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St Joseph's Wealdstone

Started by makemoreandmore, April 24, 2012, 11:55:15 AM

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makemoreandmore

I heard that this organ is soon to be thrown out, along with its historic organ certificate...

Anyone care to rescue it?

rh1306

Frederick Rothwell, 1955 is all I can ascertain about this instrument.....

AnOrganCornucopia

#2
http://www.go-organbuilders.org.uk/project/?Wealdstone-St-Joseph-Salvatorians-65 suggests it's had a light overhaul quite recently. The testimonial from Brother Paul Harris is interesting because he is a trained organ-builder who has worked for Willis and David Wells as well as being an experienced organist. I wonder if he and Gary Owens know each other from working for David Wells?

http://www.catholicwealdstone.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Organ-Report.pdf - This much more detailed article from Br Harris tells a very different story indeed. Is it to GO that he refers in his condemnation of work carried out?

http://www.catholicwealdstone.org/wordpress/?p=671 confirms that the decision has been taken to purchase a toaster, which is already installed on hire.

Nowhere is mention made of the organ being removed. Can the OP provide any further information?

Truth be told, it does look like the organ is too small for the building as well as in poor condition - I can only suggest that the organ, suitably rebuilt, would make a good house or small church organ. Meanwhile, let us pray that the church receives a windfall to pay for an adequate pipe organ...

jcrouch55

Before contacting the Church authorities can you say how genuine you believe the information to be?  I have had a quick look at their website and there is no obvious mention of this.  I do not wish to appear to be dealing in third hand rumour.

David Pinnegar

#4
Hi!

AOC - thanks for posting
http://www.catholicwealdstone.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Organ-Report.pdf

It's a very well written and cogent report, explaining in detail to any layman exactly what issues there are with electro-pnuematics. Perhaps in the circumstances we would all come to the same conclusion.

However, it's ironic that really the problem is over-heating and our profligate use of energy and our expectation that we can continue to do so.

In 100 years time without the benefits of oil and when electricity is scarce, electronic organs will be useless and pipe organs will be in a happy environment to last 100s of years as they did in the past.

Best wishes

David P

PS As a footnote - from http://www.go-organbuilders.org.uk/project/?Wealdstone-St-Joseph-Salvatorians-65 referring to the former state of poor tuning and disrepair it is implicit that it is to Gary Owens' care that the organ is referred to as having been "placed into the hands of another company":
QuoteFurthermore, the tuning was in an inexcusable state, especially as we had at least two tuning visits per year. I immediately removed the organ from the care of this firm and placed it into the hands of another company.
This is one of a series of instances where I hear of GO giving good care to organs in often difficult cases.


