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Messages - JBR

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The point about the Ripieno is that it's a buildup of octaves and fifths. So 8ft and 4ft Principal, then Nazard, Fifteenth, Larigot, 1ft, fifth above that and the octave above that. Of course they break back to the lower octaves at the upper end of the keyboards.

But perhaps people are familiar with the mock 32ft effect by playing fifths on the pedalboard. A fifth produces a beat note an octave below the lower note of the fifth. So as one starts to add octaves and fifths their beats add notes below them, and if these beats are strong enough, they will add octaves lower still. It's for this reason that the Ripieno adds gravitas whilst apparently going higher.

Best wishes

David P

But wouldn't you expect the same with quint mixtures and cymbels?  Or is it more to do with the sound quality of Italian principal pipes?

Organ History / Re: The Arp Schnitger Organ at Cappel
« on: April 15, 2017, 10:32:09 PM »
Thanks Ian.  Interesting information.

Organ building and maintenance / Re: Organ Pipe Making observations
« on: March 20, 2017, 10:23:54 PM »
Firstly, your question on the Spitz Flute and Erzaeler.
The Spitz Flute is a medium sized, in bore and cut- up, a robustly - toned flute.  The word ' Spitz " implies that it has an open, invertly tapered body, and it has been traditionally used in the main 8 ft or 4ft flute chorus on the principal keyboard of the organ.  However, different organ builders might have their own interpretation on this.

Secondly, the Erzaeler, which is a little more difficult to explain.
In the USA, it generally denotes a mild - toned string stop, often paired with a Vox Celeste which gives an undulating effect when the two are used together.
       However, my own interpretation of the Erzaeler  (German : Narrator ) has always been a reed register

Thanks for your explanation.

I asked the question because, outwardly at least, the Spitz Flute and the Ezähler look very similar (in being tapered).  Consequently, I always thought that they must sound fairly similar too, although I realise that appearances can be deceptive and there are a number of alterations that can be made to change the sound of a pipe quite radically.

I can't say I have ever seen an Ezähler on a British organ, and had assumed that it was an entirely American thing which was just another name for a Spitz Flute or perhaps a Gemshorn.

If a mild string stop, then, could it be somewhat similar to a Spitzgamba which, I think, is more likely to be found in German speaking areas?

I confess that I was completely unaware that there were Ezählers in the form of reed stops.

Organ building and maintenance / Re: Organ Pipe Making observations
« on: March 17, 2017, 10:46:31 PM »
No, I had nothing like that.  I'm sure I would have remembered.

Actually, I think it is probably a very good idea in order to deter, or prevent the access of, trolls.  The questions you quoted are the sort of thing that most organists (or non-organist afficionados, such as myself) would be likely to know.

Not being completely serious, but it occurs to me that they could put much more severe questions to people applying to join a hypothetical advanced forum, such as "What is the difference between a Spitz Flute and an Erzähler?"

Not a question I should be able to answer, I must admit!

Organ building and maintenance / Re: Organ Pipe Making observations
« on: March 16, 2017, 10:12:04 PM »
I must say, your forum verification process with the questions about organ knowledge are a bit scary and daunting for a novice, and were it not for Google, I'd have never even been able to join here - Is that the intent?


I don't remember any of that when I joined.

Organs Preserved / Re: Hooglandse Kerk Leiden - Willis organ
« on: March 14, 2017, 10:30:15 PM »
I welcome any news of English organs, or even organs in the English style, being 'adopted' by other European countries.

Organ Builders / Re: The Hinsz -Schnitger - Freytag family
« on: March 14, 2017, 10:28:31 PM »
Yet more fascinating information.  Thank you, Ian.

Organ Builders / Re: The Hinsz -Schnitger - Freytag family
« on: March 02, 2017, 10:20:54 PM »

Organ Builders / Re: Arp Schnitger
« on: February 26, 2017, 10:17:15 PM »
Yes, very informative.

But wasn't there a mention of Stumm?  Amorbach?  I can't say I've ever heard that instrument other than recordings.

Organ Builders / Re: Arp Schnitger
« on: February 24, 2017, 10:42:33 PM »
Many thanks.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 23, 2017, 11:11:41 PM »
I'd just like to thank those involved for enlightening me with regard to oboes!

I have to say that I visit this forum (and one other organ site) every day in the hope of encountering threads on the subject of organ structure, history and tonality.  Sadly, more than often discussions tend to be concerning the music of the organ and its composers and players, although I can perfectly well appreciate that.  This last couple of days, however, has been like a trip to heaven!  Thanks again.

