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What is the best organ you have ever played

Started by Barrie Davis, July 16, 2015, 09:37:13 AM

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Barrie Davis

Hi,

This should be quite interesting and I have added the topic at the request of a member!!

Please do not just restrict yourself to one instrument if you have several, I will post some of mine later.

Best wishes,
Barrie

Gwas_Bach

Back in May, I was very fortunate to have about a minute's playing time on the organ of Liverpool Anglican Cathedral.  David Poulter had given a recital, and an organ club (from somewhere considerably further south, IIRC) had been allowed to try the instrument using the Nave console.  I asked Prof. Tracey whether I could jump onto the end of the line, and he answered in the affirmative.  I played the start of Bach's Prelude in E flat BWV 552, and was enthralled by the sound of the instrument reverberating around the building.

Nicolette

#2
I was allowed a go on the 4-manual Hill, Norman and Beard at the Royal Hospital School, Ipswich, a couple of years ago.  This is a very powerful instrument with some lovely solo reeds.

When on home ground, however, I'd have to nominate our 1931 3-manual Rushworth and Dreaper at Inverleith St. Serf's, Edinburgh.  It has a wonderful tone and beautiful solos, and is set within a lovely acoustic.   It was recently renovated by Principal Pipe Organs of York, who have brought it back to its former glory and beyond.   A super recital instrument and soon to be put through its paces with the Poulenc.
Nicolette Fraser, B. Mus., ARCO

JBR

I'd very much like to contribute to this thread but, unfortunately, I lack the skills needed to play!

Nevertheless, I look forward to benefiting from others' experiences.
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

pcnd5584

#4
Probably the superb Harrison instrument in Coventry Cathedral - this, in its inspiring and actually quite beautiful setting, is a perfect combination.

I have also been fortunate enough to have played many cathedral organs, both in this country and in Europe. Amongst those, I would mention the following - in no particular order -  as being very special instruments (usually in a wonderful building, with a good acoustic ambiance):

Blackburn Cathedral (Prior to the additions and alterations in 2001-02)
Bristol Cathedral
Exeter Cathedral (Prior to 2000 - I have played it since, on several occasions, but regret many of the tonal changes which have been carried out)
Chester Cathedral
Chichester Cathedral
Gloucester Cathedral (Many times, having received regular lessons on this instrument from David Briggs, over a few years)
Norwich Cathedral
Saint George's Chapel, Windsor
Saint Paul's Cathedral, London
Southwark Cathedral
Ripon Cathedral (Again, prior to the recent tonal alterations)
Worcester Cathedral (No - the former H-J / H&H instrument. Don't get me started on this one....)

I have also played the organs in the cathedrals of Truro and Winchester, but I have to confess that they did not please me as much, for various reasons. (Yes, I know that everyone is supposed to like Truro, as it is a virtually tonally untouched FHW - but I happen not to - or at least, not nearly as much as some others.... Winchester, I felt was somewhat colourless, particularly when compared to Salisbury.)


Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

David Drinkell

#5
I would find it impossible to come to an absolute conclusion - there are many instruments that linger in my mind, all different but all wonderful in their way.  Here are some.....

A group of students at Addington Palace once asked Gerald Knight over breakfast which organ was his favourite.  'St. Paul's,' he said, without hesitation or looking up from toast and Telegraph.  In many ways, I think he was right, and I've always considered the Mander rebuild to be right in every way. 

Allan Wicks came to do a master class and seminar at Bristol University when I was a student.  A non-organist asked, 'What's the best organ in England?'.  He replied, 'Chester Cathedral.'  I could go along with that, too, although I'm not generally a Hill fan.

There's Truro as well.  Nothing finer.  But some would choose Salisbury, and maybe some, Hereford.  And they'd be right.  St. Patrick's, Dundalk takes some beating, the west gallery position giving it an advantage over some similar jobs.

Redcliffe, Bristol Cathedral, Downside - preference may play a part, but no one can deny that they are all "Best" in their way.

St. John the Evangelist, Islington.  Walkers' turned out some splendid instruments around this time - I would guess Wimborne Minster is another and, some day, with pcnd's permission, I hope to find out for myself.

Best Binns - The Old Independent Church, Haverhill, Suffolk.

Norman & Beard's Edwardian Summer - The Moot Hall, Colchester.  And somewhat later - Holbrook School, Suffolk (the perfect juxtaposition of placing, acoustic and a blank cheque).  Hearing Norwich Cathedral played by David Dunnet made me think it was as fine as they come, although it can sound lumpy in the hands of those who don't know it so well.

