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Coming together . . .

Started by David Pinnegar, November 15, 2013, 11:25:20 PM

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David Pinnegar


Perhaps this thread might be on first sight a strange place to be on an organ forum. But as will become clear, organs and churches have a valuable part to play in bringing people together, and bringing people together in understanding, and this will turn out to be essential for any part of the human race to survive.

This might seem a bold assertion.

There are many waiting for Jesus' return from the clouds. There are many waiting for extraterrestrials to arrive from space, for comets such as Ison to come out of the blue and wipe out all evil. Whilst the texts tell us that we cannot know the time, my personal assertion is that people looking for the external force are looking in the wrong place and that there is an elephant in the room to which we're only just awakening.

One might wonder, upon the assertion that a cometry wipeout is going to wipe away the evil ones, exactly what the result might be. . . ? Certain religious denominations which appear perhaps to be more self righteous than others encourage people to consider themselves among the "saved" and others to prepare with stocks of food and survival kit, including weapons. So the assumed cometry wipeout will wipe away evil? And the "saved" who have prepared will kill with guns? Sorry if you might be inclined to disagree, but such mentality doesn't seem to me to be of the nature that Jesus Christ would be teaching about . . .

We are reminded in organ building where instruments have retained their bellows even despite the installation of an electric blower, that independence from power cuts is possible. . .  and here lies the sleeping elephant. is a wake-up call and warning of something much more real and relevant than a lump of rock called Ison or Nibiru or the visitation of an intergalactic spaceship coming out of the clouds . . . . The return of Jesus Christ is that of the spirit of God coming out of the clouds of our minds . . . and the catalyst for this is the arising consciousness of having started to burn through the last drops of oil that have given us such an easy, arguably comparatively lazy, life for the past century. We don't have to keep bees, collect wax, melt it with a string to make a candle and make fire to light it - we just flick a switch and have taken this for granted.

In seven years time, it's going to be patently apparent that life will never be the same again. At that time it will be seven years too late to prepare.

Now is the time, metaphorically in the words of which we are all aware, to put oil in our lamps rather than to be foolish virgins.

Elsewhere I have talked about an interpretation of the feeding of the 4000 and 5000 in terms that I'm aware is offensive to many. The reason why I stick my neck out is that psychologically it is easier for us to want a magickman to do things we can't do, for a magick spaceship to come and rescue us, and more difficult to accept an interpretation in which we are taught to have taken responsibility for each other, to share the resources we have rather than expect Big Daddy to come down and give us yet more.

The symbolism of Father Christmas is not what we receive as children, but what we give when we grow up each to be Father Christmasses ourselves and as our fathers expect us to grow up to be.

This is the time of the growing up of the human race, where through shortages we survive by sharing the different talents that we have and through mutual support of each other, our neighbours, and even our neighbours across waters and across the world. *

The problems we face with typhoons, famines, floods and fires are now a world issue for humanity for humanity to solve and which can be solved by the spirit of Jesus Christ descending out of the clouds of our higher minds.

It is the time, however, to open our minds not only to the preparations we might be doing in anticipation of famine and shortages and how we can share what we have but also to the magic of the universe which may yet save our civilisation releasing us from oil and the tyrannies of the oil based economy. outlines some exciting devices, for instance, which rely on the elimination of the back emf to which all those familiar with solenoids and organ magnets are familiar. Who has actually done the experiment to construct a Thane's transformer and see what happens?

Other devices described on the website are interesting. Mythically people speak of "cold" energy, a manifestation of a cold blue flame.

Anyone who has experienced a PET scan based on Positron Emission Tomography knows that antimatter exists and can be useful. Which of our grandparents ever dreamt that the human race would ever come into close encounters with antimatter? But that's exactly what positrons are - anti-electrons. As e=mc2 then if there is antimatter, there is also antienergy and this may well power things just as well as energy. This would make sense if what we perceive to be energy is the square of some more subtle concept. To the casual reader, this might appear a load of conjectural nonsense but at the very heart of physics we have two theories, Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity which don't agree. For this reason we can expect some experimental observations beyond the explanation of either theory and, if Quantum Mechanics is to be taken seriously, the whole of emptiness is full of energy and matter which creates and annihilates itself so fast and on such a small scale we cannot see it . . .

In the bookshop of Worth Abbey numerous books explore the deeper implications of science and religion. A browse through these a few weeks ago summed up the commonality of the perception of the miracle:

"In the beginning, nothing exploded and produced everything" . . .

If now we fail to examine what "Khuda", pronounced "h(g)odha" has given us, in all its meanings and implications, the human race will be unworthy of its own survival.

