1 being about that force that causes all matter to be brought together in the most productive ways . . . about Construction Force and Unconstruction in which matter is separated. The woman, who was itching 5 paces in front of the man said something about "That's the Separation that Christ said would happen" . . . . to which I replied that it was important to try to bring people together, instead, and find ways of dissolving differences.

And that's the point about this post. Prophecy . . . Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it happen - must it happen? Can the future be altered? Do we have a responsibility both as humans and as those who act out God's intentions to do something different and cause prophecy not to come about? Should we accept fate, destiny in passive acceptance or should we forge through, despite the weeds that want to choke our crops, in actively growing the crop of faith in faith?

On another thread entitled directly about Fate, Destiny and Faith I might pursue this aspect further.

In discussion, specifically with Jehovah's Witnesses however, I find inflexibilities, people who want blindly to accept what they are told irrespective of their intellect, who do not wish to think, let alone think for themselves.

Am I being unkind to to Jehovah's Witnesses? No doubt to the two this morning I was the serpent in the Garden of Eden . . .

Best wishes

David P

[MusingMuso]

Hi!

A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses arrived on the doorstep today and posted a leaflet through the door. Seeing them beat a fast retreat I hailed them, asking what the leaflet was all about.

"A convention about God" - come.

So I asked "what" God was. "Who" replied the man. I referred to "Our Father _which_ art . . . " and told them that this was the trouble, not the Big Daddy who told Muslims to kill Infidels . . . and explained Genesis 1 being about that force that causes all matter to be brought together in the most productive ways . . . about Construction Force and Unconstruction in which matter is separated. The woman, who was itching 5 paces in front of the man said something about "That's the Separation that Christ said would happen" . . . . to which I replied that it was important to try to bring people together, instead, and find ways of dissolving differences.

And that's the point about this post. Prophecy . . . Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it happen - must it happen? Can the future be altered? Do we have a responsibility both as humans and as those who act out God's intentions to do something different and cause prophecy not to come about? Should we accept fate, destiny in passive acceptance or should we forge through, despite the weeds that want to choke our crops, in actively growing the crop of faith in faith?

On another thread entitled directly about Fate, Destiny and Faith I might pursue this aspect further.

In discussion, specifically with Jehovah's Witnesses however, I find inflexibilities, people who want blindly to accept what they are told irrespective of their intellect, who do not wish to think, let alone think for themselves.

Am I being unkind to to Jehovah's Witnesses? No doubt to the two this morning I was the serpent in the Garden of Eden . . .

Best wishes

David P

Dear David,


I once knew a very colourful character who came from a very large family; all crammed into a modest council house on a dreadful estate. At any one time, there were children being washed, bathed, dressed, fed and watered....an everlasting amalgam of baptism and communion. Easily the most chaotic and dysfunctional family I've ever encountered, they all lived in a fantasy world.

This remarkable...nay...unique household, included a grandmother who believed in witchcraft, a father who believed in cannabis, a mother who couldn't believe what had happened to her and an eldest son who, having almost been drowned at a Wicken baptism, was like a teenage version of Count Dracula, complete with cape, a certain hostility towards crosses and other Christian symbols, a natural affinity to dark places and a bedroom the size of the average petite baronial coffin.

Odd was not the word...neither was funny, peculiar, oddball or crazy. Unique....that was the only description possible, yet the junior Dracula probably had the most beautiful handwriting I've ever come across. He had a wonderful way of dealing with the Jehova's Witnesses, for as they approached with their little black-books and knocked, he would pluck one of his naked sisters from the bath, put on his black cape and go to answer the door.

"We're from the Jehova's Witnesses; could we interest you in our pamphlet?"

His eyes would narrow, and then with a spine-tingling hiss, he would look at his naked little sister, and say, "Get back on that altar!"
This had the twin effect of both eliminating the Witnesses and traumatising them, and it never failed.

The Mormons got a better deal, but only because he fancied them.

Apparently, when the young Mormon told him that they sometimes helped people in financial difficulties, he replied, "Do I have to sign anything?"

The world is full of crazy people, and it's been a bit of a privilege to know a few of them. They certainly add colour to an often drab world, and IMHO, it doesn't get any drabber than the Jehova's Witnesses.

It's a poor do when a man can't enjoy a pint of blood in his own front-room.
Best,

MM

PS: Thought for the day:-  "The greatest threats to the world are order and disorder."

[David Pinnegar]

It's a poor do when a man can't enjoy a pint of blood in his own front-room.

:-)

Isn't that what communicants do on Sundays?

Best wishes

David P

[MusingMuso]

Hi!

A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses arrived on the doorstep today and posted a leaflet through the door. Seeing them beat a fast retreat I hailed them, asking what the leaflet was all about.

"A convention about God" - come.

So I asked "what" God was. "Who" replied the man. I referred to "Our Father _which_ art . . . " and told them that this was the trouble, not the Big Daddy who told Muslims to kill Infidels . . . and explained Genesis 1 being about that force that causes all matter to be brought together in the most productive ways . . . about Construction Force and Unconstruction in which matter is separated. The woman, who was itching 5 paces in front of the man said something about "That's the Separation that Christ said would happen" . . . . to which I replied that it was important to try to bring people together, instead, and find ways of dissolving differences.

And that's the point about this post. Prophecy . . . Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it happen - must it happen? Can the future be altered? Do we have a responsibility both as humans and as those who act out God's intentions to do something different and cause prophecy not to come about? Should we accept fate, destiny in passive acceptance or should we forge through, despite the weeds that want to choke our crops, in actively growing the crop of faith in faith?

On another thread entitled directly about Fate, Destiny and Faith I might pursue this aspect further.

In discussion, specifically with Jehovah's Witnesses however, I find inflexibilities, people who want blindly to accept what they are told irrespective of their intellect, who do not wish to think, let alone think for themselves.

Am I being unkind to to Jehovah's Witnesses? No doubt to the two this morning I was the serpent in the Garden of Eden . . .

Best wishes

David P

Dear David,

Having re-read your previous post, I realised that you may have done an injustice to the wider scholarship of Islam.

Surely, there are primitive believers who would kill or at least shun infidels; especially if they invaded or occupied their lands, but even as early as the 9th century, the Islamic scholar Al Kindi was proposing the theology of Aristotle, in which God was not a "being" but a "creative force." In fact,his religious philosophy was at odds with creationism, and brought him into conflict with Christians as well as Muslims...not that it ever got terribly nasty or violent, even though his library was temporarily confiscated at one point.

The real danger is fundamentalist belief of whatever faith: the attempt to order all things within the confines of narrow, unchanging faith. Christians have been just as guilty over the centuries, and quite recently, in Northern Ireland. Fundamentalism is usually connected with the politics of nationalism.

I make no special point, but I think we always need to appreciate that all religions are nuanced, and far from straightforward.

Best,

MM

[David Pinnegar]

as early as the 9th century, the Islamic scholar Al Kindi was proposing the theology of Aristotle, in which God was not a "being" but a "creative force."

Dear MM

Thanks for your very helpful overview and observations in your post but especially for pointing me in the above direction which in sincerity I believe to be the knub of Genesis 1. . . .

Best wishes

David P


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