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H. Howells "Out of the depths"

Started by Pierre Lauwers, January 15, 2012, 11:01:18 AM

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Pierre Lauwers

This is a new video, featuring a splendid Psalm-Prelude by Herbert Howells:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhSSB-zLaAA

The organ is a 1994 Reuters, built with pipework of the previous organ.

Best wishes,
Pierre

AnOrganCornucopia

I think it's Reuter singular, rather than Reuters (as in the news agency). It's an odd sound - very polished and occasionally cloying. If I had stumbled across that on YouTube I'd have assumed it was a (good) toaster.

organforumadmin

Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on January 15, 2012, 05:00:11 PMIf I had stumbled across that on YouTube I'd have assumed it was a (good) toaster.


It just goes to show how easy it is for people to get the wrong end of the stick. Nothing replaces actual experience of the physical reality . . .

AnOrganCornucopia

Indeed so! I know I've been guilty of that on a number of occasions.

Incidentally, Pierre, how did you get the information that it's a Reuter pipe organ?

dragonser

Hi,
also remember that the recording devices, and youtube does have some effect on the sound and video quality due to various factors including the data compression that may be used.
I hope at a later date to be able to provide some examples of this.
regards Peter B

Quote from: organforumadmin on January 16, 2012, 11:52:37 AM
It just goes to show how easy it is for people to get the wrong end of the stick. Nothing replaces actual experience of the physical reality . . .

Pierre Lauwers

Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on January 16, 2012, 12:03:33 PM
Indeed so! I know I've been guilty of that on a number of occasions.

Incidentally, Pierre, how did you get the information that it's a Reuter pipe organ?

In Situ, in 1994. I went there about one month after the job was finished.

Pierre Lauwers

#6
....Moreover, there is something about it on the Internet, and easy to find:

http://www.shadysidepres.org/node/26

And here is the Specifications , this time the present-day, Reuter's one:

http://database.organsociety.org/SingleOrganDetails.php?OrganID=10818

(I had previously linked towards the 1990 Möller's one)

AnOrganCornucopia

Hi Pierre, thanks for the info!

An odd spec with very neo-classical looking gallery divisions - and the manual 32ft reed on the Choir rather than the Swell?

The photographs of the interior of the church remind me very much of the Sacré Coeur in Paris.

David Drinkell

An interesting point is made about toasters.  A typical American pipe organ in a typically dry American acoustic will sound very like an up-market toaster. I suppose that's obvious and to be expected, but it goes some way to explaining why Allens, for example, don't sound quite right in British churches.  The really smooth voicing gives them away.  In the YouTube recording under consideration, I think I could have believed it was a toaster until the Pedal got really gutsy.  At that point, the manual parts still sounded Allen-ish, but the Pedal had more weight and rasp than I would have expected it if hadn't been real.

Pierre Lauwers

Indeed it is frequent that modern organs present a "clean" voicing, with every voice
next to the other, rather than blending togheter. This was typical for the
neo-baroque period, and this is what the toaster imitate -of course, such devices
could never reproduce any blend at all-. Moreover, organs that are too well in tune
may reinforce this impression, like dry acoustics too. Whenever you hear an off-tune pipe,
you instinctly know you have the real thing.

Best wishes,
Pierre

pcnd5584

Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on January 17, 2012, 05:39:43 PM
Indeed it is frequent that modern organs present a "clean" voicing, with every voice
next to the other, rather than blending togheter. This was typical for the
neo-baroque period, and this is what the toaster imitate -of course, such devices
could never reproduce any blend at all-. Moreover, organs that are too well in tune
may reinforce this impression, like dry acoustics too. Whenever you hear an off-tune pipe,
you instinctly know you have the real thing.

Best wishes,
Pierre

....Or else you are in France....

Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

pcnd5584

Quote from: David Drinkell on January 17, 2012, 03:35:01 PM
An interesting point is made about toasters.  A typical American pipe organ in a typically dry American acoustic will sound very like an up-market toaster. I suppose that's obvious and to be expected, but it goes some way to explaining why Allens, for example, don't sound quite right in British churches.  The really smooth voicing gives them away.  In the YouTube recording under consideration, I think I could have believed it was a toaster until the Pedal got really gutsy.  At that point, the manual parts still sounded Allen-ish, but the Pedal had more weight and rasp than I would have expected it if hadn't been real.

