Author Topic: Canterbury Cathedral  (Read 40974 times)

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Barrie Davis

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Canterbury Cathedral
« on: July 17, 2013, 12:20:42 PM »
Hi
I have read that the choir organ at Canterbury is to be rebuilt and returned to being a 4 manual, the post mentioned that Harrisons were going to carry out the work, but there is no mention of this on their website, Does any member have any more information about this scheme?

Best wishes

Barrie

Neil Crawford

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 02:36:39 PM »
a friend of the head voicer at H&H has confirmed they have the contract for a new organ(s), work to commence 2014
.

flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 10:07:17 PM »
Although this bit of news is at least 8 years old, I just found out yesterday from one source that says that the Quire Organ is to be enlarged, retaining much of the present pipework (most likely becoming a 4-manual).
And a 4-manual Nave Organ is planned as well (the 1979 Mander Nave Organ being moved to the East end).
I know that the Cathedral is a tall and long space, very possibly lending itself to acoustical difficulties, but two 4-manual instruments seems over-egging the pudding a bit.

It's a bit late now, but just for fun, I came up with a 6-division Quire stoplist of 99 ranks, based on the 1886 Fr. Willis and 1949 HW3 designs whilst retaining Green's ranks and adding a handful more of Green, either second-hand or re-produced.  The remainder of the list is in keeping with a large H&H.

For a new Nave Organ, I can see a smallish 3-manual, for which I haven't started a stoplist yet.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 12:10:11 AM by flared_ophicleide »

David Drinkell

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 08:12:57 AM »
It's not so much the size of the building, but the fact that, to all intents and purposes, it is two buildings.  The Quire, where the main organ is situated, is divided from the nave by the crossing, a substantial set of steps and the stone screen.  For nave services, when the choir sits on the steps, the main organ provides good support from behind, and the small nave organ seems to draw the sound down into the nave to support congregational singing.  However, in the particular circumstances, there is much to be said for having a cathedral-sized organ in the nave as a separate entity.

It will be good to have a Solo Organ restored to the Quire instrument.  What is there is of highest quality, but lacks the variety that a set of broad strings, harmonic flutes and corno di bassetto would add.  Allan Wicks  reckoned that scrapping the fourth manual had been a mistake.

pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 09:12:14 AM »
It's not so much the size of the building, but the fact that, to all intents and purposes, it is two buildings.  The Quire, where the main organ is situated, is divided from the nave by the crossing, a substantial set of steps and the stone screen.  For nave services, when the choir sits on the steps, the main organ provides good support from behind, and the small nave organ seems to draw the sound down into the nave to support congregational singing.  However, in the particular circumstances, there is much to be said for having a cathedral-sized organ in the nave as a separate entity.

It will be good to have a Solo Organ restored to the Quire instrument.  What is there is of highest quality, but lacks the variety that a set of broad strings, harmonic flutes and corno di bassetto would add.  Allan Wicks  reckoned that scrapping the fourth manual had been a mistake.

I would agree with David. This is a very long building which is, to all intents and purposes, divided in two. The long flight of stone steps leading up to the pulpitum screen (itself extremely substantial) make both a visual and an acoustical break roughly mid-way along the length of the building.

What a pity that some cathedral organists were (and are) only wise after the event. I have always regarded the scrapping of the superb Solo Organ at Canterbury Cathedral to be nothing less than disastrous. Now one is faced with accompanying a choir on what is effectively a large two-clavier organ. The present Choir Organ, nice as it may be for Baroque repertoire, is of little practical use in choral accompaniment, with the possible exception of the Cremona (although this stop is unenclosed, since the entire Choir Organ is placed on an open soundboard).

I would agree that a substantial Nave organ is required - although whether it needs to be of four divisions plus Pedal Organ might be open to question. It may be that two (or at most, three) good-sized departments, with a fairly hefty Pedal Organ would suffice. Unless, that is, it is the intention to allow the cathedral choir to sing from the Nave rather more frequently than is presently the case. If this is not the intention, I am not sure that a fourth clavier would be required. For recital purposes, a well designed three-clavier instrument should suffice.