"Rushworth's could really do it when they wanted to" - Holy Rude, Stirling (another blank cheque); St. James, Antrim Road, Belfast.

"A particularly happy result" (Henry Willis III) - Liverpool Anglican Cathedral, the late lamented St. Jude's, Thornton Heath, Surrey, the realisation of his "Model" three-manual organ at St. Thomas a Beckett, Wandsworth, United Reformed Church, Stowmarket, Suffolk.

Small firms hitting the heights: 
Cedric Arnold, Williamson & Hyatt at Walsingham, Norfolk, and St. Botolph's, Colchester
Roger Yates (most of the few jobs of his that I know) at Kilkhampton, St. John's Taunton (successful gilding of a Father Willis lily), Bozeat, Northamptonshire (remarkable 1939 job, like a Willis III Model but more classical and refined, with a good case).
Lammermuir Pipe Organs at St. Mary's, Haddington, Lothian.

A couple of little old jobs: Great and Little Bardfield in Essex, the former by Miller of Cambridge in a gorgeous Gothic revival case and the latter by goodness-knows-who (Miller was in there somewhere, too) in archaic style and a Renatus Harris case.

Marcussen at Borgundkyrkje, Alesund (despite the back-handed compliment that I made it sound like an Arthur Harrison).

Arthur Harrison - Christ Church, Skipton, Yorkshire (Blimey! and only 21 speaking stops),  and the "RSCM" organ now in Shrewsbury.

Down Cathedral (Arthur Harrison's rebuild of not-a-Samuel Greene, further rebuilt by Harrisons', with Wells-Kennedy adding the final trimmings).

The Mander at St. Ignatius Loyola, New York.  As a young teenager, I was terribly impressed by St. Vedast, Foster Lane, and, slightly later, St. Giles, Cripplegate, and I have had no reason to change my opinion.

The Wurlitzer at the Gaumont State, Kilburn and the (again late-lamented) Compton at the Plough, Great Munden (nicer for having a Wurlitzer wooden Tibia, I thought - all this and Greene King IPA too!).

The Aeolian-Skinner (G. Donald Harrison) at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, New York.

I remember a hardened organ-buff grabbing my arm with tears in his eyes on hearing the Gabler at Weingarten. A one-off (even Ochsenhausen is different), and maybe more famous for its looks and specification than for how it sounds.  Very subtle and beautiful.

Finally, I know that the organ I play every day isn't the best in the world - indeed, in some ways it is rather odd - but I like it better than any other I've had in my charge because I can turn it inside out and make it do things of which, on paper, it shouldn't be capable.  The similar-sized job in the United Church down the road is supposed to be one of the finest of its marque and period, but to me it always sounds like a late-fifties Casavant....

I'm sure there are lots of others of which I have no experience, and everyone will have different opinions.  It just goes to show that this is a question to which no definite answer can be made.




Barrie Davis

One of my favourite organs is All Saints Wellington, it is a 3 manual Bevington rebuilt by Walkers in the 1960's, they retained the mechanical action to the manuals and the TP to the Pedal Organ. The choruses are clear and well balanced, and I am pleased Walkers did not alter the specification, they did however rename the Cone Gamba as Open Diapason 2. The church is very Evangelical, as a result the organ is not heard as often as it should be.

David Drinkell

Kilkenny Cathedral (CofI) was a very similar Bevington to the one at Wellington and both were restored by Walkers' in the sixties.  Kilkenny was in a sorry state when I played it during my time at Belfast - a fine instrument whose majesty was somewhat veiled by its condition - but has since been restored, rebuilt and turned round by the excellent Trevor Crowe of Donadea, Co. Kildare.

Barrie Davis

St Mary Shrewsbury, a fine 4 manual Binns, sounds fantastic at the console but does not sound well in the church as all the pipework is buried in a high chamber. The quieter sounds are so lovely but barely audible "downstairs" for example Choir Dolce and Unda Maris are scintillating. The late Sam Baker used to couple the Solo 16 reed and Orchestral Oboe to the Swell to augment the reed tone.

The church is now redundant, the organ is still used for recitals and still has the Binns adjustable piston drawstops, but this is best well alone!!! 