Best wishes

David P

* Luke 12:16-21

Paul Duffy

I think power shortages are about to become a serious problem in Britain. The 'elephant in the room' seems to be immigration. We just don't know how many people are going to come here next year. The LibDem attitude seems to be: "lets hope for the best, perhaps these people won't come here". Everyone misses the point on immigration: it's either about people taking British jobs and school places or even about culture change. But no-one seems to ask: "where are we going to put them all?". Even with the existing housing the power stations are struggling with demand, so that's why the Government have decided on the bedroom tax/spare room subsidy as a short term fix. They know their hand is forced by European rules, but they equally realise that embarking on a massive house building program without adequate power supply is sheer lunacy.

The American TV series 'Revolution' is perhaps an interesting foretaste of a possible future. At some point we WILL have to contend with power cuts a la 1970's again in Britain. Luckily, the pipe organ I play still has its bellows pump in place, and I have an acoustic piano at home, so I'll still be able to make music come the Apocalypse!

Best wishes,

David Pinnegar

Dear Paul

With the greatest of respect, energy, and the combined forces of the earth to destroy us who have done our best to destroy the earth, is the real elephant in the room. Yesterday I heard both that West Sussex County Council have approved fracking in Sussex, and that the Kalihari desert in Botswana is being fracked together with all the risks of water polluted by coal seams poisioning all the animals there and the extraction of water taking the water table down below the level of the wells of the humans who rely on it. So we are trying to extend the death throws of this rotten technology to the last depths and lengths of the earth. We have to get rid of it, or the earth will get rid of us - and if it doesn't, arguments and wars between us will.

The typhoon in the Philippines raises all these issues, and then where will all those people go? We will only survive if we work together not as nations but as a human race, with freedom of refuge whereever food and weather sustains us. If we do, if we gather together and share our talents and resources there will be enough for everybody, as indicated on that day when 4000 and again 5000 of us gathered together and Jesus, by telling everybody to love and to share produced food for
all from that which we had brought with us, with 12 baskets to spare.

Only replicating the Creator process in our individual, community, corporate, national, international lives can overcome the forces of division and destruction that we face.

The immigration issue is an easyone for the Daily Fail to latch onto. Picking on the outsider is just what those who want to profit want to encourage, to divide and rule, finding a scapegoat to excuse us from facing more obvious difficulties but which are too far outside of our comfort zone to deal with.

It's much too easy to pick on Eve or the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as scapegoats when the real issue that prevented our eating of the Tree of Life would have been our own unconsciousness of imprisonment within the garden. As soon as we realise that we are driven to climb the uncomfortable Tree of Knowledge because we are made in the image of the Creator, the image of the process that has created us, then the Garden of Eden ceases to be a paradise at all. Neither Eve nor the serpent are culpable: original sin and the scapegoats are the tools of those who want to control and exploit. Having marked the 75th anniversary of Krystallnacht should be warning enough not to go there.

The reality is that I know of an immigrant Philippino carer of Christian tradition by whom I would much rather be cared for than a godless yob obeying only the rules of the moneymachines that rule privatised care facilities. She cares.

I have been advising a lady from Jamaica who is installing solar power in her house there and letting it to students. She has been working in the UK for 20 years as a psychiatric nurse for the criminally insane. She is a good person and I would rather help her as a friend rather than an angry Roger running a business who would wipe his feet on me if he could and grind me under foot. More: she does an extraordinarily difficult job and one that is not attractive to those aspiring to life in the Yuppy lanes.

Furthermore, near 30 years ago employers were warned of the Demographic Timebomb: the impending collapse of the 18 year old population - and now our  universities cannot be supported on our production of young people. So our jobs that others don't want to do, our universities and a whole raft of things are supported by a mobility of population from which we benefit.

Of the whole raft of things are technicians from other countries where technical colleges still teach that necessary raft of useful meld of theory and practical skills, unhampered by the closure of school workshops hampered by cost and health and safety, and the aspirations towards fancy subjects such as Design Technology rather than actually how to saw and plane a piece of wood, safely with one's own hands.

IT, Business Studies, Photography and Fashion popular in many schools in preference to hard core subjects such as Physics and Chemistry and Mathematics has sold our young workforce short, devoid of the theory and practical skills with which actually to do business with their business studies, and the same shortsightedness has put R&D into the shadows.

The result is that without immigrants, and without working together - "coming together" our vulnerabilities to shortages and what mother earth has to throw at us are increased. Our civilisation is heading for a brick wall unless we start to prepare - now.

We can prepare towards a life without oil, by preparing for independence from oil by installing solar panels in offgrid configurations (such as with lots of free info) as well as exploring whether oil is completely unnecessary. It's for this reason that I am seeking a student apprentice, with engineering, physics, chemistry and or electronics behind them, a gap year student or graduate finding jobs thin on the ground, looking for assymetry in systems to methodically set up experiments to replicate to see whether any of the devices work usefully documented on
(The Stoern motor relies on established technology - the magnetic amplifier capable of use instead of valves and transistors to amplify audio . . . )
(Thane's transformer looks as though something unexpected should be expected)
(The difference of mass of lead and of oxygen is an instant indication of the capability of an asymmetric bias)
(in which _resonant_ dissociation of atoms in water is the are of interest)

So rather than fearing the immigrant, can someone find me any English student so that we can overcome the limitations of energy that will be put upon us? Or do I have to look for an immigrant student qualified and willing to help attempt replication of experiments?