One major problem would be the siting of a Nave organ. Canterbury Cathedral does not possess large empty triforia (such as that at Peterborough Cathedral). Instead, there is a series of blind arcades, each with a pierced middle 'light'. Therefore it is likely that any instrument would need to stand on the pavement of the Nave (or the Nave aisles). Even the instrument below would require a substantial amount of floor space (and ample height). It might be possible to divide the organ and place each half in corresponding bays of the Nave, with the casework projecting back into the Nave aisles. However, I suspect that when the cathedral authorities realise how much room would actually be required - and the likely visual impact on the present vista up the Nave and, particularly, the aisles, they may decide that perhaps a nice electronic substitute, with a few carefully hidden speakers would be satisfactory, in order to supply the Nave of this large cathedral with adequate organ tone.

What follows is a suggested scheme for a Nave organ for Canterbury Cathedral; and, no, I have not carried out an acoustical study, nor placed trial ranks on a voicing machine in the Nave. However, I have been consultant for a number of rebuilds and restorations on several instruments of varying sizes. And, whist certain consultants would ridicule the idea of 'armchair designers' and the drawing-up of schemes, nevertheless, the process often starts with a list of desired stops (with reference to an overall plan) - not with a set of scale diagrams, or the proposed dimensions of main and breakdown reservoirs.

PEDAL ORGAN

Sub Bourdon  (Ext.)  32
Contra Bass  (W; bearded)  16
Open Diapason  (M)  16
Violone  (W)  16
Bourdon  16
Octave  (M)  8
Violoncello  (M)  8
Stopped Flute  (Ext.)  8
Viola  (M; ext.)  4
Mixture  (15-19-22)  III
Contra Trombone  (W; ext.)  32
Bombarde  (M)  16
Trombone  (W)  16
Clarion  8
Shawm  4
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Solo to Pedal
Solo Octave to Pedal


COMBINATIONS

Pedal to Great Pistons
Great to Pedal Pistons
Pedal to Swell Pistons

Generals on Swell Foot Pistons


GREAT ORGAN

Double Open Diapason  (12 from Pedal)  16
Open Diapason I  8
Open Diapason  I  8
Stopped Diapason  8
Wald Flöte  8
Octave  4
Principal  4
Flûte Harmonique  4
Fifteenth  2
Full Mixture  (15-19-22-26-29)  V
Sharp Mixture  (22-26-29-33-36)  V
Contra Posaune  16
Posaune  8
Clarion  4
Reeds on Pedal
Swell to Great
Solo to Great


SWELL ORGAN

Double Diapason  (Std. W+M)  16
Open Diapason  8
Flauto Traverso  8
Viole de Gambe  8
Voix Célestes  (G8)  8
Geigen Principal  4
Suabe Flöte  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Hautboy  8
Tremulant
Double Trumpet  16
Cornopean  8
Clarion  4
Sub Octave
Unison Off
Octave


SOLO ORGAN
(Unenclosed)
Open Diapason  8
Flûte Harmonique  8
Rohr Flöte  8
Octave  4
Open Flute  4
Super Octave  2
Furniture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Sharp Mixture  (26-29-33-36)  IV
Cornet  (1-8-12-15-17: G20)  V
Cromorne  8
Tremulant  (Not to mixtures)
Tuba Magna  8
Trompette Harmonique  8
Clairon Harmonique  4
Reeds Sub Octave


Aside from a limited amount of extension and borrowing (as marked) in the Pedal Organ, all other ranks are complete, unless stated otherwise.

Without carrying out acoustical tests, it is difficult to specify wind pressures; however, I suggest the following as a reasonable guide:

PEDAL ORGAN 

Flues: 100mm. Reeds: 100mm (Shawm); 225mm  (Trombones) and 300mm (Bombarde and Clarion)


GREAT ORGAN

Flues: 85mm. Reeds: 175mm.

SWELL ORGAN

Flues:  90mm. Reeds: 90mm (Hautboy) and 180mm (chorus reeds).

SOLO ORGAN

Flues:  100mm. Reeds: 90mm (Cromorne); 300mm (Trompette and Clairon); 450mm (Tuba).

ACTION wind up to 225mm.

Detached draw-stop console, with electro-pneumatic action to keys and pedals. Solid-State combination system,
with sixteen divisional channels and ninety-nine general channels. Obscure* digital display and selector panels.
Channels individually lockable. No sequencer.


Balanced crescendo pedal to the Swell Organ, working a sixteen-stage engine.





* May be rendered so by drawing a small panel across the front of the displa
y.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 10:57:42 AM by pcnd5584 »
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pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 10:42:19 AM »
With the above (regarding perceived lack of floor space) in mind, I suggest the following alternative solution:

PEDAL ORGAN

Contra Bass  (12W, 18M; bearded)  16
Bourdon  16
Octave  (M)  8
Stopped Flute  (Ext.)  8
Super Octave  (Ext.)  4
Contra Bassoon  (W)  32*
Bombarde  16
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Solo to Pedal

* Lowest twelve notes are half-length.

