Author Topic: Posts scheduled for removal to Admin team area  (Read 4764 times)

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Posts scheduled for removal to Admin team area
« on: March 09, 2012, 12:11:41 PM »
Dear AOC

I am sorry to say that your post above demonstrates your inability to provide objective comment. Your views are hampered by lack of practical experience in playing and by lack of training in the practical art of organ building.

I imagine that the moderator who approved your post who I know has been trying carefully to guide you was simply exasperated at the time your posts you are occupying in your contributions to the forum.

Any organist, in contrast to an observer critic, knows that a 7 rank organ is both limited as is the repertoire you can play on it. In this context your jibe about "sufficiently imaginative hands" and emboldened is patently on the face of it absurd, and demonstrating a wholly unnecessary venomous streak wholly inappropriate to the gentlemanly world of organists and their christian context. In terms of loving your neighbour as yourself it is far from the mark.

A member of this forum has pointed you to a practical course of research in which you could do considerably more good than wasting your time on the computer making yourself feel good in criticising others with many more years of accomplishments than yourself and this includes not only players but renowned organ builders and their instruments. I am aware of one post that a moderator forwarded to me in which you rubbished an instrument and a builder which was a landmark of its time which made people _think_ and which after 30 years good service in a continuous teaching environment needs attention to its mechanics.

Perhaps it is of no coincidence that I was this morning on the point of buying
as a present for someone I know and saw a review quoting the following:
"So how well do you know yourself? Pretty well? Not at all? Vaguely? We think we know ourselves until we come to give up smoking, lose weight,   get fit, get rich. And then we realise we are lazier, have less willpower, less determination, make less effort, get too easily dissuaded,   fall by the wayside too readily.
If I wanted to tuck you under my wing and make you wealthy, the first thing I would need to know is: 'Do you have what it takes to be   wealthy? Are you determined enough? Will you work hard enough? Will you   stick at it? Do you have backbone? Stamina? Guts? Relentless focus?'   You see, if you don't, the chances are you won't succeed."
Substitute here the concept of "wealth" for "nice person" - "one with whom others can work" - the three concepts are often synonymous.

Another rule is that being a "nice person" (or being wealthy, to which it is obvious you aspire) is a consequence, not a reward.

That concept is powerful.

Do you have what it takes to be (xxx)? Are you determined enough? Will you work hard enough? Will you stick at it? Do you have backbone? Stamina? Guts? Relentless focus?' You see, if you don't, the chances are you won't succeed. 

I have sent to you privately rules for thought management to work upon based upon the problems that have been from time to time publicly apparent with your posts and for a time you appeared to be working on them. All of us on  the management team of this forum wish to see you succceed and use your talents well.For this reason I am asking the moderators not to approve any of your posts until you have made twelve posts of a nature which demonstrate objective perception and gentlemanly goodwill.

This post is public as part of the narrative, but should be put into the administrators archive within three days.

If we fail to do so, please can anyone report this post to admin to do so.

Best wishes

Forum Admin
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:05:05 PM by organforumadmin »


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Re: Re: Minimum specification of small organ
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 10:48:57 PM »
I was not being snide or venomous, just making the point that various organists have used enough imagination to get something out of the Kilkhampton Willis. If PCND failed to get anything from it, can we really place all the blame squarely on the organ? Of course not! Organists all have strengths and weaknesses: some may be very good at getting the best out of small organs, at the expense of improvisation skills (which, I am informed, is one of PCND's strongest points). I think it would be an immodest (if not arrogant) musician indeed who claimed complete mastery over every aspect of their instrument and its repertoire. I know I've slaughtered a few sacred cows here, but I make no apologies for that. There seems to be a lot of deafness to criticism of certain favoured organs on this forum and truly vicious attacks on those who dare to question.

For the record, I did not claim that I 'failed to get anything from it'. However, I did say that I found it rather more limiting that you suggested.

Consider the stoplist:

Note that, whilst there is a G.O. Octave coupler, there is no Swell to Choir. Now, whilst of course one can vary which stops are coupled to other divisions, or one could play an octave higher (or lower), in reality, there simply is not that much variety.

