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Is this the meltdown of the organ?

Started by David Pinnegar, September 02, 2015, 01:44:04 AM

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David Pinnegar

There are so many instruments on ebay at the moment, especially commenting that the instrument is in good condition but no longer used, and so many notifications of redundant instruments from Methodist churches from Graham Jones, that with the decline of the Church of England and the rise of the Praise Band I'm seriously wondering if this generation is the end of the organ . . .

Best wishes

David P

Nicolette

#1
Then let's hope the RCO's recent "150-for-150" recital series/year has gone some way to waking people up to the artistic and devotional value of the pipe organ.   
We need more outreach.  More piano pupils, young and not-so-young, should be introduced to the organ if the opportunity arises.   (It could work two ways and introduce people to the church at the same time...)
Orchestras could help by including more organ concertos in their regular concerts, particularly the 20th/21st century ones.  Somebody said to me recently that they'd never thought of organs and orchestras playing together, before, and they were intrigued!
Radio 3 could and should play more organ music.
As you say, David, plenty of redundant instruments are for sale online.   Are people buying them?
Praise bands are definitely a challenge.   I just wish churches that have good organs, but that want to introduce praise bands, would include both, rather than dispose of their organ.   I think that would help to make church attendance more appealing to all age groups, too. 
Of course, above all this is a general standard of organ-playing that is sky-rocketing!! 
N.

Nicolette Fraser, B. Mus., ARCO

Barrie Davis

One big reason is the cheapness of digital organs, but people do not realise the life expectancy of these.

Victor Potter

One of the problems in some churches seems to be the difficulty in finding and encouraging somebody of reasonable ability to commit and play regularly. Apart from unpreparedness to make what can turn into a huge commitment, many amateur organists do not appear to be either trained or prepared to work alongside other musicians or, indeed, to arrange or play worship songs to their best advantage, so as to weave the best of the traditional with the best of the new. Also there seem to be few opportunities generally for further training, even if individuals would like it. I feel that the problem is not helped by the intricacies and bands of what is known as the 'RSCM scale', particularly at the 'amateur' or small church level where the recommendations could be interpreted in some circumstances as a recommendation to pay below the basic minimum wage. At a professional level I have found the Incorporated Society of Musicians to take a much more constructive approach. The RSCM should be encouraged to review its recommendations in the light of contemporary values and culture.

JBR

Quote from: Nicolette on September 02, 2015, 08:35:47 AM
Orchestras could help by including more organ concertos in their regular concerts, particularly the 20th/21st century ones.
N.
Yes, that would be nice.  Unfortunately, I've heard that many orchestral musicians decry the organ, some to the extent that they regard it as not a 'real' musical instrument at all!
Ridiculous of course, especially as the organ predates just about all other musical instruments.
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

Nicolette

One of this season's concerts by the RSNO features both the Poulenc Concerto and Saint Saens' Organ Symphony in the same programme, which is great.   They obviously like the instrument, anyway!

But there certainly is some misguided intolerance of the organ, around.  My mother-in-law used to maintain that it was not an expressive instrument; and a church minister once told me he thought the organ was very over-rated.   However, the orchestra I'm lucky enough to be playing the Poulenc with, myself, soon, are enthusiastic about it and not long ago performed the Saint Saens, too. 

There is support out there for the king of instruments; as organists, we need to find ways of fostering it.   And rather urgently.
Nicolette Fraser, B. Mus., ARCO

David Pinnegar

#6
Quote from: Nicolette on September 03, 2015, 08:41:37 AM
There is support out there for the king of instruments; as organists, we need to find ways of fostering it.   And rather urgently.

Well this is why some years ago I put together a concert instrument electronically with extraordinarily comprehensive resources, capable of mastering the French baroque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2pdYou-Rs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1YcEjz8Xro to an extent difficult to find elsewhere in England, as well as the full romantic repertoire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_eJ60PmtM

Were this to have been a success I had in mind a four manual keyboard stack for a travelling instrument to take into schools, but needing the enthusiasm of good players willing to fly the flag for the project and participate.

It suffered a glitch around 2 years ago and has deteriorated since, starting with the combination pistons and extending to the Great, half the Swell and 3 extension unit boxes and has fallen into disuse.

I was so disheartened by the lack of enthusiasm for it, even as a sound laboratory with the flexibility it provided, by what I can only describe as pipe-snobs, and with increasing difficulties getting audiences to recitals - only 50 or so to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7AoF3zvcaI, one of the most special violin and piano performances anyone will ever have witnessed, and 16 to the recent harpsichord recital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5bS_aS_zo4 - that I have let the instrument fall into disuse and increasing decay.

It's only when we can get enthusiasm together and a critical mass of support that things will grow . . .

Best wishes

David P

hjtib1

There has been a recent noticable "slump" in the past few years in concert/event attendances too I think. Though there must be interest, as my Youtube channel is fast approaching 1 million views (within the next month or so).