COMBINATIONS

Pedal to Great Pistons
Great to Pedal Pistons
Pedal to Swell Pistons

Generals on Swell Foot Pistons


GREAT ORGAN

Bourdon  (12 from Pedal)  16
Open Diapason  8
Stopped Diapason  8
Principal  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Posaune  8
Swell to Great
Solo to Great


SWELL ORGAN

Open Diapason  8
Flauto Traverso  8
Viole de Gambe  8
Voix Célestes  (A10)  8
Principal  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (22-26-29-33)  IV
Hautboy  8
Tremulant
Double Trumpet  16
Cornopean  8
Clarion  4
Chorus reeds on Pedal
Sub Octave
Unison Off
Octave


SOLO ORGAN
(Unenclosed)
Open Diapason  8
Wald Flöte  8
Octave  4
Flûte Harmonique  4
Cornet  (1-8-12-15-17: G20)  V
Furniture  19-22-26-29-33-36)  VI
Cremona  8
Tremulant
Tuba Magna  8
Trompette Harmonique  8
Reeds Sub Octave

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 01:11:08 PM by pcnd5584 »
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flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 12:00:17 AM »
Pcnd, we seem to be on the same bus, and I like the second, smaller stoplist.  Without the Posaune, the Great looks identical to the present Nave Organ, and I see a bit of Lewis influence with the two big reeds in the Solo.

Though the Nave is a very large space, there seems to be very limited space for a large organ.  With no triforia, it would be difficult to avoid interrupting the continuous views down the aisles and I sense that the elders would want to maintain these views.  I guess this leaves the Narthex area. Build the organ in two parts, one half on one side, &c. 

As for the Quire, I've tried to find photos showing if there are openings at the west ends of the triforia. Or are there just blind walls between those and the Central Tower area? In other words, is there egress of sound from the triforia directly into the Nave aisles?

At the risk of appearing eccentric, I'll just go ahead & share my idea for an enlarged Quire organ.

Great Organ: Double Diapason 16, Gross Geigen 16,
1st Diapason 8, 2nd Diapason 8, 3rd Diapason 8, Claribel Flute 8, Stopped Diapason 8, Gamba 8,
1st Principal 4, 2nd Principal 4, Flute Harmonique 4, Twelfth, Fifteenth, Quartane 12.15,
Mixture 15.17.19.22,
Trombone 16, Tromba 8, Clarion 4

Swell Organ:  Double Diapason 16,
1st Diapason 8, 2nd Diapason 8, Flauto Traverso 8, Lieblich Gedact 8, Salicional 8, Vox Angelica 8,
Principal 4, Flute Triangulaire 4, Flageolet 2, Mixture 17.19.22, Sharp Mixture 15.19.22.26.29,
Double Trumpet 16, Trumpet 8, Hautboy 8, Vox Humana 8, Clarion 4

Choir Organ:  Bourdon 16,
Open Diapason 8, Hohl Flute 8, Stopped Diapason 8, Viola da Gamba 8, Dulciana 8,
Gemshorn 4, Stopped Flute 4, Nazard, Piccolo, Tierce, Mixture 22.26.29.33,
Corno di Bassetto 8

Solo Organ:  Contre Viole 16,
Viol d'Orchestre 8, Viole Celeste 8, Flute Harmonique 8,
Viole Octaviante 4, Concert Flute 4, Cornet des Violes 10.12.15,
Cor Anglais 16, Orchestral Oboe 8, Orchestral Clarinet 8, Fanfare Trumpet 8

Tuba Organ:  Diapason 8, Principal 4, Harmonics 12.15.17.21.22,
Contra Tuba 16, Tuba 8, Tuba Mirabilis 8, Tuba Clarion 4

Pedal Organ:  Double Diapason 32, Contra Violone 32
1st Diapason 16, 2nd Diapason 16, Bourdon 16, Violone 16, Echo Bourdon 16 (Choir), Geigen 16 (Gt.),
Octave Bass 8, Flute 8, Violoncello 8, Echo Flute 8 (Choir), Twelfth, Fifteenth, Octave Flute 4,
Mixture 15.17.19.22,
Double Ophicleide 32, Contra Posaune 32, Ophicleide 16, Posaune 16, Trumpet 16 (Swell),
Clarion 8, Trumpet 8 (Swell), (4' reed in the Pedal?)

