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Ockbrook Moravian Church: Digital Replacement?

Started by shaundbrown, July 18, 2012, 12:43:19 PM

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shaundbrown

Hello all,

I'm looking for some advice/suggestions.

One of the churches, at which I regularly play, has resolved to replace its ageing pipe organ. It is not a C of E church, and needs no faculty to do this.

The congregation has agreed to seek a digital replacement to the current organ, to be housed inside the existing case.

We now need to consider desposing of the existing organ. We took the advice of a reputable organ builder (IBO approved for all categories), who said that the organ was not worth spending any money on, the action is very poor 1930s TP, and the pipe work is of very mixed pedigree, and has clearly been assembled from various sources. There are 2 18th century ranks (ex 4' and 2' principals), which have been unskillfully cut up into flutes, with very little character.

The NPOR listing can be found here:  http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N00030

My initial reaction is to have the pipework removed and sold/given to new homes, (excepting the Great Diapason, as this forms much of the facade), then the action dismantled, and the lead sold for scrap.

I am as sad as the next person to see a pipe organ removed, and replaced with a digital instrument, however, a pipe organ would be far beyond their means (the budget for the Digital replacement is max £20k). Any suggestions on how we might proceed in a better way would be gratefully recieved, however, please be realistic...

Shaun

David Pinnegar

#1
Dear Shaun

Oh dear - what a sad scene.

Moravian organs can be interesting indeed on account of their ancient sources and the 18th century pipes are an indication of this. Could they be restored?

TP organs present more of a challenge than tracker instruments but there are many examples referred to on this forum of pneumatic actions having significant longevity . . . and one wonders whether in 40 years time the next generation will be as happy with the decision to replace their pipes of which the current instrument demonstrates longevity by technology which most certainly will not have enured.

With respect to my own Makin which served Londonderry Cathedral from 1993 and was supplanted by a pipe organ eventually, the combination piston system has failed. In addition one stop has failed and is ciphering. No doubt we suffered a power surge or the like. I'm lucky that this is the only damage and no doubt with luck it can be rectified . . . but technology change is accelerating.

Lasting two decades without serious mishap is impressive, perhaps, but the widespread installation of solar panels has caused power networks to suffer high voltage when the sun shines, requiring supply voltages being reduced the rest of the time to guard against for such overvoltage conditions. Mains supply will be increasingly variable. Of course technology can adjust to this but increasingly we are being warned to expect power blackouts in coming decades.

"Not worth spending money on" may well take on a new perspective when such things are taken into account. The instrument rebuilt may well serve between 40, 80 or over 100 years before requiring much significant further attention. It may be possible to wind by hand powered bellows. . . . and power cuts will be irrelevant to music making.

Best wishes

David P

shaundbrown

Thank you for the response David,

I certainly think that the two 18th century ranks need to find a sensible home. In terms of restoration, I'm not sure, but I got the impression that they are beyond help...

In terms of the spend vs longevity debate, we are, unfortunately constrained by what the congregation feel able to spend at the moment. They are aware that the lifespan of a digital instrument is really around 20 years, that that it would need replacing then.

I suppose, the hope is that a small enough pipe instrument could be found is good enough condition to be a viable alternative, with a similar, managable budget.

matt h

Hi

What about the Margate II + P which is also being discussed on here (in another thread) at the moment?

Regards,
Matt.

David Pinnegar

Hi!

On account of a phone call this afternoon I have edited my post above - the website concerned had not communicated enquiries to the company. They must have lost a lot of business on account of that technical hitch.

Importantly however, are the additions to the posting with regard to supply of power . . .

An instrument based on pipes and blown by hand may be an important asset . . .

Best wishes

David P

revtonynewnham

Hi

I would suggest to the church that they look for a small redundant pipe organ that could be moved & restored if needed.  It might even be possible (just) to find something within the budget.

Also, point out that in 15-20 years they'll need to raise funds for another electronic, whilst a tracker pipe organ should not need major attention for around 50 years (except tuning, obviously!).

every Blessing

Tony

David Pinnegar

Quote from: revtonynewnham on July 18, 2012, 05:55:36 PMwhilst a tracker pipe organ should not need major attention for around 50 years (except tuning, obviously!).

Some pipe organs can be remarkably stable with tuning. If one dispenses with a reed stop, reeds and flues going in opposite directions on changes of temperature, cone tuned flue pipes can stay tuned together for years.

Best wishes

David P

ComptonNewbie

Which is just as well, as regular cone tuning can cause significant attrition to pipework.  Splits and collapsed feet are not nice.

David Drinkell

Yes, and once the mouth has collapsed from coning, no matter what is done it will go again as soon as the pipe is cone-tuned again.  There's a little neo-classical job in north east Essex (RC church - typical post Vat2 organ), which was originally cone-tuned.  They had omitted to thin the tops of the pipes to facilitate tuning, so it was a dreadful thing to tune and the mouths started to go within a few years.  The only remedy, carried out by a reputable local firm, was to slide the pipes, and there's been no problem since.

shaundbrown

Quick Update,

A final decision on this organ is to be made over the next few weeks.

Thank you for your comments about saving it, but really, this organ is not good. The optimum solution would be to get a good redundant instrument brought it, but this is likely to be beyond budget (£20k max).

As it looks like the organ will be removed, please could the forum advise as to the best way to do this? I would be keen to see parts of the organ taken for use in rebuilding other instruments. As an instrument entire, it just isn't good: there are far better instruments needing homes...

alistairmcc

Has the church found any suitable replacement pipe organs and the costs for restoration and installation? If a decision is going to be made in the next few weeks then that information will be needed rather than the common assumption "it is likely to be beyond budget".

I would agree that a much altered and pneumaticised instrument is not recommended. There are much better instruments which need homes and they can be done within the budget you mention. For example in July we took out a Blackett & Howden organ in Newcastle Sw 5, Gt 5, Ped 1 which was from a building of similar size to Ockbrook and was a fine instrument with all stops well voiced and one which could be rehoused with no alterations and minimal work save a new electric blower. Even restoring the soundboards & bellows which would have lasted another couple of decades might bring the cost to just over the budget. Installation with a thorough overhaul only, is going to be well within the budget.

I am going by a picture of the Ockbrook organ halfway down www.picturesofderby.co.uk/area_ockbrook%20page%202.htm
You may wish to investigate www.organ.dnet.co.uk/popco/redundancies.html where I recommend the church considers the Benson & Lewis organs. I will update it with the Blackett & Howden details and a couple more new ones.

Regarding scrapping the existing organ, the pipes will be useful to organ builders but generally they cannot afford the time and cost to get them. I would be interested but it would have to be in conjunction with something else in the area to make it worthwhile.

Alistair McCartney

David Drinkell

Try the website for Pipe Organ Preservation Company  www.organ.dnet.co.uk/popco/

They are good at sourcing redundant pipe organs, doing them up competently and rehousing them.  They might have, or be able to find, something fitting your requirements.  Their current list includes some tasty looking items, including a Lewis, a Lammermuir and an old Father Harrison.