Perhaps we might see more discussion of my favoured subjects.  Ian's suggestions about Stumm and Schnitger would be very welcome as far as I'm concerned, and why not more about other European instruments and builders?  :)

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 22, 2017, 11:18:57 PM »
Yay!  It's come back to life!

Looking back,  this thread seems initially to be John asking about the differences between a Swell Oboe and an Orchestral Oboe:   The main differences (at least in our own 'Willis' terms) is construction - the standard Swell Oboe or 'Hautboy' construction is usually a very small-scaled, reverse-conical tube (resonator) topped by a larger, faster gradient, reverse-conical 'Bell'.   The bell is either fully open, fully capped (soldered) or with a full cap left un-soldered to act as a regulating flap.

The invention of the Orchestral Oboe is credited to our own George Willis (brother of FHW) and given the higher pressure usually needed to make these I suspect that that credit is correct - George began the Willis voicing system for reeds which we still follow and without which no reeds can accurately be said (though it doesn't prevent them being said) to be 'Willis-style'!   The construction is a slightly faster gradient - though still relatively small-scaled tube,  without any 'bell';  A Willis Orch Oboe would be fully capped (soldered),  with a 1/3-diameter width slot cut  1/3-diameter down from the cap,  the resulting flap would be scrolled to prevent its being moved inadvertently after voicing and regulating,  and there would be a hole pierced opposite the slot.   

The shallots are also different:  the Swell Oboe would have a Willis 'C' set shallot, either 'filled in' or 'unfilled' dependent on the pressure to be used and the eventual tone required whereas the Orch Oboe would have a special form of shallot - very narrow with an extremely slow taper, open face and with a reverse-beaked end.   This gives a particularly thin - almost string-like - sound and a thick tongue is used in the voicing to bring back, as required, some of the roundness of the true Oboe tone.



Thank you very much for that, David.

Re. the difference in sound, then, I assume that in simple terms the Solo Orchestral Oboe would have a 'thinner' sound than that of the Swell.  So would the Solo Oboe be any louder than the Swell Oboe (both boxes open, of course)?

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 19, 2017, 10:28:41 PM »
My current project in the barn is a 3 manual instrument under construction and progressing nicely.
Over the last few years as I have been acquiring bits and pieces for this instrument I have met some truly dedicated people to the instrument and its repertoire. A good 50% of these are under the 45 year old mark. I have been freely given much useful advice and some of these contacts have turned into good friends.
regards and best wishes

That's very encouraging.

Do you have a projected specification of your barn instrument?

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 16, 2017, 10:43:14 PM »
Ah yes.  Those links are to pages of the Stauff 'Encyclopaedia of Organ Stops' aren't they?

Thank you.

I was hoping to encourage some English organists or, better still, organ builders to reply from their perspective and, in that way, encourage some more posts on this excellent web site which seems to be dying!

I sincerely hope not.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 15, 2017, 10:07:45 PM »
Yes, I think you're right.  It's dead.  It has ceased to be.  It has gone to join the choir invisible!  ;D

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« on: February 14, 2017, 10:18:53 PM »
Yes, I'm afraid it has been quiet for a few days now.

I could ask all sorts of questions, but I'm not sure there'd be much interest.  We'll see!

How would you describe the difference, tonally, between a Swell oboe and a Solo orchestral oboe?

(Please understand that I am not an organist and any knowledge I have about the instrument is entirely theoretical!)

Organs in danger / Re: Slow death
« on: January 31, 2017, 10:34:52 PM »
Still a glimmer of life here!

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Seasons Greetings
« on: December 16, 2016, 10:05:04 PM »
Thank you.  And the same from me, a happy Christmas and a merry new year.

"For me the electronic provides a degree of sound laboratory facility that can be helpful to design and understanding of the tonality of pipe instruments and their registration."

Yes, I think what I'd find particularly interesting about an electronic organ (of the right type) is the facility for setting different temperaments which, of course, one cannot do with a pipe organ.

Unfortunately, I can't afford one!  :'(

Electronic Organs / Re: Value of pre-1961 Hammond RT3 + Leslie 122R
« on: September 13, 2016, 10:15:54 PM »
I'm afraid I have no idea, but does an electronic Hammond sound the same as an old tone-wheel Hammond?

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