Author Topic: Churches have a special asset formerly liabilities . . . their roofs!  (Read 8230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

David Pinnegar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Karma: +66/-3
    • View Profile
Hi!

By reason of predominently east-west orientations, churches have a particularly untapped resource . . . a south facing roof.

Were a group of people / churches to club together to buy pallets of 24 modules of solar panels
http://www.solarvisenergy.co.uk/solarPVTradePrices/solarPVModulePrices.asp
at just 58 pence per watt, large south facing roofs of churches could be a prime asset in generating electricity.

The Feed In Tariff halves yet again at the end of June but now with electricity prices heading through the 15p per kW hour, and expected to rocket higher in the future, churches could lease panel allocations to nearby consumers and make money by insulating people from higher costs in the future.

This would restore the interest of the heathen in places known to be the House of God.

Best wishes

David P


David Pinnegar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Karma: +66/-3
    • View Profile
French elections reportedly suggest need to take initiative
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 12:55:17 PM »
Hi!

The Times today reports that EDF is likely to be pressured into concentrating resources in France rather than building a new nuclear power station in England.

The result is that electricity will be in short supply, prices will go up, and tracker instruments with hand pumping will be in demand.

IKEA are covering their flat roofs with thin film solar panels which are currently starting to be available in a 2ftx4ft format, easily mounted between two simple rails without needing complex fixings, can be mounted horizontally on flat roofs, vertically on walls or on south slopes. Being brown they blend in with timbers and tiles. In strong sunlight they are half as efficient per unit area as conventional panels but in cloudy weather they are just as efficient. This means that they can produce background constant requirements without causing mains voltage spikes that multiple installations of efficient panels are starting to cause in dense areas. Per unit area they are only 15-30% of the cost of conventional panels, each 2ft x 4ft panel costing only £30. Rated at 55 watts nominal, they have a working voltage of around 70V.

Turning church roofs into such an investment worthy of IKEA now will insulate churches against rising costs and are capable of bringing significant benefits to local communities.

Best wishes

David P.

Barrie Davis

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
  • Karma: +37/-2
    • View Profile
Hi

St Andrews Netherton has just installed solar panels, it will take 11 years to recoup the costs but I am sure in the long term the benefits will be enormous.

Best wishes

Barrie

Contrabombarde

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Karma: +12/-0
    • View Profile
Re: French elections reportedly suggest need to take initiative
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
The result is that electricity will be in short supply, prices will go up, and tracker instruments with hand pumping will be in demand.

Tongue-in-cheek I have posited before that the organ building industry really has nothing to fear from the European Union declaring that if lead should be banned from any electric items, and organs are electric if only because they have a blower, then organs should stop having lead pipes. Apart from really enormous organs with detached consoles, there are few if any situations where either mechanical or pneumatic action can't suffice, even if it means dusting off the patents for Binn's adjustable pneumatic combination actions. And for really "up-yoursing" it to the EU, how about rebuilding the Royal Festival Hall organ (the restoration of which was threatened by the lead ban) as say a steam-powered (obviously cloal-burning for extra pollution!) tubular pneumatic action organ, with lead tubes running into the tens of miles probably.

On the subject of church roofs, nice idea, but many churches are listed buildings. One near me was recently successful in installing panels, and because of the slope of the roof and the crenallated wall the roof and panels are virtually invisible at street level. But the amount of aggro it provoked in the local community was amusing.

Janner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: French elections reportedly suggest need to take initiative
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 09:00:22 PM »
.......................
On the subject of church roofs, nice idea, but many churches are listed buildings. One near me was recently successful in installing panels, and because of the slope of the roof and the crenallated wall the roof and panels are virtually invisible at street level. But the amount of aggro it provoked in the local community was amusing.

Yes, an investigation into this a couple of years ago at our church concluded that the outlay would be over £20,000 and that it would take around nine years to break even. That was something we just could not contemplate, but it didn’t really matter. A casual mention of it to the church architect brought the response “No chance! This is a grade two listed building.”

Apparently the best situation is where there are two, or perhaps three, parallel roofs with valleys in between, which of course many churches have. The panels can then be fixed on the inner slopes where they are out of sight from the ground.

JBR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Churches have a special asset formerly liabilities . . . their roofs!
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 09:44:22 PM »
Hi

St Andrews Netherton has just installed solar panels, it will take 11 years to recoup the costs but I am sure in the long term the benefits will be enormous.

Best wishes

Barrie

How long can solar panels be expected to last before replacement is necessary?
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

Janner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Churches have a special asset formerly liabilities . . . their roofs!
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 08:01:10 AM »
……………
How long can solar panels be expected to last before replacement is necessary?

A very good and pertinent question. Have any been around long enough to find out?
 
I have seen estimates of around fourteen years or perhaps more, but are these based on proven facts obtained from trials on panels over that length of time, or are they merely semi-guesses based on much shorter term tests?

Even if correct, it means that the actual in-profit life of an installation would appear to be only around five years or so. Of course that is under present conditions. If the price of electricity rises more quickly than predicted, and the prices paid to small generators increase, then everything changes.

