Top Story in CBC News!!!

[KB7DQH]

A large cathedral in Montreal, Canada, containing a 100+year old Casavant-Freres pipe organ...
Closed in 2009 by the Fire department...
There are plans afoot to demolish the building...

A scene not unlike what appears appears on this forum's front page is threatening to take place again, but ON A MUCH_LARGER_SCALE!

Organ has 102 ranks...

Links from the article to the organ-builder's website contain more information...

There are folks there trying to save the building and organ (turn all into a concert venue) and likely could use our help...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/10/04/mtl-church-demolition.html

Group hopes to save Montreal church
Last Updated: Monday, October 4, 2010 | 8:34 PM ET
CBC News

The Très Saint Nom de Jésus church is facing demolition.The Très Saint Nom de Jésus church is facing demolition. (CBC)A group of concerned citizens is vowing to save a century-old church in Montreal's east end that is home to one of the largest pipe organs in North America.

The Très Saint Nom de Jésus church in Hochelaga-Maisonneuve was ordered closed by fire officials in 2009.

The provincial government has refused to classify the church as a heritage or cultural site, and the archdiocese of Montreal announced last week it was hoping to sell the land.

However, the church houses a Casavant Frères organ built nearly 100 years ago, and on Monday, a group of local residents and business owners met in an attempt to save the building and the organ.

Historian Robert Cadotte called the church "a castle." He and others at the meeting agreed losing the church and the organ would be a huge loss.

"Having this church demolished would be terrible for the history of this area and Quebec generally speaking," said Daniel Turp, MNA for Mercier.

However, the archdiocese says keeping the church is too expensive and it no longer wants to pay the $100,000 in annual heating and maintenance costs.

The archdiocese has proposed tearing down the church and turning the site into public housing.

Organist Philip Crozier wants to see the church turned into a concert hall. Organist Philip Crozier wants to see the church turned into a concert hall. (CBC)However, the mayor of Hochelaga-Maisonneuve has made it clear city council will not grant a permit for the building to turned into public housing.
Costly moving bill

The Archdiocese of Montreal did not return calls from CBC News on Monday, but it has said anyone who wants the organ is more than welcome to it — as long as they can pay the $1-million it would likely cost to move it.

Philip Crozier, who has played the Quebec-built pipe organ, said moving the priceless instrument would ruin it.

"[The church is] a very good concert venue, it's very much usable and why destroy it? Why remove [the organ] when it's already here?" he said.

The concerned citizens who met Monday promised to fight the church's demolition, saying with a bit of public money the church could be transformed into a concert hall.

A benefit concert to save the church is scheduled to take place at 8 p.m. on Oct. 22 at College Maisonneuve.

Eric
KB7DQH

[KB7DQH]

And a link to another article describing the pending  possibility of the loss of the church and its organ, and efforts to save both...

http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Organists+pipe+save+church/3623796/story.html


Eric
KB7DQH

[KB7DQH]

The plot appears to be thickening...

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Quebec+grants+restore+churches+excludes+Tr%C3%A8s+Saint+J%C3%A9sus/3628004/story.html

Elsewhere I located an example of  the saving of a church building and its organ, and its conversion into a concert venue...

http://recitalhall.fifthandcolumbia.com/index.html

Although the process took nearly a quarter century,  the building and organ WERE saved...




Eric
KB7DQH

[NonPlayingAnorak]

Looks like one for the FSSP. Anything to save it and keep it used as a church. Hopefully both church and organ will be kept... I know Casavant were the Rolls-Royce of Canadian organbuilders (Vierne wrote to Casavant about Dupré and some of the flattering comments he had made about Casavant organs he had played). Such a pity both the diocese and the regional govt. have decided not to preserve the building... it's far from my favourite large church, I don't especially care for the style, but I can see its merit, and its loss would be regrettable (as would its deconsecration - knowing that the Blessed Sacrament was no longer reserved there would somewhat dampen things for a lot of people).

[KB7DQH]

Okay... FSSP ??? ??? ??? 

Don't know how much force can be exerted by the RCCO (Royal Canadian College of Organists ;D

but I can't imagine they would stand idly by and allow one of Canada's finest pipe instruments end up under the tracks of a bulldozer... Especially as it was restored a decade ago...

Elsewhere I have a link to a .PDF file of an article written by none other than Henry Willis and he had little to complain about after visiting and playing this instrument some 90 years ago...

In the United States things get a bit tricky when it comes to religious structures and historical significance/preservation, as we have in our Constitution this "separation of Church and State".

From memory, mind you... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor prevent the free exercise thereof", etc...

Which means using public money to preserve a church is a No-No! Moreover, listing a church building as an historical landmark, and thus offering it "legal protection" also falls into that "free exercise thereof" trap... 

If "an establishment of religion" wishes to blow their building to smithereens so the property can be sold to whomever for a big wad of $$$  regardless of its "historical significance" then they have every legal right to do so here...

It almost happened to a church building near here in Seattle, Washington.  Fortunately for the building and the Austin organ located within, a private real-estate developer purchased the property with the idea of preserving the building, constructing their office building adjacent to,
and converting the building into a concert venue, even hiring a full-time organist  from
New York City...

Unfortunately the news media in this case has not for whatever reason elaborated on the nature of the building deficiencies which resulted in the local fire department closing the cathedral to public occupancy, the news articles only speak of "safety reasons"...

If the building isn't saved, the Archdiocese has stated the organ could be had  on a "free to a good home" basis...  although the cost of removing, transporting, reassembling, etc. provided one has a suitable structure to erect it in, would run into $CDN 1+million...