Best wishes

David P

Paul Duffy

David, I am grossly insulted by your implication that I swallow the crap churned out by the Daily Wail. I don't read newspapers. If you don't think unfettered immigration will have an effect on energy consumption that's your business, but clearly it is the 'elephant in the room' because we can't have a sensible debate about it in this country. And bringing the 'night of the broken glass' into this discussion proves it. Nobody is suggesting we pin yellow stars on immigrants.

Best wishes,

David Pinnegar

Dear Paul

Please forgive me: no insult was intended - but population density in one area does not alter the total energy demand of the whole total population. So the energy demand is not the problem of one country or any one county's population but of the whole world, whereever that population is. Immigration from one place to another merely changes the place of energy demand but does not alter the quantum of demand, and its consequences. The problem we face is not a national problem but a world problem.

Indeed, we have to welcome our brothers and sisters as other parts of the world become inhospitable, through natural causes, through pollution radioactive and chemical, accepting people displaced from a polluted Botswana or Amazon from a demand for fracked oil that we have created making their land barren and uninhabitable just as we might have to displace from polluted uninhabitable Fukushima or Sussex to somewhere else and expect our brothers and sisters to accept us.

The time of coming to terms with sharing may well be about to be forced upon us. The result of not doing so is war and destruction. Only those who live by the sharing that is taught by the teachings of the Creator will survive.

Humanity is about to have to grow up. It's uncomfortable. It will be less uncomfortable if we have opened our minds to the research of technology that does away with the need, desire and ruination caused by the use of oil.

It is for this reason that I seek a research student with whom to experiment in the directions outlined above and urge others to do so likewise, there being among the organ fraternity those with skills and knowledge to do so.

Best wishes

David P

David Pinnegar


In connexion with the experiments that I am looking for a student to assist with, details some extraordinary observations which should be of greater value than the building of £16bn nuclear power stations.

Best wishes

David P


Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tyranny of An Economy Which "Kills"
November 26, 2013 • 9:26PM

In his first major writing as Pope, released today, Pope Francis is unequivocal:

"Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills."

"How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points?....

In his Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, Pope Francis calls upon financial experts and political leaders from around the world to bring about a financial reform which defends the common good, and replaces the tyranny of a "survival of the fittest [economy], where the powerful feed upon the powerless," where the ancient golden calf is worshipped, and where human beings are "considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded." He admonishes that "it is the responsibility of the State to safeguard and promote the common good of society."

Wall Street and the City of London will not be pleased, as Pope Francis's spirited message of "No to the new idolatry of money, "No to a financial system which rules rather than serves," available in six languages on the Vatican website, cracks through their media control worldwide.

Pope Francis writes:

"The worship of the ancient golden calf (cf. Ex 32:1-25) has returned in a new and ruthless guise in the idolatry of money and the dictatorship of an impersonal economy lacking a truly human purpose....

"This imbalance is the result of ideologies which defend the absolute autonomy of the marketplace and financial speculation. Consequently, they reject the right of states, charged with vigilance for the common good, to exercise any form of control. A new tyranny is thus born, invisible and often virtual, which unilaterally and relentlessly imposes its own laws and rules....

"A financial reform open to such ethical considerations would require a vigorous change of approach on the part of political leaders. I urge them to face this challenge with determination and an eye to the future... Money must serve, not rule!"

Pope Francis specifies that welfare measures, while needed, are not sufficient to end exclusion and inequality which breed violence which no surveillance systems can ultimately control; changes must be structural. "Just as goodness tends to spread, the toleration of evil, which is injustice, tends to expand its baneful influence... an evil embedded in the structures of a society has a constant potential for disintegration and death. It is evil crystallized in unjust social structures, which cannot be the basis of hope for a better future....

"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation, and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems, or, for that matter, to any problems. Inequality is the root of social ills.

"The dignity of each human person and the pursuit of the common good are concerns which ought to shape all economic policies....

The Pope's discussion of economics is a central concept in a writing which is 224 pages long (in English), dedicated to exhorting Catholics at all levels to adopt a missionary outlook premised on mercy as the greatest of virtues. The Pope called on Catholics to break out of complacency with habits, rules, and structures which lead to a "tomb psychology [which] transforms Christians into mummies in a museum," and instead get their hands dirty in changing a system which sees God "as even dangerous, since he calls human beings to their full realization and to freedom from all forms of enslavement."

