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Welcome to player of an inspirational instrument and recommended CD

Started by David Pinnegar, January 19, 2011, 04:47:30 AM

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David Pinnegar

Hi!

It's great to welcome a new forum member who's a greatly inspirational player and wonderful advocate of all things superbly organistic.

From the spec of the instrument he plays:
http://www.organanoraks.com/pcndap01.html
which includes a very spectacular en chamade trumpet his CD
http://www.organanoraks.com/pcndcd1.html
which includes a greatly interesting programme is certainly going to be worth buying . . .

I've put one on order and look forward to hearing it, and hope that other members will enthuse likewise.

Best wishes

David P

NonPlayingAnorak

Aha! I thought when I saw the 'pcnd' in one of those URLs that it'd be the Wimborne-based member of The Other Forum... Then I got off the Blackberry-oriented version of the forum to the full one so I could click on those UTRLs and, hey presto, sure enough. I dare say I'll end up winding him up a bit with my love of big romantic 'octopods' (I know he reserves a special distaste for Hele organs) and my general dislike of most things Ralph Downes (people have been shot for less than what he did to the Gloucester Cathedral organ - that was criminal vandalism of the highest order!) and my distaste for most things Organ Reform Movement, due to the ruination and sometimes total destruction of fine organs it brought...

Welcome also to "maestroldfield", who is, if I have identified him correctly, the opposite of Tony Newnham: David Oldfield is not a Baptist and he moved south from Yorkshire not the other way round!  =)
He's organist at All Saints' Woodham, here in Surrey, with its fine small 3m Arthur Harrison - another of PCND's favourite organbuilders =P - and he's an excellent musician and general-purpose down-to-earth nice guy.

Brigadeir998 (the mis-spelling is deliberate, the result of a mistake made years ago when adopting that moniker for use across the internet) is my 12-year-old brother, who does not even know the first thing about organs, let alone play it (though I can't talk on the latter). What on Earth is he doing here?

pcnd5584

Thank you both for your welcome(s).

I am sorry it has taken me a while to reply - I am in the middle of 'exam season' and I have more work than I can shake a proverbial stick at - in any case, I am so busy, I have no time to be shaking sticks at anything....

I look forward to some stimulating (good-natured) sparring with NonPlayingAnorak - who might be surprised at some of my viewpoints and may even be stunned at some of my choices, were I to post a list of 'favourite English  cathedral organs I have played'.
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

organforumadmin

Mention of the CD was made on another thread - a hint of how this instrument is spectacularly "different" - and how the instrument matches the temperament of the player as we have seen on the other thread recently is given by the photo on the cover:

As you can imagine, those fiery trumpets don't disappoint . . .


The CD is well worth buying . . .


http://organanoraks.com/pcndcd1.html


Best wishes


Forum Admin

pcnd5584

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 23, 2011, 11:14:21 AM
Ooh, really thin-scaled party horns. I'll withhold judgement, never having heard this organ, but such things are rarely pleasant...


[Moderators would not normally approve this post. Were the writer to have heard the use of these "party horns" in the two E7 chords on the 4th beats of the bar of the 3rd Mendelssohn sonata in the 6th and 5th bars before the reversion from the A minor section into A major, the writer would beware the sharpness of response he might receive from the player . . . Recommend buying the CD to hear it . . . Forum Admin]

Yes, they are of small scale. If one is expecting a fat Harrison-esque Tuba, which is able to give a good account of such pastiche pieces as Cocker's Tuba Tune, then there will be a measure of disappointment.

However, if one does not try to make this stop do something it was probably never designed to do, then it can be very exciting - even exhilarating.

Used, as Pierre Cochereau used the 'Boisseau' chamades at Nôtre-Dame de Paris, in chords (with or without mixtures), or with the Swell coupled, this stop can be most effective.

The Minster organ is not an instrument at which one can simply sit down, grab a few 'usual' combinations (or even use 'textbook registration'), and necessarily obtain a good effect in this somewhat arid acoustic. This organ is more difficult to get to know. It does not give up its secrets easily. It takes time to get to know what works - and what does not.

However, as David has said - buy the CD (please) - and hear it for yourselves.
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

pcnd5584

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 23, 2011, 04:10:30 PM
For my money, you just can't beat a Rothwell Orchestral Trumpet - big(ger) in scale, incredibly flexible, doing everything a Tuba or chamade can do as well as being a good chorus reed. H&H Tubas are a bit thick for me - though I do like a good Father Willis Tuba! That at Blenheim Palace is fabulous, not fat at all, just a searing shaft of golden sunlight. I just tend to find such thin chamades to be too buzzy and thin in sound.