All Green pipework retained and any redundant Green, or new pipes modeled after Green, added.
(Great 2nd Principal and Quartane, Choir Stopped Diapason and Stopped Flute, all Green or re-produced, to complement existing Green stops.

Since St. Bartholomew's the Great, Smithfield, is not including the 32' open metal in the forthcoming Schonstein and perhaps could be up for sale, I thought this could be used here as a Contra Violone, assuming its tone could carry suitably into the space.

The rest of the stops I compiled carefully, referring to the current Organs of Canterbury Cathedral (Toby Huitson), using Fr. Willis' and HW3's as a nucleus.  One or two Mander stops would remain. The other stops, some of which one should be able to identify as H&H.

The Tuba Organ is floating.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 12:15:58 AM by flared_ophicleide »

David Drinkell

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 04:11:13 AM »
Is there any point in attempting to recapture Samuel Green's sound from a nucleus of his pipes when the organ is to remain in the triforium?

As to the rest, it would involve extra soundboards and space is not unlimited.  The present organ is quite big enough for the Quire of the building and works very well.  The consensus seems to be that what it needs is more variety of Romantic voices (and the return of the 32 foot flue), although I would maintain that the lower registers of the present Choir Organ are more useful in quiet accompaniment than postings on this thread would suggest.  They have more in common with a Victorian Choir Organ than a neo-baroque Positif.

One could argue the case for some big fanfare reeds, but the place for them would not be in the Quire organ.

flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 11:52:47 PM »
I'll admit to being like the lad turned loose in a sweetshop. I knew that at least one of the triforia has organ in it, but wasn't sure if the other is occupied as well.
It goes back to what you said earlier about the Cathedral really being two buildings. I might add that in a situation like this, it seems that just designing a massive instrument and plopping it in place isn't that cut-and-dry here.

You would know much better than I would, David.

pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 05:44:17 PM »
Is there any point in attempting to recapture Samuel Green's sound from a nucleus of his pipes when the organ is to remain in the triforium?

As to the rest, it would involve extra soundboards and space is not unlimited.  The present organ is quite big enough for the Quire of the building and works very well.  The consensus seems to be that what it needs is more variety of Romantic voices (and the return of the 32 foot flue), although I would maintain that the lower registers of the present Choir Organ are more useful in quiet accompaniment than postings on this thread would suggest.  They have more in common with a Victorian Choir Organ than a neo-baroque Positif.

One could argue the case for some big fanfare reeds, but the place for them would not be in the Quire organ.

With regard to Samuel Green's pipe-work, it is likely that FHW treated it the same way that he did with Green's pipe-work at Wells Cathedral (in this case, he was specifically requested by Ouseley to leave it as it was*). I doubt that any of the present pipes at Canterbury still speak with Green's 'voice'. In any case, Green's pipe-work had a reputation as being somewhat gentle in tone, and was probably judged as inadequate to fill the enormous sonic space of Canterbury Cathedral, by FHW.

I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

David, with respect, I would still question your assertion regarding the present Choir Organ foundation stops (presumably 8ft. and 4ft.), to which you refer. The instrument in its previous incarnation possessed no less than five 8ft.  and two 4ft. flues; in addition, there were three further flue ranks on the former Solo Organ, together with a 4ft. Wald Flute. having heard (although not played) this instrument live, I am doubtful that a Stopped Diapason, a Dulciana, a Principal and a Chimney Flute are adequate compensation. Certainly colleagues who have played this instrument - and who have had to accompany choirs on it - have been unanimous in criticising the lack of quiet accompanimental voices, particularly on the Choir Organ. They also felt that, whilst they may not be representative of the neo-Baroque school, nevertheless, there was a perceived lack of subtlety and variety.



* In the monograph Organs and Organists of Wells Cathedral, by Roger Bowers, L.S. Colchester and Anthony Crossland, it is suggested that the letter which Ouseley wrote, stating that certain stops by Green 'ought not to be touched on any account', was never brought to Willis' attention. However, some other sources have suggested that FHW was fully aware of the letter - but chose to ignore it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 05:53:18 PM by pcnd5584 »
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Gwas_Bach

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2014, 07:51:39 PM »
I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

I assume he's referring to the choice of stops in his own hypothetical design, e. g. the  "Harmonics" on the Tuba Organ.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 10:42:38 AM by Gwas_Bach »

pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 12:09:03 AM »
I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

I assume he's referring to the choice of stops in his own hypothetical design, e. g. the  "Harmonics" on the Swell.