Contra_Gamba

Take heart.  There were an awful lot of third rate instruments put into churches in the 19th and 20th centuries, we must not be sentimental about them.  The tragedy is that people get wedded to the load of old junk and then pay a willing organ builder to restore it and it's still tonally deficient!  The challenge is to find the first rate redundant organs worth keeping and put them where they will be used and valued even if means displacing a third rate instrument to make a new home for it.  The organ's reputation would be much higher, like in the Netherlands, if we had only quality instruments

I'm organist of the Ordinariate and Parish Church of the Most Precious Blood in London.  We rescued a redundant 2 manual Bishop & Son of 1881 and now use it as the Chancel Organ.  We also rescued the 3 manual Lewis & Co from St Mark's Battersea Rise and are currently fund raising to install this in the West Gallery and expect it to be at least partially working during 2017

Ian van Deurne

I cannot agree more, but please be assured; there are also a great many awful organs in the Netherlands as well, some of which I have been able to rebuild in a satisfactory condition, both mechanically and tonally, but there are some which are so bad the only possible answer was to build a new organ entirely, perhaps using some of the existing pipework, especially the Pedal basses which are usually the most expensive to replace.
As far as Britain is concerned, unlike the Netherlands, the organ doesn't have the same history of being the primary instrument for music for the general population to listen to as it was in times gone by. The organ in Britain seems to have specifically evolved during the last half of the nineteenth century for use solely in the religious services. The strict Calvinist church in the Netherlands at one time regarded organs as 'playthings of the Devil' or other 'Popish nonsence' and specifically forbade them to have any kind of role within the church. They were originally put there to entertain the townsfolk during evenings in the week or on Saturday afternoons. It wasn't until the 1640's that this stance was softened and the organ was first put to use to accompany the now popular congregational singing, mainly due to such influential people like Contantin Hugyens, who was the secretary to the Princes of Orange and a great lover of music. Before this the organ was an object of civic pride, with many towns trying to outdo their neighbours by building even larger and spectacular organs, the legacy of which we can enjoy in abundance today.
   This of course elevated the town organist to a high status, whereas in Britain there has never been such favourable conditions for musicians to take the organ so seriously. Therefore, even today, apart from the major churches and cathedrals, the organist has usually been originally a pianist who, out of a sense of duty to the church, or even to God, has played the organ on Sundays and at other times just to help out. He or she has never been encouraged to regard the church organ more than as an adjuct to services, and this is perhaps one of the reasons why many churches seem to be more than happy to employ a band of amateur musicians with guitars and tambourines etc, rather than give the organ much attention, especially when the time comes to have to spend a great deal of money in repairs and restoration. One English organ-building friend of mine told me a story about one particular church in Kent whose organ was on its last legs. Everytime he went to tune it during the past five years he had made notes in the tuner's book about what needed to be done urgently to keep the instrument playing, only to be consistantly told that the church had no money, so please could he continue to keep it playing for a few more years. The following visit, six months later, he was surprised and very annoyed to see that the same church had spent just over £2.500 in restoring and repainting the stone pulpit since the last time he was there.
This then seems to be the fundamental problem in Britain. Any church who regards restoring the pulpit over spending the same amount of money on restoring the organ deserves no music.  Unfortunately the organ will never enjoy the same status as it has in the Netherlands, or in Germany, where the organist is regarded as a civil servant and so enjoys a living salery, even in some more out of the way places.
   As regards the clergy, I don't think the organist can expect to receive much encouragement there, since most of them, with a notable few exceptions, seem to be oblivious to any kind of meaningful devotional music at all. Hence all the strumming and wailing and 'happy clapper' sort of inane tripe that seems to be on the increase.
   However, I do sincerely believe that the organ itself will come through all of this. It may never enjoy the same elevated adoration as it had in the 17th and 18th centuries, but it will prevail.
No other musical instrument reflects the grace of the human soul as it has always done, even in these days of material gain, its influence may be diminished, but it will never be completely silenced

Going on a bit now so I'll shut up

Best wihes from Ian   

JBR

Excellent post, Ian.
On the few occasions when I have had the good fortune to attend organ recitals in Germany and Holland, I witnessed cathedrals or large churches (Haarlem) absolutely full, sometimes with people bringing along camping chairs in the full expectation that no seats would be available!
I estimated that there were sometimes in excess of two thousand people present.  Compare this to recitals I have attended in English cathedrals, and you'd be lucky to see one-tenth of that figure.
A missionary from Yorkshire to the primitive people of Lancashire

Nicolette

However, it's good to see that tickets for the RSNO's concert with Thierry Eschaich (Poulenc and Saint Saens) on 20th November at the Edinburgh's Usher Hall are selling well and with still over two months to go.   
Nicolette Fraser, B. Mus., ARCO

KB7DQH

This was the second year the Midmer-Losh organ in Boardwalk Hall was used to provide "pre-show" entertainment for the Miss America pageant. Those familiar with the facility know the building can seat over 20,000... The restoration  is only 20% or so complete, the Right-Stage Chamber being the only one fully playable...

This weekend served as the point where the internationally-recognized organist David diFiore  performed his last service work and at least one "Farewell Concert" which I attended at the church he served for 45 years.  If you are not aware of the ability of an organist to "hold a congregation together" the events surrounding his decision to take up an organist/choirmaster and teaching positions half  a world away from "home" should give one pause, as most of those attending this concert (capacity crowd) were FORMER Church members who returned this evening to see him one last time and wish him well in his new endeavor.  That being said, the church is looking to find someone to fill his shoes and maintain a "traditional" musical presentation. However, in communicating with the organbuilder who has care of the instrument, it appears the Kimball/Balcom&Vaughan instrument is "on its last legs" and is in need of some serious work in the not-too-distant future if it is to continue serving a dwindling congregation (!)

Eric
KB7DQH
The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

Bombarde

This Definitely cannot be the case as there are going to be places with classical purists who will prefer/want the classical organ and Choral tradition.

As an organ student in my final year of school, I have decided to make it a mission in life to inspire/introduce as many people to the organ and also to teach people how to play it for fun. So far I have a few people at the school who want to start learning how to play and also to perhaps build a mini pipe organ.

I shall try and keep you all posted about this "mission"

Arun