Another point is interest rate variation. If a church has £20,000 invested, the chances are that income from it is hardly anything at the moment, but over fifteen years or so that could also change and become a matter for consideration.

Then there are the concerns regarding the relative merits or demerits of different methods of fixing the panels to the roof…….

Quite a minefield really.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 08:04:51 AM by Janner »

MusingMuso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: +25/-2
    • View Profile
Re: French elections reportedly suggest need to take initiative
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 11:58:22 PM »

Tongue-in-cheek I have posited before that the organ building industry really has nothing to fear from the European Union declaring that if lead should be banned from any electric items, and organs are electric if only because they have a blower, then organs should stop having lead pipes. Apart from really enormous organs with detached consoles, there are few if any situations where either mechanical or pneumatic action can't suffice, even if it means dusting off the patents for Binn's adjustable pneumatic combination actions. And for really "up-yoursing" it to the EU, how about rebuilding the Royal Festival Hall organ (the restoration of which was threatened by the lead ban) as say a steam-powered (obviously cloal-burning for extra pollution!) tubular pneumatic action organ, with lead tubes running into the tens of miles probably.

On the subject of church roofs, nice idea, but many churches are listed buildings. One near me was recently successful in installing panels, and because of the slope of the roof and the crenallated wall the roof and panels are virtually invisible at street level. But the amount of aggro it provoked in the local community was amusing.

As I stated originally, when this WEE (Waste Electrical Equipment) directive first became law, and made all new electrical equipment comply with a reduction in lead content on environmental grounds, there was an obvious oversight at EU level. Like sensible Europeans, no-one even thought to take the matter of church-organs being covered by the WEE directive seriously, but when it reached the UK, certain officials (as usual), insisted on absolute compliance; possibly assuming that every organ was electronic, and probably totally ignorant of the fact that organ-pipes were made usinglead.

At the time, organ-builders, the RCO and other interested parties sought re-assurance and clarification on the matter, but I realised that there was an alternative path which might potentially halt this nonsense in its tracks, and went on the offensive. What I needed to find was a legal double-bind, or a contradiction which could act as a precedent,and it didn't take long to find it.

Basically, the EU as a governing body has various interests and responsibilities, and after a bit of research, it emerged that the funding for two new organs; the first of which was to be partially paid for by a grant from the EU regional development fund. This was the new cathedral organ at Magdeburg.  The second instrument was to be funded by an EU educational body, and built for a music academy in Poland.

Armed with this information, I wrote to the EU commissioners to point out that the EU was in danger of breaching its own legislation, and that the EU could be held acacountable to itself if these projects went ahead.  In fact, I said that I would personaly bring them to book if the matter wasn't resolved, which caused a flutter of e-mails sent to me from MEP's and two UK Ministers. As a result of my findings and the concerns of the EU organ lobby, questions were raised in the EU parliament at committee stage, and a statement was made to the effect that the directive did not apply to either new organs or restoration work, but whether this has ever been written into precise law, I am not sure.

I recall thinking about the implications of what would happen if the law was taken to the last letter, and I quite liked the idea of a pneumatic-action instrument with miles of lead tubing, powered by a static, oil burning steam engine. Then I thought about the same thing, but one which replaced all the lead tubing with digital electronics and a blower, powered from a generator driven off the steam engine. The latter would have been illegal, because like a power station, the steam engine and generator would then have been a remote power supply, into which the organ was plugged. Then I considered the hybrid approach, of steam-driven, mechanical feeders and electrical wind supply and action supplied by an alternator.....both simultaneously legal and illegal, but essentially unlawful, even though the amount of lead had been reduced substantially by way of eliminating the pneumatic tubing.

I came to the conclusion that the law is an ass, but not a mule. The WEE legislation is really there to protect our water-courses from lead-salt pollution seeping out of landfill sites, which is in all our interests as a matter of public health. I can tell you with some authority, that the amount of scrap electronic equipment destined for landfill is colossal, and since the WEE directive, there are companies which specialise in breaking up and re-cycling the plastic, glass and metal components of scrap electrical equipment. I can further tell you that substantial amounts of lead, copper and even gold are recovered in the process, and for some, it has become a profitable business. Just so long as we are allowed to have new pipe-organs, I would suggest that the WEE legislation has been an unqualified success.

Of course, should electricity become unaffordable, the solution is all around us......unemployed youths who would welcome a bit of cash. I've embarked on a treadmill design which doubles up as a secure unit for persistent young offenders, and
to which they could be sent by the courts...assuming that everyone involved would clear an enhanced CRB check and that the facility was clean, safe and met the requirements of human rights and prison legislation.

MM



Barrie Davis

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
  • Karma: +37/-2
    • View Profile
Re: Churches have a special asset formerly liabilities . . . their roofs!
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 10:27:44 AM »
Well done with your battle with the EU MM!!!
I do like your comments about a treadmill, it might do the offenders some good.

Barrie

JBR

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Churches have a special asset formerly liabilities . . . their roofs!
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 11:24:43 PM »
Congratulations.  Well done, MM.

Now could you PLEASE get us out of the EU?
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

 


Locations of visitors to this page

Organ Design


Latroba Holidays