Well, on the Tuba Organ, to be strictly accurate. However, I do see your point. I had mis-read the meaning (or context) of the sentence. There are certain influences traceable to Arthur Harrison in the scheme as proposed by flared_ophicleide.

However, as far as I know, Arthur Harrison only ever used the following compositions for his 'Harmonics' compound stops:

17-19-flat 21-22 (most usually)

10-17-19-flat 21-22 (Ely Cathedral, for example)

10-15-17-19-flat 21-22  (Royal Albert Hall: isolated example)

The nearest match for the example by flared_ophicleide, is that on the Bombard section of the Solo Organ of the instrument in the Royal Albert Hall. In this stop, a nineteenth is substituted for the flat twenty-first, and the stop is named 'Sesquialtera'.

With regard to the scheme by flared-ophicleide, whilst there is much that makes sense, I should wish for a stronger 2ft. stop on the Choir Organ. I dislike Piccolos - partly due to the fact that every example which I have tried, seems to be unsteady in wind (even that on the Solo Organ at Exeter Cathedral). In addition, this stop would be unlikely to form a satisfactory bridge between the Choir foundations (even the 4ft. stop is presumably to be of inverted conical construction and therefore a hybrid), and the four-rank Mixture.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 12:18:03 AM by pcnd5584 »
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flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 12:27:33 AM »
I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

I assume he's referring to the choice of stops in his own hypothetical design, e. g. the  "Harmonics" on the Swell.

You are correct, Gwas.  As mentioned at the beginning of this thread, and in a similar thread on the Mander discussions, the Harrisons are to carry out this project, which is why I introduced their influence to this stoplist, which I believe I should pare down for posterity.  Such an instrument may well be quite audible from the Nave, but the poor individuals in the eastern half of the Cathedral might be seen running for their lives out the nearest doors.

Again,  an interesting and healthy exercise for the mind regarding acoustical analysis...

David Drinkell

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 05:35:34 AM »
David, with respect, I would still question your assertion regarding the present Choir Organ foundation stops (presumably 8ft. and 4ft.), to which you refer. The instrument in its previous incarnation possessed no less than five 8ft.  and two 4ft. flues; in addition, there were three further flue ranks on the former Solo Organ, together with a 4ft. Wald Flute. having heard (although not played) this instrument live, I am doubtful that a Stopped Diapason, a Dulciana, a Principal and a Chimney Flute are adequate compensation. Certainly colleagues who have played this instrument - and who have had to accompany choirs on it - have been unanimous in criticising the lack of quiet accompanimental voices, particularly on the Choir Organ. They also felt that, whilst they may not be representative of the neo-Baroque school, nevertheless, there was a perceived lack of subtlety and variety.[/font]

I don't think we have a deep disagreement here.  I remember the organ pre-Mander, with the larger palette of 8 and 4' stops on the Choir Organ.  My impression was that, up there in the triforium, they lacked the opportunity to provide as much subtlety as one might have expected.  I think that the present Choir Organ foundations are adequate for the task in hand, in the same way that those on a typical Father Willis Choir Organ would be, but that an organ such as this needs to be more than  adequate.  Thus,  there is a need for an enclosed Solo Organ with at least a pair of strings, a couple of flutes, a corno di bassetto and perhaps an orchestral oboe. 

The old organ had a full set of octave couplers, too (although controlled by draw-stops, which made them less use than if controlled by tablets above the top manual), and that increased the flexibility very much.

But I would say that, wouldn't I? :)

pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 07:51:35 AM »
David, with respect, I would still question your assertion regarding the present Choir Organ foundation stops (presumably 8ft. and 4ft.), to which you refer. The instrument in its previous incarnation possessed no less than five 8ft.  and two 4ft. flues; in addition, there were three further flue ranks on the former Solo Organ, together with a 4ft. Wald Flute. having heard (although not played) this instrument live, I am doubtful that a Stopped Diapason, a Dulciana, a Principal and a Chimney Flute are adequate compensation. Certainly colleagues who have played this instrument - and who have had to accompany choirs on it - have been unanimous in criticising the lack of quiet accompanimental voices, particularly on the Choir Organ. They also felt that, whilst they may not be representative of the neo-Baroque school, nevertheless, there was a perceived lack of subtlety and variety.[/font]

I don't think we have a deep disagreement here.  I remember the organ pre-Mander, with the larger palette of 8 and 4' stops on the Choir Organ.  My impression was that, up there in the triforium, they lacked the opportunity to provide as much subtlety as one might have expected.  I think that the present Choir Organ foundations are adequate for the task in hand, in the same way that those on a typical Father Willis Choir Organ would be, but that an organ such as this needs to be more than  adequate.  Thus,  there is a need for an enclosed Solo Organ with at least a pair of strings, a couple of flutes, a corno di bassetto and perhaps an orchestral oboe. 