I thought this might be relevant to the discussion  ;)


The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

Paul Duffy

"As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation, and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the world's problems, or, for that matter, to any problems. Inequality is the root of social ills."

This appears to be at odds with something the Pope's predecessor said back in 2009:

"Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations...Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility." (Caritas et Veritate, Benedict XVI, 2009, #36).


Best wishes,

David Pinnegar

Dear Eric and Paul

Thanks for most interesting contributions.

Another strand that shows perspective is the current debate in France on prostitution: which is really focussing on the symptoms and not the cause. Outside Nice airport along a road in front of some hotels is a street after dusk inhabited by African girls. They're not old enough to be in the category of women who know their mind, and they crouch between the cars waiting for some source of money to come their way to pay their rent to prevent them being homeless. Most don't have papers and are illegally in France as illegal immigrants. They flee many from Nigeria from the religious disputes there, families with many children and not enough to eat. Many have heard of God and find themselves in a position that they are doing things they don't want to do, to survive. They dream of finding a job, finding husbands and having families, and of course won't do so waiting at the bus stop for the bus that doesn't come or waiting in the gutter waiting to receive compensation for being f*****. When encouraged to try something different, for instance, working as a hairdresser or a cleaner, they find that after 6 weeks they're not paid as French employers know they can take advantage of them not paying someone without a bank account and papers. They are wholly disenfranchised from any form of assistance, even of humanity. Being informed of a humanitarian crisis on their doorsteps, even priests won't seek a Christian solution for their plight. "What would anyone say if a priest was known to go near a prostitute?" one said to me.

A murder of a black girl makes the headlines for a day or two but, being considered subhuman, no more than that.

As the environmental impact of global warming, and of ignorant militant religious offensives, takes hold, more will flee famine and war.

This is why on another thread I have written about the Lord's Prayer actually being a universal prayer when read in an open way. One of our problems is that English particularises. So Our Father which art in Heaven in French is something along the lines of "Notre Père qui es aux cieux" - in the skies. So in French we have to think actively whether our Father is a spaceman in the skies who will one day come back to earth and say "Hi Mates! I told you I'd be back and here I am . . . ." or whether these skies are the heights of our minds, the skies of our heads, that rarified glimpse of paradise.

So the comfort of religion is something that perhaps we have to sacrifice, examining our language for multiple permutations of meanings many of which agree accross religious boundaries, to find god.

And our other problem is energy. Misused of a diminishing resource, or the embracing of searching and finding something new.

In the sharing to which the current pope refers, in the diminishing resource that is before us then in fact only those who share will survive as money will eventually at the level of local survival, have no meaning, only that which one does for others and they do in mutual support. This is the kingdom of heaven - which is why not entirely tongue in cheek I refer to it being "nigh". We have to - it's the only way.

On the other hand market forces tell us Greed is Good. This is to a limited extent - in moderation it causes people to do things . . . and this is necessary as there is no room for freeloaders in a mutually supporting society - a theme in 2 Thessalonians 3

It's difficult to get to a balance. But circumstances will lead that way.

Meanwhile I am still looking for a student with whom to explore new ideas including Thane's transformer and the production of energy through resonant splitting of water -

The latter assertion relating to water is not as outrageous possibly as it seems. The document linked to there states quite clearly that pure ordinary electrolysis is not able to do what apparently can happen. The reality is that a hydrogen atom has a nucleus only half protected by an electron sheild and when that is stripped away, as a charged ion, then we have access directly to what is in effect a naked proton.

The blue _cold_ flame reported is an energy. I surmise that as E=mc2 perhaps one might see anti-energy briefly in parallel to anti-matter. Anti-matter can be viewed as matter in negative time, so anti-energy might also be viewed as energy in negative time. Whether the time is negative or positive, energy is energy . . . We do experience antimatter in relatively common circumstances - PET scans rely on the production and interaction of positrons, anti-electrons, with our bodies. They can only exist within a millionth of a second, and this may be key to many experiments which rely on phenonomae of very short pulses, possibly allowing for anti-time phenonomae within.

Best wishes

David P


Within this document the economist Lyndon Larouche responds to the first writing of the new pope...

QuoteLAROUCHE: Well, I think the appropriate thing to say, in response to those remarks from the pope, is to address the Pope on his own level of authority, as a religious figure. And I'm not joking. This is quite serious.

The greatest problem that we experience in the category of morality, as human beings, is the belief that the human life ends with the death of the mortal person. That is a great mistake. It's more a mistake, probably, of negligence than any other purpose.

Because what does death mean, for a human being? Look at what the role of the human being is, in life, when we talk in these terms? Human life is immortal, but in what sense? In what expression is it immortal? The mortality of the flesh? No, that is not decisive for people who are creative thinkers. They don't think in terms of the flesh. They don't think flesh. They think concepts, which flesh cannot produce, but can only inhabit.