Richard, tell me - have you been to Kilkhampton and heard it used, either accompanying a congregation (or a choir), or in solo repertoire. If so, I would be interested to know the following:

1) Who was the performer?
2) What pieces were played (in either capacity)?
3) What did he or she do with regard to registration  (and subterfuge), in addition to those points which I listed above?
4) Was there really as much variety in this gently-voiced instrument as you claim?

If, however, you have not been to Kilkhampton and heard it in the manner I described above, may I suggest that this is why I referred to a comment in your earlier post as 'snide' - not to say, inaccurate.

With regard to your observations on sacred cows and instruments of 'certain favoured' organs, I would be interested (and genuinely so) to know if you include the Walker organ of Wimborne Minster amongst this list. If so, please understand that I am well aware that there are many organ- and music-lovers who do not like this instrument (or who dislike some features of its design or voicing). For the record, I do not take such criticism personally. I may be sad that they are unable to appreciate what I regard as a truly musical organ (with the possible exception of the chamade). However, even in the case of the latter register, it is how one uses it. I would never use it as a Trumpet solo - the design, even the scale, is, I believe, fundametally flawed if the intention was to use it thus. However, used with tutti reeds (perhaps for a fanfare), the effect is arresting and actually, quite majestic. In addition, it can be used as a solo stop - but with qualifications. For example, in Bach's De profundis Chorale (Aus tiefer Not), I use it (well, with the addition of a colleague's troisième main) with the 8ft. and 4ft. fonds and the Cymbal - and with the Swell chorus coupled, and with both Octave couplers), in order to bring out the chorale melody which Bach apportioned for the Pedals. Yes, I can play it as written - but I find it deeply dissatisfying to do so. Whatever registration one chooses conventionally, will be wrong. Either the chorale melody will not stand out, or the bass will be too prominent. and, before you throw up your hands in horror at my mention of both Octave couplers, the Swell chorus is also coupled to the G.O. chorus - and it works well in this building. There is no perceived imbalance as a result of these couplers, simply a noble, dignified sound, with the commanding voice of the Chamade giving forth the chorale melody.

In case you are about to reply that this proves that I can only stand a plethora of high-pitched compound stops, let it be known that I always seek to find registrations which I feel enhance the piece I am playing at that time - and on that instrument. For that matter, on my 'main' piston channel, 'General 2' gives all the 8ft. fonds, the Pedal 16ft. and 8ft. fonds and all unison couplers. 'General 3' adds the G.O. 16fl. flue, the Swell Sub Octave and all the 4ft. fonds (except the Positive Chimney flute, which just eats wind and thus has a negative influence on this otherwise sonorous and full sound).

These are just one or two examples of how I endeavour to think carefully (and often unconventionally) about registration.

In case you need further reassurance that I am able to be inventive and to extract the best from small instruments, I was, for several years, organist here:

Yes, it is larger than that at Kilkhampton (about four miles up the road) - but not by much.

I have given recitals on it (and in addition played many voluntaries before and after services) and my repertoire included Dupré's Prelude and Fugue, in B major, the Final from Vierne's First Symphony for Organ, several of Bach's 'Great' preludes and fugues, Gigout's Toccata, some Saint-Saëns, Alain's Litaines, Briggs' transcription of Cochereau's improvised concert piece Cantem Toto la Gloria and many other works. In all these items, I sought to find the sounds which I felt would show off each piece at its best - on this instrument and in this building - whilst at the same time, remain as faitful as possible to the composers' intentions.

Clearly, any calls for a Tuba, a 32ft. reed, a classical French (or even English) Cornet and a host of other registrations, were going to be either impossible - or severely compromised. Nevertheless, with some imagination, subterfuge and almost (occasionally) auto-suggestion, it was amazing how effective this little organ was.

So, before you accuse me of failing to extract the best from a small instrument, perhaps you would do me the courtesy of reading the above carefully - and consider more carefully your replies.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 01:32:39 PM by pcnd5584 »
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man


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