QuoteSt Joseph's Wealdstone – Organ
The Situation in brief:
 The pipe organ is in an unreliable state owing to intense forced air heat/lack of humidity – lack of humidity to a pipe organ is like running a car without water...it cooks!
 The intense heat has caused moving timber slider mechanisms to twist – resulting in tight/sticking slider actions which cause individual organ stops to malfunction - and soundboard tabletops to split, allowing wind to leak between individual notes of the organ which in turn causes notes to sound without the key being depressed.
To have these action problems rectified requires full restoration of the two soundboards which would cost in the region of £60k. However, we must also consider the electro-pneumatic action which is still in its original state (1950's cotton-covered cable and Bakelite switch gear) and the leatherwork inside the action of the organ.
Original wiring inside the organ console – because of its age, it is almost impossible to carry out a one off repair!
One of the Bakelite magnets (one of these for each note – around 200+)
A new magnet
To rectify the current problems without renewing the electro-pneumatic action would be a total waste of time and money as this action is also proving problematic and is in need of renewal too – we would not leave the electrics in our house for 60 years without re-wiring so we shouldn't complain really!
As previously stated, the heat has caused the bulk of the problems with the moving timber mechanisms. The same can be said with certainty regarding the leatherwork. Most of the leather used inside an organ is very fine "split-skin" - a skin of leather literally "split" to provide a fine, delicate skin of leather which is necessary for ease of movement.
Above: a leather motor which has become brittle and split, resulting in a note not playing.
Above: A re-leathered reservoir
Obviously, when leather dries out it becomes very brittle and porous which causes no end of action faults (notes not playing, stops not working, etc) and, usually because of the tight space inside an organ, making a one off repair to one single note – St Josephs has over 200 individual note actions - can take up to four hours of work and even this can sometimes prove unsuccessful.
When the leatherwork of the organ bellows (wind chests) dries out the gussets (corner pieces) start to crack and wind leaks out which causes a loss in wind pressure and
you are then left with an organ without any "breath". St Joseph's organ has three sets of bellows: Main reservoir = 5ft x 3ft; Great reservoir = 4ft x 3ft; Swell reservoir = 4ft x 3ft.
The leather drawstop actions were re-leathered during the last phase of work – thus, the two drawstop machines are in good order (to re-leather a drawstop machine costs around £1k each as they are pretty small and easy to do – this is the only part of the organ which has been overhauled)
Again, when an organ is stripped out for major work it is always best, both financially and practically, to carry out such jobs such as re-electrification of actions, re-leathering of action mechanisms etc.
If we were to simply spend the money on the main faults listed at the top of the first page, it would only be a matter of time before we needed to spend money again and a great amount of time would be spent removing the actions we just had repaired in order for us to remove items such as the bellows or under-actions.
A rough side elevation showing the layout of a pipe organ
Black = Wind Reservoirs
Red = Electro-pneumatic under-actions
The arrows point out the Soundboards – see 1st diagram
I am aware that some money was spent on the organ a few years ago. Whilst there has been some re-leathering work carried out, very little else can be shown for the money which was spent. Sadly, it is my professional opinion that the previous organ builders took a lot of parish money and did not provide a very good service. The firm in question is a one-man band and are not recognised as a professional company by the Institute of British Organ Builders – a professional trade organisation recognised by all Christian denominations in the UK, which was set up to provide a guarantee to clients that member firms are indeed bona-fide companies and whose employees are qualified organ builders. Upon my appointment as organist I made enquiries with the company in question – without disclosing any of my professional experience – and was, quite literally, told a very tall story regarding the work they had supposedly carried out. Furthermore, the tuning was in an inexcusable state, especially as we had at least two tuning visits per year. I immediately removed the organ from the care of this firm and placed it into the hands of another company.
The Proposals:
The first proposal for consideration is: do we proceed with the re-building of the pipe organ?
I have received a quotation from an accredited organ building company for the restoration of the slider-soundboards, the replacing of the old electric action, the re-leathering of all moving action parts and some tonal improvements. The total cost for this work is £109k. All work is guaranteed for 25 years. In addition to this, it must be remembered that the organ still requires regular tuning/maintenance visits (3 per annum) which would cost around £1200 per year, which includes the servicing of the humidifier and oiling of the blower unit. If we were to proceed down this road, serious consideration must be given to the high level of heat in the church as this would only create similar problems within a short space of time. Furthermore, guarantees are not honoured if problems are caused by overheating.
The second proposal for consideration is: do we proceed with the purchase and installation of a digital organ?
I have approached Makin Organs – the market leaders for quality and reliability - with regards to providing us with a quotation for an instrument suitable for St Joseph's, taking into account the size of the church and our congregations, and the level of use it is likely to receive. The quotation came back at £60k +VAT.
In the meantime, the same company provided us with an organ for the purposes of demonstration (FOC). The demonstration organ is a very high quality instrument which provides the organist with every possible accessory and organ stop to be able to serve the liturgy extremely well. It ranges from an almost inaudible sound to that of a large parish church organ. It has 27 channels of external amplification - which is more about providing realistic pipe sound than overall volume – and provides a very rich and realistic tone. In my opinion, the demonstration organ has greatly added to the dignity of our masses. I have also noticed an increased volume in congregational singing, which is never a bad thing!
I recently made a visit to the Head Office of Makin Organs in Shaw, Lancashire where I met with the managing director. In brief, I told him that 60k was way over a realistic
budget for St Joseph's and asked what other options we could consider. After a long discussion, the MD presented me with the option to purchase the demonstration model which we currently have in St Joseph's. The demonstration organ is 4 years old and cost £75k to build from new. St Joseph's now has the option to purchase the demonstration model for £45k with a full 10 year parts and labour warranty – exactly the same warranty Makin Organs provide with brand new instruments. This price includes full installation in the organ gallery and tonal finishing (balancing the voicing of the instrument to the church).
It is my recommendation to purchase the demonstration organ for St Joseph's for the following reasons:
 An instrument worthy of the church
 Outstanding value for money (£75k instrument for £45k)
 The longevity of the instrument
 Annual saving on tuning and maintenance
 Suitability for the church and congregation
 Heating will not cause the digital organ any problems
 Highest quality of sound
 An organ highly likely to attract a new organist when I have to leave.
My reasons not to re-build the pipe organ:
 The organ is not a great instrument to warrant such a huge expense
 The organ is in very poor mechanical condition and would be too costly to re-build
 The heating system will always cause problems with the mechanical actions
 Annual maintenance costs
 The organ is tonally inefficient and requires re-modelling to suit the church at present.
Brother Paul Harris SDS 21st March 2012