Of course, the organ "in situ" is perfectly voiced for the building it is in...

Eric
KB7DQH

[NonPlayingAnorak]

Okay... FSSP ??? ??? ??? 

Don't know how much force can be exerted by the RCCO (Royal Canadian College of Organists ;D

but I can't imagine they would stand idly by and allow one of Canada's finest pipe instruments end up under the tracks of a bulldozer... Especially as it was restored a decade ago...

Elsewhere I have a link to a .PDF file of an article written by none other than Henry Willis and he had little to complain about after visiting and playing this instrument some 90 years ago...

In the United States things get a bit tricky when it comes to religious structures and historical significance/preservation, as we have in our Constitution this "separation of Church and State".

From memory, mind you... "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor prevent the free exercise thereof", etc...

Which means using public money to preserve a church is a No-No! Moreover, listing a church building as an historical landmark, and thus offering it "legal protection" also falls into that "free exercise thereof" trap... 

If "an establishment of religion" wishes to blow their building to smithereens so the property can be sold to whomever for a big wad of $$$  regardless of its "historical significance" then they have every legal right to do so here...

It almost happened to a church building near here in Seattle, Washington.  Fortunately for the building and the Austin organ located within, a private real-estate developer purchased the property with the idea of preserving the building, constructing their office building adjacent to,
and converting the building into a concert venue, even hiring a full-time organist  from
New York City...

Unfortunately the news media in this case has not for whatever reason elaborated on the nature of the building deficiencies which resulted in the local fire department closing the cathedral to public occupancy, the news articles only speak of "safety reasons"...

If the building isn't saved, the Archdiocese has stated the organ could be had  on a "free to a good home" basis...  although the cost of removing, transporting, reassembling, etc. provided one has a suitable structure to erect it in, would run into $CDN 1+million...

Of course, the organ "in situ" is perfectly voiced for the building it is in...

Eric
KB7DQH

FSSP - the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter, a traditionalist priestly order within the Catholic church. Like the more famous Society of Saint Pius X/Lefevrists (of which they were a part), only they're in communion with Rome (unlike the Lefevrists). One priest near me - a married Anglican convert, Diocesan Organ Adviser for his diocese, and a former Assistant Organist at Rochester Cathedral to boot! - has a son who has recently been ordained in the FSSP, and has taken over a parish in Ottawa IIRC.

I think the USA's separation of church and state - along with the rigidity, inflexibility of its written constitution - is potentially very dangerous for its cultural and architectural heritage. Too many priests and bishops (including my local one) are bogtrotting ignorant tossers who should never have made it through seminary, people who care nothing for culture or heritage. Thank goodness for benevolent property developers!  ;D

Do hope the RCCO can help here. I shall see if we can whip up a storm here in the UK with our RCO too, help preserve the building and its organ =)

As for the vague reporting of the building's structural state? It's got coverup written all over it. Some absolute little w :-X :-X :-X :-X r of a priest dislikes its pre-Vatican II layout, wants a glorified wigwam (he needs to visit Clifton, which shows that these things absolutely do not bloody work, as well as looking like waste incinerators - other than Paddy's Wigwam in Liverpool, which, for all that I loathe the age and spirit that spawned it, manages to be magnificent nevertheless), an excuse has been made to get rid of the old church and, hey presto, a few mil in the bank to pay for the erection of a soulless, Godless carbuncle.

The Antichrist is alive and well and running both Catholic and Anglican churches (though not at the top, Benedict, most of the Cardinals, plus at least the two Anglican Archbishops and a few diocesan bishops are all right)...

Time I shut up before my local R. C. bishop sues me out of existence?  ;D

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[KB7DQH]

http://www.heritagemontreal.org/en/tres-saint-nom-de-jesus-church-2/

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Heritage Value

Built at the start of the 20th century, the Très Saint Nom de Jésus Church is located in the borough of Hochelaga-Maisonneuve. Its Roman and Byzantine inspired façade is marked by a light ornamental treatment and by its two imposing steeples. The interior of the church houses grand Casavant organs - Montreal's largest and the sixth most important in North America at the time of their installation – but also houses an important ensemble of painted scenes on the ceiling.

With its slender steeples, the church maintains a strong presence in the whole of the Maisonneuve district and in its urban landscape, already distinguished by its urban planning in line with the spirit of the City Beautiful movement and the Beaux Arts tradition. With its grand presbytery, today converted to meet community needs, the church remains the heart of an institutional core that has maintained its character and its place in community life despite the departure of the original religious vocation of the majority of the structures.

The church plays a key role as witness to its era: erected at the start of the 20th century, it was constructed to consolidate the community at the peak of the industrialisation and urbanization of  Montreal. It also incarnates, through its size and through the quality of its interior decor, the plan to install the seat of an eventual diocese for East Montreal.

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The Threat

The church closed its doors to its congregation in June 2009 at the end of a parish meeting, during which the archbishop of Montreal declared that they were incapable of assuming the church's upkeep nor the major masonry work necessary.

The church was subsequently declared dangerous to public safety in September 2010 by the Montreal Fire Department further to an engineer's report.

The physical condition of the church, the lack of a clear vocation and financial challenges led the archbishop to envision several scenarios, including the demolition of the church and the sale of its organs.

To help safeguard this site, write to us.http://www.heritagemontreal.org/en/contactez-nous/

So... No news is "good" news ??? 

Eric
KB7DQH