David Drinkell

Yes, I know St. Mary's, Shrewsbury - such a shame that a wonderful church like that should be redundant (although sometimes redundant churches are busier than when they were working). I think of the organ as the Binns equivalent of St. Patrick's Cathedral, Dublin: a wonderful instrument hidden away.

pcnd5584

Quote from: David Drinkell on July 17, 2015, 01:49:52 AM

...I would guess Wimborne Minster is another and, some day, with pcnd's permission, I hope to find out for myself. ...

David, you would be most welcome, although an evening would be best, since the building is often quite busy during the daytime.
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

revtonynewnham

Hi

This for me is a difficult question.  I've played many organs over the years, and with a few exceptions that were dire for various reasons, I've enjoyed them all.  To me, the "best organ" depends on what repertoire you're playing!  I don't really have favourites.

Every Blessing

Tony

Ian van Deurne

Although I must be completely biased, the organ in the St Lauenskerk in my home town of Alkmaar has got to be my all time favourite instrument, although pressure of work makes it very difficult for me to find the time to visit it these days. This was the organ that first aroused my interest at the tender age of eight when I was first taken to see it by my grandmother who was a professional teacher in organ, harpischord and piano. In fact I began to play under her guidance aged four on a small spinet, but after I first heard this organ I could not think of anything else but to want to learn to play it.
       I also learnt from her that one of our ancestors, Nicolaas Willenbroek (1688-1754), by great (x7) grandfather had worked with Frans Caspar Schnitger on the rebuilding of this organ in 1723, and this is one of the reasons why I subsequently took up organ-building as a profession when I left school.
       I count myself as very lucky when growing up because not only is this organ truly exceptional, but other instruments in the town and surrounding area are also a joy to play, for instance the organ a Purmerend, built in 1738 by another German, Rudolph Garrels, probably because of the success of the rebuilding in the Laurenskerk by Schnitger, although at the time of completion there was a real row about "why a German should be allowed to come here and ruin one of the best organs in the Netherlands" was certianly a view amongst several Dutch organists at the time, but by the presence of the Pumerend organ built only a few years later, it suggests that the preduce was quickly overcome.
       For me, some of the English organs that stand out is the modern masterpiece by Harrison in Coventry Cathedral which has already been mentioned, the Willis organ at Salisbury, although I still believe that in order to hear the finest reed stops ever made you need to visit an (unspoilt) organ by the great Aristide Cavaillé-Coll, such as at St. Sernin in Toulouse. Another English organ I used to love to play when in my teens was the Hill/Willis organ in All Saints on the Isle of Wight, but I don't know what condition it is in at the present time.
       Then we should move to Germany, just as I did aged nineteen, to learn to build organs properly with one of the most famous organ-builders in the country, and visit other organs by Schnitger, not by his son, as at the Laurenskerk, but by his father Arp Schnitger (1648-1719) Then drive further south-west to Thueringia and Saxony to listen and/or play organs by Gottfried Silbermann (1683-1753) who has always been my guiding influence when designing my own organs. The organs at Fraureuth, Reinhardtsgrimma, Ponitz, Crostau, as well as the bigger ones in Freiburg and Dresden Cathedrals stand out in my mind, although the Dresden organ has had certain alterations made to it in the voicing.

I'll stop now now or this could go on all day

Best Wishes from Ian
                 

David Drinkell

#13
Thank you, Ian, for a fascinating post.  I wish you would go on all day!  The biggest gap in my organ education is that I have no first-hand experience of instruments in Holland or North Germany - although I conducted a concert in the Grote Kerk at Breda a few years ago, it didn't include the use of the organ.  One day, I hope to put that right.

One aspect of this thread that we haven't mentioned is the ability to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  An example which comes to mind is at the First Presbyterian Church in Dromore, Co. Down.  The organ was a completely predictable 1937 two manual by Evans & Barr of Belfast - Great to Fifteenth, Swell to 4' and two reeds, two extended woody pedal stops.  Honest and competent, but nothing exciting, even by E&B standards.  In 1998, Wells Kennedy restored and rebuilt it with new slider sound-boards, adding a Twelfth to the Great, a Mixture to the Swell and a couple of 4' stops to the Pedal.  Most importantly, though, they revoiced and rebalanced all the pipe-work. I was consultant on this job (not an onerous task, merely confirming that the proposals were sensible and that the firm would do a good job) and played at the re-opening.  The difference was incredible.  A tired old nonentity had become a beautiful and impressive musical instrument.  For its size and disposition, I can think of few others to match it.

http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=D05674

I have kept quiet about Coventry because I have neither played it nor heard it do more than accompany a week-day Evensong.  It seems to be universally admired, though, although Rupert Jeffcoat used to reckon that the positioning made for an amount of stereophony which had to be taken into account. The same, of course, applies to a number of instruments, one way or another.

