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Yet another 2 manual + P , on ebay

Started by Holditch, September 05, 2010, 12:33:11 AM

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Holditch

Dubois is driving me mad! must practice practice practice

dragonser

I was just going to post about this, ( item number 160476915241 ) but see that you have already beat me to it.
there can't be many pipe organs on the Isle of Wight ?
I'm always sorry to read things like
"It is now rarely used and taking up valuable space in the building"

regards Peter B

Holditch

The lack of use, possible due to lack of competent or even non competent organist

Worship groups are great, but for them to completely replace organs is somewhat tragic
Dubois is driving me mad! must practice practice practice

David Pinnegar

Hi!

Thanks for posting this.

I have written to the seller as follows:
QuoteHi!

This has been picked up by www.organmatters.co.uk - can you give a list of the stops?

As webmaster of Organ Matters, of course we are giving this listing publicity to help you to shift it, but Forster and Andrews were a very respectable organ builder and it is VERY short sighted of you to be getting rid of a worthy and competant pipe organ which will be substantially operable in a century's time.

We are living on the edge of a cultural precipice of unprecedented loss, and with the loss of organs and the rise of Stephen Hawkins, the invisible, all powerful and omnipresent will be lost too. So please decide to reconsider your decision to scrap this worthy instrument. It's for this reason why I have put the King of Instruments onto the concert repertoire - search YouTube "Hugh Potton Reubke". No "worship group" can inspire the thoughts of the Divine that that composer reaches with this instrument.

Please post this on the listing.

Best wishes

David P

Best wishes

David P

Holditch

Dubois is driving me mad! must practice practice practice

Jonathan Lane

Yet again another organ that we would happily take if we had the storage space.  Our current storage is full and in Surrey with business in Poole, but as I say, if we had lots of space many of these organs would end up in oour storage I suspect!

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: David Pinnegar on September 05, 2010, 03:45:54 AM
Hi!

Thanks for posting this.

I have written to the seller as follows:
QuoteHi!

This has been picked up by www.organmatters.co.uk - can you give a list of the stops?

As webmaster of Organ Matters, of course we are giving this listing publicity to help you to shift it, but Forster and Andrews were a very respectable organ builder and it is VERY short sighted of you to be getting rid of a worthy and competant pipe organ which will be substantially operable in a century's time.

We are living on the edge of a cultural precipice of unprecedented loss, and with the loss of organs and the rise of Stephen Hawkins, the invisible, all powerful and omnipresent will be lost too. So please decide to reconsider your decision to scrap this worthy instrument. It's for this reason why I have put the King of Instruments onto the concert repertoire - search YouTube "Hugh Potton Reubke". No "worship group" can inspire the thoughts of the Divine that that composer reaches with this instrument.

Please post this on the listing.

Best wishes

David P

Best wishes

David P

Don't you mean Stephen Hawking? =P

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on September 06, 2010, 05:12:36 AM
Yet again another organ that we would happily take if we had the storage space.  Our current storage is full and in Surrey with business in Poole, but as I say, if we had lots of space many of these organs would end up in our storage I suspect!

Try and borrow an aircraft hangar somewhere? I'm sure Aces High at Dunsfold (of Top Gear fame) could offer you some space, they've got more hangarage than most airlines.

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: Holditch on September 05, 2010, 02:37:54 AM
The lack of use, possible due to lack of competent or even non competent organist

Worship groups are great, but for them to completely replace organs is somewhat tragic

Worship groups are great? Only in the minds of middle-aged wannabe-trendies. The fact that they can't cope with is that today's youth isn't interested in all that crap, they want full traditional bells and smells, BCP in the CofE, Latin in the RCC, Plainsong, etc. Before you ask me how I know, I am one. I'm only just 19 and I'm absolutely sick of the worshippery rhymes both Anglican and Catholic church hierarchies seem determined to ram down our throats. Death to Paul Inwood and Bernadette Farrell!

Jonathan Lane

Well actually we have a worship band here, with mainly teenagers involved, aged 15-18.  They are extremely good, led by a 15 year old singer/guitarist.  They want modern worship songs, not the Bernadette O'Farrell type stuff, but Matt Redman, Soul Survivor and the like.  They are as I say extremely good, and a very positive influence musically on the church.  The choir and organ at the early service are very traditional, which is also fine, but the service the band plays at as grown from an average of 15 to average of 65 in the nine months we have lived here.  As a professional organist and now organ builder, who has held posts in a number of major parish churches and one cathedral I am wholeheartedly behind the band.

