Small 2 rank extension organ and its proposed extension!

[Holditch]

The organ that I play regularly on a Sunday is very limited. I have been thinking about how it could be improved upon and I would be interested to hear people's comments with regards to suggested expansion of this organ.

It is a single manual two rank extension organ built by Sixsmith in 1972. It rather cleverly comprises of 8 stops on the manual and 3 on the pedal (a form of wizardry I think!)

The current registration is

Manual

16 ft – Open diapason
8ft – Gedact
8 ft – Open diapason
4 ft – Principal
4ft – Flute
2ft – Fifteenth
1 1/3 - Larigot

Pedal

16ft – Sub Bass
8ft – Flute
4ft – Principal


The organ is indeed limited in its tonal qualities, as the two ranks that it is made up of comprise of a 8ft stopped wood rank, so giving the 8ft Gedact and 4ft Flute, it also uses resultant fifths for the 16ft pedal (which doesn't work very well!), and a 4ft open metal rank giving the other stops.

My initial complaint about the organ (apart from the obvious lack of manuals, reeds and 8ft pipes) is that it does not play quietly, so I was thinking that maybe the first move would be to enclose the organ (which is only 2m x 1m) in a swell chamber ?

Or perhaps add a second manual (swell) with a couple of additional ranks for variation.

The third option is to try and find a reasonable redundant organ that can be used as a replacement.

Funding has not been established yet, so I would also be interested in knowing peoples views to the estimates for additional work

I know this organ is a bit of a joke, and we have considered replacing it with an electronic organ (a narrow escape now I think about it!), but maybe it should be added to the npor list? Small is beautiful, perhaps!??!

I will send further details if needs be

Best Regards
Marc

[Barrie Davis]

Yes it should be added to NPOR.

The problem with enclosing pipework that has been voiced as unenclosed is that it rarely work as it has been boldly voiced, this is why you say its loud!! There is no magic about stops appearing on the pedals these are transmitted by relays or solid state depending on the age of the instrument.
Sixsmiths are very approachable and will answer any questions you ask. They may even have a suitable soundboard and pipework in stock for you.

There are several organ builders on this forum who may be able to offer you guidance

Barrie

[dragonser]

Hi,
I'm only a beginner, but I wonder if adding a rank of pedal pipes ( 16ft ) would improve things ?
Of course I guess it depends on how large the blower is as to what pipes you could add.
you mention it is too loud, is it too loud to the organist, or the congregation ?
I'm going to be most interested to see other replies as well....


regards Peter B

[Holditch]

It is not that it is too loud, it is will not play at a significant pp level, which is sometimes required for before services, and also for the accompanying of any small group singing.

A 16ft stopped pedal rank would be great to add warmth and foundation to the sound; I will maybe post a photo of the existing location of the pipe/windchest and blower, which may unfortunately make the addition of such quite tricky! (I.e. it is mounted above the entrance to the church)

[David Pinnegar]

A 16ft stopped pedal rank would be great to add warmth and foundation to the sound;

Hi!

An interesting question. Certainly resultant 16ft sounds for the pedals doesn't seem brilliant and extending the pedal organ would help. I agree about enclosure also, that an unenclosed instrument should remain unenclosed.

This is a classic case where the integrity of the instrument can be retained were some degree of hybridisation to be permissable. On the manuals clearly a quiet stop and possibly a judicious reed would be helpful, as well as a true 16ft on the pedals. With that in mind, it would be absolutely riduculous to add all the stops available on
http://www.classicalorganscornwall.co.uk/exp440.html
but know from personal experience of
http://www.classicalorganscornwall.co.uk/exp220.html
which I have built into the 3rd and 5th manual of my monster that the Voix Celestes is second to none and the 16ft Bourdon is as real as they get. This would not undermine the integrity of the original pipe organ and one might consider judicious use of the Cornet (to be used with your 8ft Gedakt as foundation) and or one or two of the reeds.

Certainly, as far as I know, addition of an electronic 16ft to the pedals would not be contrary to IOB rules.

Best wishes

David P

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

There have been a couple of similar rebuilds recently - in one case, a Walker Positive was reused as the Swell of a larger scheme.

My thoughts would be, in order of importance for leading congregational singing:-

1. an octave of 16ft Bourdons for the pedal
2. add a second manual with a string rank (at least 8 & 4) and another flute both enclosed in a swell box.  Alternatively, just add the string in place of the existing Diapason and add a swell box.  Have the Diapason rank on a new unenclosed sound board, or in a separate swell box.  (Many small extension organs are totally enclosed, and that actually reduces their flexibility greatly).
3. add an independent diapason chorus at 8.4.2 minimum.

Or, as you suggest, find a redundant organ that's better suited to the task.

Returning to the extension theme, you might take a look at http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N08479  This is one of the organs that I learned on.  It was quite adequate for purpose - except for the detached console which, in conjunction with the action, meant that it was easy to be playing semi-quavers a note ahead of what you were hearing!  This organ is why I'm no great fan of detached consoles!

It's also worth looking at the design of the Compton Miniatura range of small extension organs for ideas - although IMHO they fail by only having one swell box.  http://www.zyworld.com/IvorBuckingham/Miniatura.htm has the basic details.

Every Blessing

Tony

[dragonser]

Hi,
ok I see you mean that the dynamic range of the organ is not great enough rather than it being too loud the whole time.
if there isn't physical space for the pedal pipes, then how about a quiet Dulciana at 8 ft / 4ft pitch ? would this mean having another additional chest for the pipes ? if the Organ has electric action then could you have separate solenoids for the quiet Dulciana, then would it be possible to use these for a separate manual at a later date if funds were available.
an interesting thread ....

regards Peter B

[Holditch]

I think everyone's suggestions are very good and much appreciated.

The organ is electric action, which means it should be fairly straight forward to add another chest. I also like the idea of electronic additions, maybe just add a swell manual with midi so creating a hybrid.

Lots to think about, I might see what Sixsmiths also recommend, however they are currently busy repairing lightning damage to the organ at St Lukes, Benchill. The current estimate for repair is £ 6k, eek!

Best Regards

Marc

[Barrie Davis]

Sixsmiths do hybrids so that may be an option, I think they use or used the Bradford system

[moshchops]

Tuba Magna on 50 inches of pressure - it's the only way. No one will expect it from such a small instrument and you won't need (be able to hear even) the other ranks. Watch the congregation leap out of their seats when draw that one for the final verse...hey, it's what I'd do but that's just me  8)

[David Pinnegar]

Tuba Magna on 50 inches of pressure - it's the only way. No one will expect it from such a small instrument and you won't need (be able to hear even) the other ranks. Watch the congregation leap out of their seats when draw that one for the final verse...hey, it's what I'd do but that's just me  8)

Well that Ahlborn Romantic unit on ebay will do just that using a pair of special speakers that you'll hear on your visit to Hammerwood . . .

Best wishes

David P

[NonPlayingAnorak]

I'd have said scrap the whole boiling lot and get a decent secondhand straight tracker-action job. Might be worth salvaging/selling the pipework, though.