Blackburn - I was interested to read pcnd's proviso about liking it before the enlargement of 2001/2002.  I think Blackburn is the only CofE cathedral that I've never visited, so I'm completely ignorant of the organ, the acoustic or anything else.  Looking at it, one would imagine that the additions would have increased its scope, particularly in accompaniment (this is not to criticize what was there already - some of those allegedly neo-classical jobs were a lot better at accompaniment and Romantic music than is often admitted).  Do the additions not chime in very well, or did they alter the original stuff to its disadvantage?

I've just remembered - I haven't been in Birmingham Cathedral, either.....

pcnd5584

Quote from: David Drinkell on July 27, 2015, 02:33:25 PM
Thank you, Ian, for a fascinating post.  I wish you would go on all day!  The biggest gap in my organ education is that I have no first-hand experience of instruments in Holland or North Germany - although I conducted a concert in the Grote Kerk at Breda a few years ago, it didn't include the use of the organ.  One day, I hope to put that right.

One aspect of this thread that we haven't mentioned is the ability to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  An example which comes to mind is at the First Presbyterian Church in Dromore, Co. Down.  The organ was a completely predictable 1937 two manual by Evans & Barr of Belfast - Great to Fifteenth, Swell to 4' and two reeds, two extended woody pedal stops.  Honest and competent, but nothing exciting, even by E&B standards.  In 1998, Wells Kennedy restored and rebuilt it, adding a Twelfth to the Great, a Mixture to the Swell and a couple of 4' stops to the Pedal.  Most importantly, though, they revoiced and rebalanced all the pipe-work. I was consultant on this job (not an onerous task, merely confirming that the proposals were sensible and that the firm would do a good job) and played at the re-opening.  The difference was incredible.  A tired old nonentity had become a beautiful and impressive musical instrument.  For its size and disposition, I can think of few others to match it.

http://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=D05674

I have kept quiet about Coventry because I have neither played it nor heard it do more than accompany a week-day Evensong.  It seems to be universally admired, though, although Rupert Jeffcoat used to reckon that the positioning made for an amount of stereophony which had to be taken into account. The same, of course, applies to a number of instruments, one way or another.

Blackburn - I was interesting to read pcnd's proviso about liking it before the enlargement of 2001/2002.  I think Blackburn is the only CofE cathedral that I've never visited, so I'm completely ignorant of the organ, the acoustic or anything else.  Looking at it, one would imagine that the additions would have increased its scope, particularly in accompaniment (this is not to criticize what was there already - some of those allegedly neo-classical jobs were a lot better at accompaniment and Romantic music than is often admitted).  Do the additions not chime in very well, or did they alter the original stuff to its disadvantage?

I've just remembered - I haven't been in Birmingham Cathedral, either.....

Firstly - I must concur with David - Ian, please give us more of this, it's absolutely fascinating.

David (in haste, since I need to be at the Minster shortly), with regard to Blackburn - it is simply that I have not played it since the additions, so I cannot comment on thses, although many of them appear quite sensible on paper.