Therefore, the issue is, is the idea you want to get by, with faking it in life? Are you going to be proud of your death from that? Are you going to say, well, we're only human, we don't know the future? Therefore, we're innocent because we're ignorant of the future.

That's not true. It certainly is not true by the ancient Christian theology. In the ancient Christian theology, the life is immortal. Its function is immortal. It has no limit of ignorance. Ignorance is forbidden. You require people who have the ability to rise above mortality, and see what the future requires of mankind, and to prepare mankind for that future, by informing mankind of the principles which mankind needs, for the purpose of mankind.

What's the purpose of mankind? Mankind is the only creature, living creature, of which we know, which has the ability to create the future. Not a continuation of a breed, but a continuation of mankind to a higher level of achievement. And the purpose of Christianity, for example, is this higher level of achievement.

Not to be ashamed of what you've done, if you don't have a reason to be ashamed, but be ashamed if you don't do something which adds to the meaning of the future of mankind. The sacred thing is the sacred goodness of the human mind.

And you look and you take the writings and work of great people, great figures, take religious figures: what's their commitment, if they're good? Their commitment is to foresee what the future must be, or to encourage other people to begin to be able to foresee what the future requires.

The idea that you cannot know the other side of death, is nonsense. That's exactly what you should know. You should know what must be done, after you're dead. You must be devoted to that as a purpose. That must be your being. So the interruption of life by death, for you, means that.

The death, the passing of life, is merely a moment, but the meaning of human life is immortal.

It comes as no surprise Lyn advocates the development of matter-antimatter reactions and their utilization within the physical economy...

This also bears directly on the construction or restoration of pipe organs...

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."


The construction and installation of a pipe organ in an opera house within the Muslim Persian Gulf region has some intriguing implications culturally... see,1819.0.html

QuotePerformances of overall global significance linking the music of different civilisations and cultural values over many years have an intrinsic value of their own and play an important role in world cultural develpment.

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

David Pinnegar

Dear Eric

Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention. Possibly this is the most wonderful news that the Christmas on the Eve of New Year 2014 could possilbly bring.

This period has been for me a time of miraculous revelation in relation to The Creed and to the concept of the differentiation between The Christ, The Christ Child, Jesus Christ, these references to Christ in contrast to the teachings and parables of Jesus the teacher and his followers who we read about in the texts.

Our silly three dimensional material world is a stumbling block, upon which it's so easy to stumble even upon our whole lives.

The texts are a riddle which when dissected and put back together again are as blindingly clear as daylight.

"Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary" was the line that did it . . .

Conceived - not a material conception
Born of the Virgin Mary - born - the other meaning - carried

Christ as son of god - son is used as in the nature of idea of.

So Mary carried the idea of God, God the Idea of the Creator that Creates

I believe in the Idea of the Creator, the Father as our origins, Almighty - all powerful overruling overriding, Maker of paradise and earth:

2. And in Jesus Idea of God, the Idea of the Creator's only begotten Idea of God, our Lord:

3. Who was conceived by the Idea of the Idea of the Idea of the Creator, carried of the Virgin Mary:

Sorry - this breaks down into a tautology but from which the Holy Trinity is the Three in One. The Idea of God, the Idea of the Idea of God, the Iead of the Idea of the Idea of God.

By breaking this down in this way, we can somehow weave through the riddle that makes it difficult for Muslims to get past the physicality of just one unique person being the unique and only physical son of God. We are all sons and daughters of the creator, all derived from the same creator process. But there is only one such quasi-Darwinian process of matter coming together to be useful and in this is the Idea of God, the Christ, the anointed. Whatever, whoever, the man who carries it, that idea is as unique as the God of which the idea is.

So it's the Idea of God that is born again every Christ Mas - Mas in the old Langue d'Oc meaning House. So CHRIST MAS puts the Idea of God into our house, into the house of our hearts. This idea is given from God, the Creator, and the process of the creator brings it to birth, and to death and to resurrection because Christ, the Idea of God cannot die and this Idea always rises again and never dies.

In understanding of the Creator as the process that creates, and the understanding of Christ as the Idea of the Creator that Creates, the act of creation creating creation, can anyone be atheist any more?

So yes - Christ will come again - Christ will come out of the clouds - the clouds of our minds, in each and every one.

It's so difficult to express a multi dimensional idea within the limitations of a linearity of text so I apologise for how very unclear in written form this might seem to be.

Best wishes and especially for a HAPPY NEW YEAR,

David P

Paul Duffy

Christ is not an idea. He is as real as you or I. Certain events occurring to me during the past few months have convinced me of this.

