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The evil of religious fundamentalists

Started by David Pinnegar, July 16, 2010, 01:05:42 PM

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revtonynewnham

Hi

Salvation is only through Christ - it's simple, but also profound.  But salvation is only the start of one's Christian walk.  The Bible quite clearly teaches that "all have sinned" - taking the step of faith to commit to Christ doesn't take away the temptation to sin.  That's why there's a need for confession (not necessarily to a priest, or even another person, but direct to God) is important.  (Note the Bible does encourage confession to each other).  Then there's all the lifestyle issues - trying (and usually failing) to live up to Jesus' example.

I find what is probably the earliest Christian creed interesting - simple, yet profound.  It's "Jesus is Lord" - see for example Romans 10:9 and 1 Corinthians 12:3.  Simple - yet consider what it means to accept someone as your Lord.  Incidentally, it IS possible to be sure of salvation - Rom. 10:9 again:-
"That if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."  Couple that with the other things I've said above.  Obviously, there is a danger of becoming "comfortable" and slipping away from the high standards that we are called to - hence the need for confession & repentance, which is (or should be) part of every communion service.

Every Blessing

Tony

Michael H

Karen Armstrong in more than one of her books has a lot to say about the dangers of fundamentalsm, including atheistic fundamentalism. I strongly recommend her writings.
And anyone who reads Richard Dawkins (that arch-atheistic fundamentalist) should also read counter arguments by such people as  Keith Ward. Don't you think that Dawkins writes so cleverly but lacks any wisdom?

Does anyone share my belief that it's about time we considered reincarnation? Reincarnation forms part of the deeper understanding of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and even Christianity (although it is officially denied by the church, of  course - but that's  a subject for another discussion) and it makes so much sense of those difficult issues that the Christian Church tries in vain to grapple with. David, you said somewhere that we come naked  to this world and leave in the same way; in one sense I agree with you but I also believe that we bring much with us in terms of karma (or baggage) from past lives and we take any more baggage with us to be sorted out hopefully in the next incarnation - our job is to try to get rid of our existing baggage and not to acquire any more.  I'm sure this all sounds heretical, but perhaps the Church could benefit form heretics rather than condemning them.

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 16, 2010, 01:05:42 PMSo when we read yesterday that Anglicans have allowed women to be Bishops in the Church ministering unto humankind and then we read that the Pope's Church has equated the ordination of Women as being as sinful as Child Abuse, we have to observe an organisation self promoted by men rather than anything to do with God.

The Vatican's response does seem somewhat disproportionate - but, on the other hand, the ordination of women has no Scriptural precedent. Read the Bible. It's full of incredible women, compassionate and strong. Christ knew some personally - his mother, his mother's cousin Elizabeth, Mary Magdalene, the sisters Mary and Martha... yet he saw fit to ordain none of them to his ministry. Some people have dismissed this as merely a product of circumstance, the world then being very much male-dominated, but I really don't believe that the Eternal Saviour would have been so stupid and blinkered.

This does not mean that women are in any way inferior to or less valuable than men: far from it. You will be familiar with the saying "behind every great man is a woman greater still"... women are incredibly valuable to the Christian ministry, and they do much valuable work. However, priestly ministry is not one of them... I have encountered a good many female clerics in the Church of England, and I am sad to report that only one of them was worth her salt. The rest left much to be desired in the way of spirituality, and were pushing an agenda of dumbing-down, political correctness and feminism. Seeing the news coverage a couple of years ago when the Synod in York voted to consecrate women as bishops, and the Alternative Episcopal Oversight was removed, a South-East London Archdeacon was called upon to commentate and discuss with one of the traditionalist wing. She was full of prejudice and vitriol, was the archetypal androgynous, butch lesbian, cared nothing for any cause or views but her own. A sad day for the CofE...

David Pinnegar

Quote from: Michael H on November 08, 2010, 08:22:37 PMDoes anyone share my belief that it's about time we considered reincarnation? Reincarnation forms part of the deeper understanding of Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and even Christianity (although it is officially denied by the church, of  course - but that's  a subject for another discussion) and it makes so much sense of those difficult issues that the Christian Church tries in vain to grapple with. David, you said somewhere that we come naked  to this world and leave in the same way; in one sense I agree with you but I also believe that we bring much with us in terms of karma (or baggage) from past lives and we take any more baggage with us to be sorted out hopefully in the next incarnation - our job is to try to get rid of our existing baggage and not to acquire any more. 

Hi!

I have a lot of sympathy with this and am influenced by Alice Bailey, a descendant of Benjamin Henry Latrobe, who went to India and found that Christianity and Buddhism were not in conflict and were mutually compatible. Another influence has also been the Parthenon Frieze which appears to show the First Judgment, entirely compatible with the Christian Last Judgment, and shows monotheism deriving from polytheism and identifying qualities which have to be eliminated from one's heart in order to achieve Nirvana, compatible with Buddhism.

