Forum Admin under fire

[organforumadmin]

Hi!


I'm under attack!  :-[  I should have expected it of course . . .  ;)  Being really flamed . . .


One question. Why are the cinema organs grouped with fair organs? They are serious instruments in there own right, and tbh, they should be in there own catagory. More than half the theatre organ stuff ive listened to and played is far from light. Some of it is a complete orchestral score, arranged for one person. I know that theatre organists put in a hell of alot of effort into what they are playing, it isnt an easy thing to do properly, it gets very complicated, especially when second touch comes in and waterfalling!


Well actually sometimes tonally there are similarities, strong trems too, and the most complicated 110 key Gaviolis are complex in their own right with arrangements having to be complex and artful, very often with a solo/accompaniment structure in the same idiom with highly coloured solo stops pitted against a background of flutes even despite their differences with Tibias.


In terms of orchestral arrangements, Percy Vickery loved playing Orpheus in the Underworld, and on the straight organ, Jeremy Filsell is a master of the orchestral transcription. So there's great overlap across the board.


So putting them together is no disrespect to Wurlys and fairground organ sections don't hit me between the eyes on other forums.


There is, of course, a direct crossover point in the automatic playing instruments from the Aeolian Organ company for whom esteemed composers such as Moszkowski composed (Opus 90, the manuscript of which is in a friend's collection), demanding harps and other effects common to the cinema instrument and the Welte instrument at Saloman's House at Tunbridge Wells.


So the genres share commonalities of repertoire, style of arrangement, tonal structure and often mechanism which I have suggested therefore can be usefully explored together.


Perhaps "orchestral organs" or "unit orchestras" should actually be considered in the same category as French Baroque instruments which replicated the brass bands of their day. And of course the "unit orchestras" shared a common purpose in the theatre that orchestrions played in the dance halls . . .


So I hope to be forgiven for drawing together such similarities . . . and I'm really looking for that DYNAMITE that excites passions enough to start some discussion on this forum!

I note that NPOR does not include the Salomon Welte instrument, so in fact drawing automatically playing instruments into the genre might help towards recognition and preservation.

Best wishes


Forum Admin

[barniclecompton]

Ive personally yet to hear a fair organ that sounds anything like a theatre organ myself. I have however heard classical organs which sound very similar to fair organs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ooYPEyYQ8
I dont find that anything like a fair organ at all. Turn the trems off on a theatre organ and you basically have a very orchestral organ. The tremulants, if done properly, should be similar to that of an orchestra or human voice.
A small spec theatre organ would probably have these ranks
Tibia, diapason, tuba, clarinet, flute, vox, viol, viol celeste. Albeit small and rather limited, it still does its job. Larger theatre organs in some cases are capable of playing most organ repertoire pretty well. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5hqI6l3V4&feature=related A little rushed, but the organ sounds fine as is the playing.
I like all three, classical organs were what i first started listening to, then theatre organ followed shortly, and then fair organ. All three of them are brilliant.
Its not just Wurlitzer who made theatre organs of course, there was : Christie (H.N.B), Conacher, Compton, Hilsdon, Jardine, Barbieri, Standaart, Moller, Kimball, Robert Morton, Page, Barton, Marr & Colton, Hillgreen Lane, Kilgen, Austin, Skinner, Welte, Walcker, Philips and more.  I think that they should be given a catagory of there own, given that electronic organs have there own catagory, and "classical" organs having a majority of the group.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_organ

[revtonynewnham]

Hi!


I'm under attack!  :-[  I should have expected it of course . . .  ;)  Being really flamed . . .


One question. Why are the cinema organs grouped with fair organs? They are serious instruments in there own right, and tbh, they should be in there own catagory.


Well actually sometimes tonally there are similarities, strong trems too, and the most complicated 110 key Gaviolis are complex in their own right
Forum Admin

Hi

Also, let's not forget that Wurlitzer also made mechanical organs (Band Organs in U.S. terminology) before they got into the theatre organ world.  (They also built a fair number of church organs as well).

I'd like to see a section dedicated to the Reed Organ.  Any chance David?

Every Blessing

Tony

[organforumadmin]

Hi!


In opening up YouTube today my suggested links included house organs which led to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5At0FSdY7w4


From the comments there by ttikker it appears that Wurlitzer did make self playing instruments with rolls.


Best wishes


Forum Admin

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

Wurlitzer did indeed make a few roll-playing instruments.  David Junchen's book "Wurlitzer" is a pretty comprehensive acocunt of the company's organ-related activities.  The book is published by ATOS, and is well worth tracking down if you have any interest in the Wurlitzer comapny and their organs.  There's even chapters about the "band organs", and, at the other end of the time line, the (in)famous Wurlitzer reed/electronic hybrids.

Every Blessing

Tony

[KB7DQH]

Hmmm.... One realizes there are TWO organs installed in  what is now called Boardwalk Hall... and the second, smaller instrument built by Kimball installed in the Ballroom, was capable of being played with paper rolls... The ACCHOS in their restoration of this instrument has modernized the  electric action with solid-state relays and the Kimball organ once restoration is completed (any day now) will be playable from a MIDI interface... The console was sent to Las Vegas NV for restoration and MIDI conversion, and if memory serves me if the pipework gets done first the organ can still be played from
a MIDI source.

Both Boardwalk Hall organs thus "blur the lines" between what one defines as a "theatre" versus "classical" or even "fair" organ based on previously postulated definitions... Especially the Midmer-Losh... as some of its manuals are fitted for Second Touch :o :o :o  has a full percussion section including a Grand Piano. :o :o :o

So... What exactly IS the world's biggest musical instrument?  My best guess is one could call it an "everything organ" :o and leave it at that ;)

Eric

[David Pinnegar]

One question. Why are the cinema organs grouped with fair organs? They are serious instruments in there own right, and tbh, they should be in there own catagory. More than half the theatre organ stuff ive listened to and played is far from light. Some of it is a complete orchestral score, arranged for one person. I know that theatre organists put in a hell of alot of effort into what they are playing, it isnt an easy thing to do properly, it gets very complicated, especially when second touch comes in and waterfalling!


Well actually sometimes tonally there are similarities, strong trems too, and the most complicated 110 key Gaviolis are complex in their own right with arrangements having to be complex and artful, very often with a solo/accompaniment structure in the same idiom with highly coloured solo stops pitted against a background of flutes even despite their differences with Tibias.

Hi!

Whilst on another thread Forum Admin has defended this position in terms of similarities of unit orchestras, instruments for entertainment and dancing accompaniment, finding accidentally today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90LAXmRwtUQ
I'm inclined to disagree strongly with Forum Admin . . .

Best wishes

David P

[KB7DQH]

I'm inclined to disagree strongly with Forum Admin . . .

::) ??? :-\ ???

I can understand the confusion as these instruments (Gaviolli) tend to be tonally somewhere between the "Western Continental European" and points further East and North...

As nearly all of what culturally "is" North America was imported from Europe... This Dutch "entertainment" organ style has been "rolled" into instruments which here we call "barrel" or "band"
organs... and the more "religious"  instruments blended all European styles (heavily influenced by the likes of Hope-Jones, Skinner, Harrison...) into something called the "American Eclectic"...

And into the Theater came the silent film, and soon followed the "unit orchestra"... suitably optimized... and like the banjo, became a "uniquely American musical instrument"...

Eric
KB7DQH