Anyone wanting evidence of the divine need only to ponder on music and its inspiration. I watched a documentary on the Beatles over Christmas and there was a part in it where John Lennon was doorstepped outside Abbey Road after the band had played its last live concert. He was asked if he would still write music. "Of course", he said. "Once you start writing music you can't stop. You write whether you want to or not"

It is an interesting thought. Where does the inspiration for musical composition come from? I am not talking about dabblers out to write a pretty tune, but people from whom music flows like water and who struggle to get what is going on in their heads onto paper before it vanishes like mist.

I don't believe JSB could have written such beautiful music based on an idea. Nor do I think Catholic England could have undergone such persecution during the Reformation.

Best wishes to all for 2014



The whole point of Christianity is the reality of Christ (and God & the Holy Spirit) as a reality.  If Christ & the Christian religion are no more than an idea, we're in BIG trouble!

Interessting thoughts too about musical inspiration. 

Every Blessing



There may be a confusion  about the use of the word "idea" and its intended "meaning" perhaps???

This may stem from the "physical human entity" relying too heavily upon "sense perception" to determine the "certainty" of things...

So often we read in the Bible statements similar to "for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear..."

All one has to do is observe an "illusionist" at work to understand our "physical" perception of the "physical" environment is suspect...   In the case of "spiritual" matters, even more so?

QuoteOur silly three dimensional material world is a stumbling block, upon which it's so easy to stumble even upon our whole lives.

Yet at the same time "our silly three-dimensional material world" has revealed clues which authenticate "the word"... The golden chariot wheel found on the floor of the Red sea, and the DNA testing of the blood staining the Shroud of Turin are but a couple examples.

QuoteThe whole point of Christianity is the reality of Christ (and God & the Holy Spirit) as a reality.  If Christ & the Christian religion are no more than an idea, we're in BIG trouble!

This is where I suspect Tony and David actually agree but don't know it yet :o ??? ;) ;D 8)

Even in the "time of Christ" there were many "eyes who saw and ears who heard" but STILL didn't "believe"...  So within the "word" resides the "idea" which essentially is all we are left with today...

That anyone has "faith" is in itself a miracle! 

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

David Pinnegar

Dear Eric

Thank you so much for bringing us together, because we actually agree.

An Idea is a comprehension of something, something we cannot see in the material world other than in the abstraction of the mind, the mind in the process of creation. The product of the Creator itself! So we are made in the image of the Creator, we being of God, and God in us.

I use the word in that dimension beyond the material that encompasses the material and all else besides.

This idea is a physical reality. It is an understanding. Mary had the understanding brought in that flash for which Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein are known. Whilst understandings of gravitation and relativity are only ideas, noone can deny their reality. God likewise for reasons to become clear. It is an understanding of something tangible, the God of Creation, the Creator working through the tools of creation, forgiveness and love. This God was to save Mary either from the Roman administration should she have given away the secret about her defilement at the rape of a centurion, or from the zealots who would have stoned her. Mary's flash of understanding of this God conceived by the Holy Spirit, the Holy Idea, and brought forth into life as the Christ in Jesus to be taught and dedicated to bring this God forth into humanity, was as life changing to civilisation as any before or since.

As an idea, an invention, a product of the imagination - hey isn't that creation - this God of Creation - it is by no means artificial. As an act of Creation it creates and this act is real, not artificial.

It is, and those who have seen some drafts of my book iGod-Godj which is to be renamed something like "Cause and Effect, and the tool to achieve it" has an introduction about mathematics.

There is only one God, and God is One. So I look at the mathematics of one. It's so simple that no-one bothers to do it. But it is extraordinary that in both religion and physics we agree that
QuoteSometime, somewhere, nothing exploded and created everything

How did it create? The creator is the process by which everything was created, in just the same concept that DNA is both of the substance and of its own creation. I talked about this to a biologist on New Years Eve, and now alive to this dimension, he was aghast.

So when we look at the number one, we are told that we are made in the image of the Creator. An image of 1 is minus 1. So we have to look at the mathematics of -1.

Those mathematics involve something that we cannot do directly. They need help from an invention, a recognition, a figment of imagination, a Creation. . . . and this is by no means something artificial. It exists, a number called i or j and without it we would be unable to do many things, not least of which is the understanding of radio waves which bring us together through wireless radios, TVs, mobile phones . . .

All of these things exist because of something we have invented, Created, and looks not real. But no-one can deny the reality.

So no-one can deny the reality of God.

As I write, I have a problem of dealing with two potential suicides both caused by people without feelings, without putting God the Creator at the centre of their existence. One, remote, may not be within my power to redeem, but the other is rescuable by the strength of the Creator. A teenage girl came into my house last night near midnight and pleaded me to go to counsel her sister and mother.

All I could say was to start with asking them to envisage their origins being in paradise and then how to transfer the paradise of their minds into their actions and all those around them on earth - the Lord's Prayer. Standing in the middle of a wood we looked at the trees and I told them that whatever the wind, whatever the cold, whatever that which wants to destroy, nothing could destroy the Creator within that tree that caused it to grow.