The old organ had a full set of octave couplers, too (although controlled by draw-stops, which made them less use than if controlled by tablets above the top manual), and that increased the flexibility very much.

But I would say that, wouldn't I? :)

Ha - indeed! (Although we shall disagree forever about the perceived usefulness of rocking tablets above the fourth clavier....)

For the record, can you recall what the Sylvestrina sounded like - or how effective the Choir mutations were, particularly in combination with the rare (for HWIII0 1ft, stop (Ocravin)?

I would certainly agree regarding the additions, though. Perhaps something along the lines of the present Solo Organ at Salisbury Cathedral.* The strings there are perhaps the perfect Solo strings - Arthur Harrison's were often too acidic and scratchy.



* I regard this as a superb instrument - although I heartily wish that HWIII had provided one of his Grand Chorus (15-19-22-26-29) stops on the G.O., here. This would help the instrument to make a better impact in the long Nave. It would also provide a sorely needed alternative to the wretched tierce mixtures.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:54:54 AM by pcnd5584 »
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Robin Stalker

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 12:49:46 PM »
It will be interesting to see how this project is tackled: whether the main organ is reconstructed first, or the new Nave organ arrives first.

I imagine a formal announcement cannot be too far away.

Regarding the comments on the choir division, my observation is that the current specification is (probably) more useful for repertoire and congregational accompaniment rather than the day to day accompaniment of the choir. Which is preferable,  is open to almost endless debate.

Whilst I think the current organ has pretty much all the bases covered, a broadening of the palette will, I suspect, be welcome.

flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2014, 10:46:09 PM »
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

pcnd5584

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2014, 01:24:20 PM »
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

I should have thought that the opposite would be the case. I still cannot imagine where a Nave organ would be placed - unless Klais produce another of their 'hanging' instruments (c.f. Cologne Cathedral Nave organ).
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JBR

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2014, 11:08:14 PM »
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

I should have thought that the opposite would be the case. I still cannot imagine where a Nave organ would be placed - unless Klais produce another of their 'hanging' instruments (c.f. Cologne Cathedral Nave organ).

Or, horror of horrors, an electronic substitute with inconspicuous speakers!   ::)

(It has happened before.)
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flared_ophicleide

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Re: Canterbury Cathedral
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 02:36:44 AM »
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

Here, I'm quoting my own.
As my excitement - stemming from hearing somebody mentioning a supposed 5-manual organ being installed - was about to peter out, I wrote the above quoted, which I now look upon as babbling.  If anybody here sees meet, disregard the stoplist I posted earlier in this thread.  After thinking about it and reading a few comments about it, I think it's a result of vanity.  Here's one reason why:

I found a photo taken from the ambulatory near Coligny's Tomb looking toward the Nave.  The Norman vaulting is wider than the first Gothic arch in view, which in turn is as wide as the Nave.  This means that on either side of the Gothic arch, there is a solid wall.  I would call these acoustic baffles, which would tend to contain most of the sound to the Norman half; therefore, reconstructing the present organ into another Durham Cathedral organ would be a wasted effort.  Like David D. said, present organ is big enough for the Quire.

Another thing I agree with David on (assuming I properly understood), is a Solo, with a pair of strings, a couple of flutes, C. di B., Orch. Oboe, should be added.

I, like several others, believe a 32' open should be installed, and my own idea: just one stop. An Open Diapason on the Choir.

This would be a total of eight ranks. Seven, if the 32' is merely an extension.

Regarding the Nave....  This could be problematic due to the limited possibilities of placing even a modest 4-manual therein.  I have to say, Dr. Chris Batchelor, Mark Venning, and any others who have final say in a design, have an interesting dilemma to sort out here.

And whatever remains of the 4 million quid, thereafter, can be put toward building maintenance and any outstanding broken items.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 09:35:31 PM by flared_ophicleide »

 


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