More later....
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

Ian van Deurne

Thanks everyone for your kind comments about my last post. I'll therefore start this one where I left off, at Dresden and with Gottfried Silbermann, who in his Saxon homeland is still held in the same high regard as Antonio Stradivari enjoys for stringed instruments.
This is the main reason why so much of his work has been preserved unaltered, even throughout the 19th century when many organs from the Baroque age were taken down, rebuilt or altered beyond recognition.
       Silbermann built three organs in Dresden, which was known throughout Europe as an architectural masterpiece. The first organ was in the Sophienkirche (Lutheran), containing three manuals, pedal and 31 stops. The original contract which still exists, was signed on May 10th 1718. Work on the organ in the church began sometime in June 1720 and was completed in the middle of November the same year. This is one organ that we know was played frequently by Johann Sebastian Bach, at least from 1733 when his eldest son, Wilhelm Friedemann obtained the organist's position. The second organ was built in the Frauenkirche (RC, which was regarded as one of Dresden's finest buildings). The organ contained three manuals, pedal and 43 stops. The contract was signed on 13th November 1732 but has disappeared. Work in the church started at the end of January 1736 and completed ten months later, and it is also known that Bach had also played this organ on several occasions.
       Silbermann's last and largest organ in the Hofkirche (later the Cathedral), Bach could not have known since he had died long before work had started. Silbermann himself had died before the instrument had started to be erected in the cathedral. This was carried out by his young nephew, Johann Daniel Silbermann (1717-1766) who made the journey from Strasbourg especially to do so, and Zacharias Hildebrandt (1688-1757), a former apprentice of Silbermann and now an independant organ builder. The organ was completed by the end of January 1755, after which it had its dedication service on 2nd February 1755. The organ cost the enormous sum of 20,000 Talers, excluding the case, the cost of which is not clear but was said have been around 10,000 Talers.
       During the night of 13th February 1945 the cathedral was reduced to a burnt-out shell during the unnecessary wanton destruction of this beautiful city by English bombers. Both the Sophienkiche and the Frauenkirche along with their Silbermann organs were completely destroyed. Fortunately, the Dean of the Cathedral, Heinrich Beier, with the help of local organ builders Jemlich, was able to remove all the historic pipework, keyboards, pedals, stop action, windchests, bellows, as well as the complete mechanical action of this priceless organ a few months earlier and store it in Kloster Marienstern, near the town of Kamenz, far away from any harm. However, there wasn't enough time to rescue the organ case, which on that horrendous night was turned into a heap of ashes. Today, organists and enthusiasts the world over owe a great debt to this noble man for his amazing foresight, who nevertheless that night was to perish himself during the fire-bombing of the city, along with 35,000 other inhabitants.
       The rebuilt cathedral was re-dedicated on 8th July 1960, after which restoration of the organ commenced. This was again carried out by the local firm of Jemlich Orgelbau. Apart from the mechanical and musical parts of the organ, the reconstruction of the original case was made by a careful study of old photographs. Finally at Whitsun 1971, the last and largest work by one of the greatest organ builders in history was reinaugurated during a joyous festival of music.

So far today. I have to go now because I have to tune a three-manual organ before I'll be allowed any dinner, but I hope to continue with this next time

With best wishes from Ian

JBR

Quote from: Ian van Deurne on August 14, 2015, 02:47:22 PM
       During the night of 13th February 1945 the cathedral was reduced to a burnt-out shell during the unnecessary wanton destruction of this beautiful city by English bombers.

I should like to say that I deplore the destruction of any organ as much as anyone here, and especially one of historical importance, but I feel that I must take issue with part of your words 'unnecessary wanton destruction'.

We should remember that this was war and that there was a great deal of destruction on both sides, including the City of Coventry which could be regarded as a parallel to Dresden in this respect.  Admittedly, no 18th century organs were destroyed in the raids on that city (primarily because there weren't any!), but I have a suspicion that organs were not in the minds of those on both sides who chose the targets.
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

Ian van Deurne

Dresden was completely unnecessary. The war was more or less over by then and there was nothing of stratigic importance anywhere near it. Churchill only sanctioned the bombing raid to "break the German spirit". It's not just a case of the destruction of priceless organ that is the problem here. Other German cities were bombed relentlessly, and many for good reason. Bremen, for example had its mediaeval heart ripped out of it, thus destroying the Martinikirche and the its organ. However, there was an aircraft factory located there which had to be destroyed. Likewise, Luebeck, anothe ancient Hanseatic city bombed mercilessly, and here, several historic organs were completely destroyed, including the two in the Marienkirche, which for organists is a total disaster, as the main four-manual organ, built by Haering in the 1540's was the instrument on which Dietrich Buxtehude composed all his later organ works. Likewise the three-manual organ in the so-called 'Totentanz Kapelle' in the same building, dating from a hundred years earlier, completely destroyed. But yes, this was war and so we cannot really wonder why this happened, since Luebeck also contained an ammunitions factory.
       
The Frauenkirche in Dresden has now been completely rebuilt, just as it was, both inside and out.
The organ case by Silbermann in 1735 has also been reconstructed, while the gold cross on the top of the building was made and donated by the people of Coventry in the spirit of friendship and unity with all the Christian churches in Germany.
     While I'm at it, although the case has been reconstructed, the organ inside it bears no resemblance to a Silbermann organ at all. I haven't yet played it, but my eldest daughter has but when I asked her about it she was strangely quiet;

Ian: "So, you've had a spin on the Frauenkirche organ then?"
Karina: "Yes, last Thursday week actually."
Ian: "So how did you find it?"
Karina "Was okay, I suppose...."

and that was it!

Best wishes,
Ian