God, the Creator, is in that tree, you and me, and in everything we know and we don't. Everything that is not of God has been destroyed long ago, because it has not grown, and all of God has overtaken it. This is the parable of the talents.

In the understanding of God and the Creator's ways, water was turned into wine of the most exquisite vintage, and by such understanding even people are transformed from the common water of understaning into the most vintage and precious of wine, thought to be too good to be let loose among the masses at the wedding - and yet Christ, the spirit of God, the Father of God, the Three In One, transformed the wedding as knowledge and understanding of God transforms humanity.

Best wishes

David P


This amounts to a "concert review" of sorts I composed elsewhere and re-posted here as it addresses issues under discussion there as well as what is being discussed above. Thus it is written in a style more appropriate to a "general audience" and not specific to "organ enthusiasts" ??? ;)

Please refer to the following for background...

Well I finally "dunnit"... I think... I traveled to the "big city" to appear within the confines of a concert hall to "see what all the fuss was about"... I then proceeded to collect my thoughts in a post on the forum mentioned above only to make a keystroke entry mistake and see all my hard work vanish before my eyes. As this forum provides a unique facility which prevents that I thought I would have a go and see what I could knock together... As I was writing this my internet connection failed (something the ISP I am utilizing currently is NOT known for, unlike my previous service for which connection terminations were all-too-common.) and the "auto save draft" facility saved the bulk of what I have written. Yay!

Given that previous work ended the way it did I must conclude I was approaching my creative efforts from completely the wrong angle and thus this may prove in the end to be a blessing... I had begun and nearly completed what amounted to a "bog-standard concert review" typical of those which at some point no doubt will be written by so many others that it probably was no great loss in the end. Frustrating? Of course. But I couldn't sleep until I made that attempt at least. And this is after I had already been semi-conscious for at least 24 hours prior.

After "sleeping on it" I awoke and took a bit of time to think again about the "post-concert report" and what it really should contain, and rather than taking the experience, freezing it, then slicing it into microscopic sheets and studying every molecule under a microscope I decided that a larger perspective would prove far more useful than trying to appear in "print" as some sort of "self-proclaimed music critic"... as much fun as that would have been, it would not convey the serious importance that placing this performance into a much larger perspective would serve.

More specifically the performance given by Cameron Carpenter in Benaroya Hall upon the pipe organ installed there. This event is significant as this is Cameron's first appearance in Seattle, playing at any venue.

For those asking "Cameron, Who???" a bit of research on the WWW and watching some of his Youtube videos will give you some idea about who (and/or what) I am talking about.

Unlike the majority of presentations of music performed on pipe organs which I have attended (and this would INCLUDE church services and a visit to Pizza and Pipes when I was a kid) this one was very well attended, despite the fact that hours before the event there were still a bit over a hundred tickets yet to be sold. My guess is many made the decision "at the last minute" to actually make the journey and plunk down their hard-earned FRNs ;)

With that out of the way one must understand that analyzing the nature of the controversy surrounding this performer is not unlike that surrounding our current president. There are parallels to how the MSM and its controlled opposition view both subjects. Metaphorically, many of the same arguments exist in both cases under consideration here.

Consider for a second Nobel prizes and Grammy nominations... "Savior and Antichrist" come to mind also...

(Warning--At this time if you haven't already, don your tinfoil hat;)

If ever there was an experience which demonstrated that Music in our current culture is being weaponized, the concert I attended would serve as an excellent example.

To make any sense out of that last statement one must consider the role of the creative arts in general and music in particular within civilized society, and this activity throughout the arc of history, the present, and into the future.

Another thought to consider in this vein is the statement "whoever controls the past controls the future"... If one recognizes that everything in the present is built on the foundations of the past and that the present is the foundation of the future then it becomes apparent that literally the future is being created today...

Then one needs to consider the role of the composer and the relationship that a musician has with the composer, and the relationship that a musician has with the audience. Ultimately the composer has a relationship with the audience but through the work of the musician. (

Put it all together and one realizes the true power music has to shape civilized society.

I recognize these are general observations, and one could add to these the use of 440hz as the frequency standard for "middle A" and "equal temperament". A whole book could be written on how that statement has altered the "fabric of society"... It certainly has altered the construction of pipe organs throughout history. And the history of the pipe organ is a long one, beginning shortly after the time of Christ, the first examples fashioned by ancient Greeks...

But is that history about to end? There have been disturbing trends observed by myself and others as well and thus a search for an explanation as to "why"... ( Does the answer lie somewhere in the location of "cultural decline"... or is it "economic decline?" ( or that they are related ( and that the "state of the pipe organ" has become a symbol of both?