Jonathan Lane

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on September 07, 2010, 08:02:04 AM
Quote from: Jonathan Lane on September 06, 2010, 05:12:36 AM
Yet again another organ that we would happily take if we had the storage space.  Our current storage is full and in Surrey with business in Poole, but as I say, if we had lots of space many of these organs would end up in our storage I suspect!

Try and borrow an aircraft hangar somewhere? I'm sure Aces High at Dunsfold (of Top Gear fame) could offer you some space, they've got more hangarage than most airlines.

Unfortunately nothing comes free, most people will charge several pounds per square foot for anything they have, so anything of any valuable size would be in excess of £40k per year.  This is not viable for us to 'save' organs, even though we may eventually be able to sell them on.  We would need to sell on three a year just to pay for the storage space.  Also Dunsfold is far too far away, our current storage is in Cranleigh, but I need something nearer Poole.  However, if we had a decent amount of space, we could save a good number of complete organs and much good pipework which at present is either going to scrap or overseas.  We get offered at least one organ a week and sometimes many more, for very little money (our time to remove costs quite a bit though).  At least half of these have some historic or tonal merit.

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on September 07, 2010, 02:29:15 PM
Well actually we have a worship band here, with mainly teenagers involved, aged 15-18.  They are extremely good, led by a 15 year old singer/guitarist.  They want modern worship songs, not the Bernadette O'Farrell type stuff, but Matt Redman, Soul Survivor and the like.  They are as I say extremely good, and a very positive influence musically on the church.  The choir and organ at the early service are very traditional, which is also fine, but the service the band plays at as grown from an average of 15 to average of 65 in the nine months we have lived here.  As a professional organist and now organ builder, who has held posts in a number of major parish churches and one cathedral I am wholeheartedly behind the band.

Ye Gods, even worse. Pass the sickbag... sadly, that kind of thing isn't going to provide more than a short-term boost to congregation numbers. Sadly? What am I saying? Thank God, more like. That kind of stuff is a poisonous disease... there is far more to be gained by pushing in the other direction, toward great solemnity. You go into a major university town, find a well-known church/cathedral doing BCP (or, if RC, Latin) with bells and smells, you'll find the congregation full of youngsters. In the Catholic church, mainstream seminaries are closing down almost by the week, while the Tridentinist ones are having to turn away would-be seminarians because they're full up...

David Pinnegar

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on September 09, 2010, 09:22:14 PM
Ye Gods

Hey! This is great news! Organs being imported into pagan polytheistic festivals?

QuotePass the sickbag... sadly, that kind of thing isn't going to provide more than a short-term boost to congregation numbers.

Yes - I'm not sure that my stomach could tolerate it either, but at least it's bringing young people into touch with the texts that teach "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "turn the other cheek" rather than "burn the Koran" which is neither loving one's neighbour nor turning the other cheek.

Best wishes

David P

NonPlayingAnorak

Quote from: David Pinnegar on September 09, 2010, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on September 09, 2010, 09:22:14 PM
Ye Gods

Hey! This is great news! Organs being imported into pagan polytheistic festivals?

QuotePass the sickbag... sadly, that kind of thing isn't going to provide more than a short-term boost to congregation numbers.

Yes - I'm not sure that my stomach could tolerate it either, but at least it's bringing young people into touch with the texts that teach "love thy neighbour as thyself" and "turn the other cheek" rather than "burn the Koran" which is neither loving one's neighbour nor turning the other cheek.

Best wishes

David P

My father's Catholic university chaplain damned this evangelical brand of churchmanship as "spiritual masturbation"... says it all, really. This great presumption that you are "saved". The self-reassuring brainwashing masquerading as spiritual release. I have no time for it, and I believe it has no legitimate place in this world.

Holditch

I think this post may have strayed slightly from the original thread, but it is interesting.

I am one of only two organists within a group of four churches in south Manchester. The congregations have been dwindling at most of the churches and unfortunately we are about to lose two of the organs, the first as one of the churches has now closed (the average attendance was less than 10) and the second because of the reordering of the church (again average attendance 10 to 20).

Now may I add the radical view that if worship groups, or basically any other form of musicianship had been introduced along side the usual pipe organist and so involving more of the youngsters that the church is always trying to attract, then these churches would not be closing or having to radically alter (so losing their wonderful pipe organs). When I talk about youngsters I mean from the age dot!

The church within the group that appears to be flourishing is the one that has involved the youngsters and does now have a worship band. This church due to swelling of the congregation has managed to plough a considerable amount of money, which is definitely not plentiful in this area of south Manchester, into the restoration of the pipe organ. The music is not especially evangelical but just modern, and for your information not my cup of tea but yet I am just one person!