Upon leaving school I served my time with David Wells Organ Builders of Liverpool. After a three year apprenticeship I was personally responsible for the tuning and maintenance of many instruments throughout the United Kingdom: Liverpool Cathedral, Chester Cathedral, Coventry Cathedral, Carlisle Cathedral, Manchester Cathedral, Alexandra Palace, and many parish churches. I have been involved with historic restorations of some of the country's oldest instruments and have worked on the re-building of instruments of all sizes. I also had a spell working for the world famous organ building company of Henry Willis & Son's who were responsible for building most of the country's cathedral organs.
I learnt to play the organ at the age of 12 and was taught at Liverpool Anglican Cathedral. Before joining the Salvatorians I was Director of Music of a large Anglican parish in Liverpool, responsible for the choir of 12 boys and some 16 adults. Alongside this, I was also the organist of my home Catholic parish for many years, playing for the Saturday vigil mass.

AnOrganCornucopia

I think what is important is to have these reports verified. In some cases, similar problems have been reported for reasons of politics. So it was at Newcastle City Hall (1929 H&H, 4/66) - the council insisted that the chests and soundboards were all warped and cracked as a result of water ingress and that this rendered the organ fit only for scrap. Mercifully, this and other attempts to get rid of the organ came to nothing and it remains in situ awaiting restoration. The chests and soundboards are fine, it just needs a thorough clean, pipework repairs and a complete releathering... there may be very simple reasons also for sticking sliders and problems with the magnets. That the magnets are old and made of bakelite is irrelevant - 99% of Compton magnets work fine to this day and they're made of bakelite and, in many cases, 70-80 years old. I've had Peter Hammond glance over that report and he suggested that, although he could not say with certainty unless he had inspected the organ, there might be a few simple fixes which could make a huge difference, including simply installing a humidifier - this could potentially give a significant new lease of life to the organ and give vastly better value for money than a toaster which will be toast 15 years from now...

4manual

I can verify that this organ is in EXTREME danger. Mr Harris has managed to get the removal and replacement of this organ approved by the parish council and work is to commence in the next few weeks.

David Drinkell

Whatever happens to it, can someone post the specification to NPOR, please?

revtonynewnham

I second that, David.

Every Blessing

Tony

4manual

Went over to the Church last night but the organ loft was locked.  >:(
The organ is to be scrapped this coming week.  :(

David Pinnegar

Hi!

This appears to be an act of wanton vandalism if the "scrapping" does not involve responsibly making it available for re-use.

Is there anyone who can be contacted for reliable information as to current intentions?

Can we bend anyone's ear?

Can anyone find out what the local paper is to go and send a reporter and take photographs of pipework being junked in a skip?

Has the Diocesan Church Furnishings Officer been contacted to see what local opportunities or needs there might be for reuse elsewhere?

Best wishes

David P

4manual

The local paper would be the Harrow observer. http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/.
The Parish priest is a Rev. Alexander McAllister... (020) 8427 1955 maybe he would be somebody to reason with. I'm afraid I don't know enough to argue for it myself.

Barrie Davis

Hi

This news is very sad indeed, I am sure the organ could have easily found another home. Who oversees buildings and fabric in the Catholic church or is it simply a parochial decision?

Barrie