Enter Cameron Carpenter-- a musician who some feel has the "power" to "save" the pipe organ by making it "popular" in "todays culture", but after attending the concert keeping all I have presented so far in mind, I tried to keep an "open mind" but his presentation of the material for which I had some familiarity was presented in a manner inconsistent from what I felt the original composer had in mind... I am probably being extremely generous with the word "inconsistent"... To the point I had to consider his motivation for taking such "dramatic license" with the composed works he presented. I am certainly not alone in this assessment, there are a fair few critics who have made similar observations. Applying "shock and awe" to music which you compose or improvise yourself is one thing, but what Cameron engaged in was just slightly short of "murder for sport" in this regard. So one has to carefully consider what his motivations are... It is claimed he is the highest-paid organist on the planet right now... moreover he professes unabashedly his atheism, and slightly less loudly his homosexuality. Given what some of us know about the "music industry" right now this is no surprise. Does this affect his ability to render music which for the most part was written by "church musicians" for a "church instrument" in many cases, and do so "in a manner consistent with its labeling? In a statement to the audience during the concert he actually directly addressed this issue after a deviation from the program to play something by Olivier Messaien... For those unfamiliar, Olivier Messaien is what most people consider an "avant-garde" composer to begin with, so in that case with the exception of a few in the audience who may be familiar with Messaien's work Cameron could "slice, dice, and serve" and the rest of us would simply be guessing at the composer's intention given the nature of the rest of the program. Needless to say this was NOT well received by most of the audience! Otherwise the "Shock and Awe" was for the most part "shocking and awesome" so was great as "mere entertainment".

What "saved his butt" in terms of artistry consistent with his virtuosity for the evening was his improvisations... His first was as he described it a "musical expression of his first visit to Seattle"... followed by three more if you include the encore... and these made the whole "show" worth the price of admission...

All that being said Cameron has never claimed to be the "savior" of the pipe organ, his preference for a custom-built electronic substitute (his "dream organ", which he announced at the beginning of the concert had just landed in Frankfurt) is a case-in-point.

My conclusion in this stage of my thought process is that Cameron Carpenter no doubt has some usefulness in raising public awareness by serving as a "bad example"... What I would like to see is for one (or thousands) of Cameron's contemporaries (or someone even younger) with similar "skill" but who is willing to take similar "risks" and at the same time able to properly convey the musical intention of works composed by others become well enough known to actually serve the purpose of furthering the cause of Mankind in that manner and thus ensure the survival of both "the ultimate musical machine"... and Mankind...

(You may now safely remove, if present, your tinfoil hat) ;)

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."



The problem with this sort of "look at how well I can play" concerts is that they can all too easily alienate people - as hapened with my wife at the first recital we went to together (on our honeymoon).  It's taken over 40 years to get her to even try another recital!

Every Blessing



This "show" didn't qualify as a "recital" until the end of the program :(  Oddly enough I spotted Mel Butler, the Canon Musician and principal organist of Saint Mark's Cathedral in the lobby before the event... An organist I (now) have far more respect for musically.  It would be intriguing to "read his mind" during and after this event... Would he have felt "intimidated"???  Behind me sat an organist who actually had practice time on this instrument, rehearsing music which will accompany a new choir organization recently established... but I hadn't had the chance to query him afterwards... Few people lingered afterward, it seemed like a 'slow stampede' for the exits afterward... It was getting late, I was using "foot transport" within Seattle proper and although I did wander the lobby afterward to see if I could spot anyone I might have met beforehand but like I said there seemed to be an effort upon many to set out for the journey home... As it turned out had I left the concert hall earlier I would have caught a much earlier ferry back across the Puget Sound home and had to settle for the "last boat", leaving some two hours later. ....

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."


QuoteSTEGER: Another key factor, and you've raised this before, Lyn, is, at the same time as(Bertrand) Russell, you had the death of Brahms. But the problem that people think of with music, is they think: "Oh, that's unfortunate, Brahms died, we didn't have a continued legacy." But this fight around music has also been of the highest political nature. I mean, if you take the example of what Bach introduced, following Leibniz's death, they had this Newton operation, they tried to mathematize the calculus, right after Leibniz died, a kind of Bertrand Russell operation. But what Bach introduced, for the next few decades, were some of the greatest creative breakthroughs in mankind, really began to transform as a political process, as a social process, exactly what you're saying, an ability to collaborate around ideas, to the advancement of mankind. And that kind of process is of a political nature, it's not just of "do we create good music, or do we have the trash we have today?" This was by intent, along with Russell, a destruction of a higher sense of music, of a higher sense of ideas.

And that's got to be part of what we unleash today, is this real Renaissance in human thought.

"Surgically removed from" As it is a large document I only copied over the point where their discussion turned to music  ;)  Reading through the whole of it one can see commonalities and this quote above is where these threads cross paths :D ;D ;)


The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."