This is an interesting point.

I have to play a new-ish Allen toaster on the second Sunday of each December, for a colleague's school carol service. I have often wondered why the do not even seem to resemble other electronic organs - much less pipe organs.


Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

AnOrganCornucopia

Quote from: pcnd5584 on January 18, 2012, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on January 17, 2012, 05:39:43 PM
Whenever you hear an off-tune pipe,
you instinctly know you have the real thing.

....Or else you are in France....

This is something which puzzles me too. I have in my collection two Priory CDs of the organ of the Sacré-Couer in Paris, played by Naji Hakim, featuring a plethora of his works (including the Rhapsody, in which, requiring two players, he is joined by his lovely and very capable wife) plus, on one, Franck's Prière and Choral No1 in E. On the latter CD (one of the Great European Organs series) especially, the tuning (particularly of the reeds) is so badly out as to be absolutely insufferable. Why either Hakim or Priory passed the recording I cannot think - and surely, if money could be found to make these recordings, it could also have been found to have this magnificent organ tuned!

I am very glad to hear that the new regime at SC are more appreciative of the organ, so it is now tuned again and preparations are being made for its restoration.

pcnd5584

Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on January 18, 2012, 07:42:08 PM
Quote from: pcnd5584 on January 18, 2012, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on January 17, 2012, 05:39:43 PM
Whenever you hear an off-tune pipe,
you instinctly know you have the real thing.

....Or else you are in France....

This is something which puzzles me too. I have in my collection two Priory CDs of the organ of the Sacré-Couer in Paris, played by Naji Hakim, featuring a plethora of his works (including the Rhapsody, in which, requiring two players, he is joined by his lovely and very capable wife) plus, on one, Franck's Prière and Choral No1 in E. On the latter CD (one of the Great European Organs series) especially, the tuning (particularly of the reeds) is so badly out as to be absolutely insufferable. Why either Hakim or Priory passed the recording I cannot think - and surely, if money could be found to make these recordings, it could also have been found to have this magnificent organ tuned!

I am very glad to hear that the new regime at SC are more appreciative of the organ, so it is now tuned again and preparations are being made for its restoration.

Indeed. I had noticed the same thing. Having said that, I have many recordings of the organ of Nôtre-Dame de Paris (made over about thirty years), and it is almost always pretty much in tune. The only exception is the first commercial recording made on it by Pierre Cochereau (when he had been in-post less than a year). It is true that at this point - and prior to its restoration - Cavaillé-Coll's masterpiece was ailing somewhat.
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

AnOrganCornucopia

Indeed. St Sulpice always seems in tune, too, and in my three Franck CDs (Daniel Roth, Motette - not recommended, the performances take rubato to a whole ridiculous new level IMO), the C-Cs used there (St Sulpice, St Brieuc and Santa Maria del Coro in San Sebastian/Donostia) are all in tune.

I have also recently acquired a digital copy of Georges Delvallée's recording of Tournemire's L'Orgue Mystique, using S. Ouen, Rouen, Orleans Cathedral, S.Sernin Toulouse and Nôtre Dame de la Dalbade also in Toulouse (stupendous 3m/48 rank Puget). These four instruments are all in tune in every recording (amateur and otherwise!) that I've heard. Listen to it yourself, it's the channel called "TheMysticalOrgan" which is in my signature. I'm NEARLY done uploading - just another few days should crack it.

Pierre Lauwers

There are two reasons for the french organs to be ofter off-tune than the british ones:

1)- Free-toned reeds, with thin tongues, hold their tune more difficultly than the less-free toned ones
      (not to mention the closed-toned ones that still exist) from Britain, with thicker tongues;

2)- The West-end position, above the high doors, sees the organ precisely in the high part of the building,
      where the modern heating systems gather the warmth. You can have there 25°C, for example, when
      there are 18° at floor level.

But as a matter of fact, when you visit organs in Situ -in Britain as well as elsewhere- there are always at least
some pipes that are more or less off-tune.

Best wishes,
Pierre

flared_ophicleide

Douglas Major did a magnificant interpretation of this piece years ago at Washington Cathedral (Gothic Records).  I bought the tape back in '85.
Girard College Chapel (Phila.) comes to mind, too. The piece sounds great on their big Skinner.