What to achieve Nirvana? Elimination of desire, deceipt and hate from one's heart. Hardly anti-christian.

Best wishes

David P

revtonynewnham

Quote from: Michael H on November 08, 2010, 08:22:37 PM


Does anyone share my belief that it's about time we considered reincarnation?

Hi

Absolutely no evidence that it exists, and it's certainly not part of Christianity.

Every Blessing

Tony

revtonynewnham

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on November 08, 2010, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 16, 2010, 01:05:42 PMSo when we read yesterday that Anglicans have allowed women to be Bishops in the Church ministering unto humankind and then we read that the Pope's Church has equated the ordination of Women as being as sinful as Child Abuse, we have to observe an organisation self promoted by men rather than anything to do with God.

The Vatican's response does seem somewhat disproportionate - but, on the other hand, the ordination of women has no Scriptural precedent. Read the Bible.

Hi

I suggest you also read your Bible!  Firstly, all Christian believers are priests "and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father" Rev 1:6!  Agreed, God does call specific peolple to fulfil leadership roles in His church - but it's not necessarily exclusive.

Secondly, one of the roles of a church leader is to proclaim the word of God - i.e. to prophecy.  (Philip the evangelist) "had four unmarried daughters who prophesied." (Acts 21:9)

Thirdly, there's a female Apostle!  Rom 16:7 says "Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was."  Now, if you check the original Greek, you'll find that Junia" is actually "Junias" and that's a female name!

Fourthly, Philemon 1:1-3 hints that Apphia was possibly a church leader.  There is alos at least one similar possibility mentioned in Acts.

Finally, don't some sections of the Catholic church call Mary Magdalene "the apostle to the apostles"?  Certainly, that term is used in early Christian writings.  She is these days regarded by some as the patron of women preaching & ministry.

Hence, even in the Bible and church tradition there is plenty of evidence for women's ministry.  After all, human beings (both male & female) are made in God's image.

Every Blessing

Tony

David Pinnegar

Hi!

A friend visited and discussion moved to current religious issues. She came around to the commonly held view that we have to "defend" Christianity by promoting it to protect it from being outnumbered by immigrant religions.

I feel that this so much leads us into dangerous ground and causes the divisions, which certain men and groups of men have a vested interest in maintaining in terms of divide and rule . . . , to be increased and entrenched rather than broken down in the peace of God's vision.

Last night I had a parallel conversation with a lady at a village quiz night . . . in which I had to express how dangerous it is to personalise the Almighty. To regard God as a person is so very dangerous, God might give the illusion of behaving as a person, but the true God is not a person. Therefore to give God a name is so very dangerous - and it was for this reason that the name of God was unuttered.

It was this afternoon's conversation that led me to look up the group that was active and rather impressed me whilst at college many years ago . . . http://www.religioustolerance.org/bahai3.htm

Indeed it's for the reason of the religious intolerance (and associated hypocrisy in not loving neighbours as ourselves) of the priest responsible for Confirmation at his school that my youngest son refuses to be Confirmed. The priest concerned reduces the complexity of God to a simplicity in evangelisation which does not do justice to the intellect.

I fear that many think this of "fundamentalist" Christianity.

Best wishes

David P

revtonynewnham

Hi David

As you know, I'm basically an evangelical, and as such, I believe that we do need to promote the Christian faith.  However, that doesn't give us license to be derogatory about other faiths.  In my sermon last Sunday I mentioned a significant verse in the story of the riot in Ephesus (Acts 19:37).  There was no suggestion that Paul and his helpers had said anything negative about the Diana cult - and had certainly not pillaged the temple.  God gives us all free will - and that includes freedom to believe that Christianity is wrong.  As Christians, we need to emphasise the positives, rather than trying to denigrate other beliefs.  Also, we need to start where people are (and go where people are), rather than from where we want them to be.

There is room for a simple approach - as I've said before, salvation through faith in Christ IS simple - yet profound.  There is also a need for a more intellectual approach.  The basic rule of communication - and one that sadly many preachers seem to ignore, is the answer to the basic question "who am I talking to?"  A sermon for my elderly congregation here will be rather different to what I would preach in a university church (if I ever got the opportunity!)  That's not to say that my current congregation are "thick" - far from it, and a degree of intellectual challenge is often helpful and appreciated.

Paul also said "I am become all things to all men, so that by all means some might be saved".  His preaching, as summarized in Acts, shows clear differences in approach depending on his audience and their prior knowledge of Judaism & Christianity.

Every Blessing

Tony