My point is that whatever our opinions of what type of music should be played on a Sunday morning service and on what instrument, surely we need to cater for all ages, and also for all types of music. As long as we decide to not forget where we have come from, i.e. not reject or forget pipe organs, then the two forms of music can work together and in fact help the continued life of the church so saving pipe organs from redundancy.

For your information here is the npor listing for the church which has just closed

Quite sad isn't it!

http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N10804

Just my opinion anyway

Marc
Dubois is driving me mad! must practice practice practice

Jonathan Lane

#15
Quote from: Holditch on September 10, 2010, 01:56:32 AM
I think this post may have strayed slightly from the original thread, but it is interesting.

I am one of only two organists within a group of four churches in south Manchester. The congregations have been dwindling at most of the churches and unfortunately we are about to lose two of the organs, the first as one of the churches has now closed (the average attendance was less than 10) and the second because of the reordering of the church (again average attendance 10 to 20).

Now may I add the radical view that if worship groups, or basically any other form of musicianship had been introduced along side the usual pipe organist and so involving more of the youngsters that the church is always trying to attract, then these churches would not be closing or having to radically alter (so losing their wonderful pipe organs). When I talk about youngsters I mean from the age dot!

The church within the group that appears to be flourishing is the one that has involved the youngsters and does now have a worship band. This church due to swelling of the congregation has managed to plough a considerable amount of money, which is definitely not plentiful in this area of south Manchester, into the restoration of the pipe organ. The music is not especially evangelical but just modern, and for your information not my cup of tea but yet I am just one person!

My point is that whatever our opinions of what type of music should be played on a Sunday morning service and on what instrument, surely we need to cater for all ages, and also for all types of music. As long as we decide to not forget where we have come from, i.e. not reject or forget pipe organs, then the two forms of music can work together and in fact help the continued life of the church so saving pipe organs from redundancy.

For your information here is the npor listing for the church which has just closed

Quite sad isn't it!

http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N10804

Just my opinion anyway

Marc

Hear, hear!  Marc, I agree totally.  Our colleague sadly thinks his way is the only way, and as I made it quite clear I think, I favour organs and choirs, but the worship band has brought young people in, and has meant the church has a congregation under 70!  The earlier service, traditional parish communion generally has no young people, in fact, at 46 I'm one of the youngest members there.  More important is that why do any of us have the right to ram our own style of worship down anyone elses throat.  There is room for all and each person has the choice to attend or not.  The modern service is growing week on week, the traditional one is declining week on week.  I'm not sure where our colleague has found these churches with bells and smells that are thriving and filled with young people, but in my professional musical role I have visited many churches, week in week out, across the UK, and have very rarely seen it.  He refers to university towns, a few hundred churches/chapels, what about the hundreds of thousands of other churches in the country that are not in university towns, or not near to them.  As an organbuilder, professional organist and former Master of the Choristers in a UK cathedral I find it appalling that someone spouts the same bogotted approach as the Florida pastor.  Tolerance is essential in this world.  It is essential that those who like worship bands tolerate traditional music, and all too often they don't (incidentally our teenagers do, but it isn't rammed down their throat), and that traditionalists tolerate the other viewpoint.  I am a Christian, and I know some here aren't.  I accept their views about the existence of God and his son Jesus Christ, but I believe I have been 'saved' by him.  That is my personal choice, as it is anyone elses to choose theirs, thats why God gave us free will.  I have had quite a rant on this subject now, so plan to refrain from further comment.  However, I just feel sad that one person's views can be so narrow minded as to exclude the thought that other people might have different tastes.

Jonathan

NonPlayingAnorak

Clearly I've opened a bigger can of worms than I had intended, but I would like to highlight one line from the Creed. "He will come again to judge the living and the dead", basically. We all face judgment. As a Roman Catholic, I believe it is extremely presumptuous for anyone to claim to be 'saved'! We shape our future, both in this world and the next, it is down to how we live our lives in what way we end up being judged. Just presuming we're saved and then doing whatever could be the formation of damnation (incidentally the title of a heavy metal album I'm enjoying at the moment - my tastes in secular music are much wider than my tastes in church music!).

I would also like to highlight the fact that modern-rite seminaries are closing down by the week while Tridentinist ones are full to overflowing and are having to expand... my own feelings on the more evangelical side of mainstream Christianity are hardly comparable to those of the Floridian pastor - there's a big difference between viewing a particular type of churchmanship as being a gross misinterpretation of Scripture and doctrine and viewing the entirety of Islam as hateful and violent. I'm sorry to have thus offended Mr Lane, and it's certainly fair to say he's a hang sight older and more experienced than I am!