I suspect that the whole thing could be explained if PCND were to name his favourite present-day American organ builder. Mine's Schoenstein, for the record, with Lively-Fulcher a close second.

I do not actually have a favourite American organ builder. I tend to prefer certain English firms, together with a few on continental Europe.

For the record, where would I be able to hear a Rothwell Orchestral Trumpet - in its original state, please?

Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

pcnd5584

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 23, 2011, 06:27:51 PM
St Paul's Cathedral, Dundee, for one. Largely an early 1870s Hill, rebuild by Rothwell in 1937, then subsequently minor alterations made (and a new console to replace Rothwell's) by HNB in 1975. The NPOR survey has a number of inaccuracies (I think) - it calls the Orchestral Trumpet 'Grand Trumpet', which I think is wrong (though the pipework definitely hasn't been revoiced), and I'm certain there's an Orchestral Oboe on the Choir too. I'm told All Souls' Ascot has one, just called Trumpet. St George's Windsor has one too - which I was told by Mark Venning (IIRC) had not been revoiced. St Botolph Bishopsgate has one too, I think (simply called 'Heavy Reed'), but the instrument has been unplayable since the IRA bombing. In any case, this could predate Rothwell's work (NPOR suggests it might), so it could be by Lewis, Walker, Norman & Beard or Spurden Rutt. Difficult to say.

Thank you for this.

You may be correct about Dundee. However, I have played for a number of services and concerts at both Coventry Cathedral and Saint George's Chapel, Windsor Castle. I think that it is quite possible that the Orchestral Trumpet (which is partnered with an Orchestral Clarion) on the Solo Organ on the latter instrument was at least revoiced - if not actually new. To my ears, the stop at Windsor has nothing in common with any Tuba I have ever heard, but sounds quite similar to the Orchestral Trumpet (which also has an Orchestral Clarion) at Coventry - prior to the unfortunate revoicing a few years ago.

In fact, that at Coventry has been altered on two occasions. Initially, this was because someone wished to add a Tuba in memory of David Lepine, the first organist of the new cathedral. After some consideration, it was felt that this was simply not an organ in which a Tuba would sit well, so the Orchestral Trumpet (on 300mm pressure) was revoiced with slightly thicker tongues - but still having a wonderful fiery tone. More recently, it has again been revoiced - arguably to its detriment. It has lost that edge and éclat. Previously, adding the Orchestral Trumpet and Orchestral Clarion to the full organ almost left scorch marks down the Nave.

Again, to clarify, the like-named stop at Windsor has, to my ears, much of the vocal quality of the Coventry reeds - which were, of course, new in 1962. I strongly doubt that this would have been achieved if the pipes, reeds, shallots and boots, etc, were as left by Rothwell. It is also doubtful that Rothwell voiced it like this in the first place. Reeds such as these would have been unlikely to be popular in the 1930s.

The instrument at Bishopsgate has two names for many of the stops. Indeed, on the stop key in question is engraved the legend 'Heavy Reed 8'; however, the 'old' (or actual) name for this rank is 'Solo Trumpet 8'.   
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

pcnd5584

Quote from: organforumadmin on July 23, 2011, 10:37:27 AM
Mention of the CD was made on another thread - a hint of how this instrument is spectacularly "different" - and how the instrument matches the temperament of the player as we have seen on the other thread recently is given by the photo on the cover:

As you can imagine, those fiery trumpets don't disappoint . . .


The CD is well worth buying . . .


http://organanoraks.com/pcndcd1.html


Best wishes


Forum Admin

Thank you for your kind advertisement, David.

However, I am slightly alarmed to learn that I am fiery....!

Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

David Pinnegar

Quote from: pcnd5584 on July 23, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
However, I am slightly alarmed to learn that I am fiery....! [/font]

:) ;) :D ;D They say that pets are like their owners - organs keep their pets too - they're called organists!

Jesting apart, however, a comment in general rather than specifically to these trumpets is that organ tone and timbre is all about harmonics. Adding harmonics together with stops that fit together to make "sense", to make order in tone (and for this reason I have analogised the Organ with Greater Architecture in Atheist's Corner).

There are three types of trumpets - the Tromba types loved by the likes of Arthur Harrison with which he'd add a Harmonics stop including the 7th harmonic - and to this one can add Nones and 11th harmonics, ordinary common garden standard workhorse trumpets, or trumpets containing many high harmonics which can be used alone, or with a Cornet to fill out in pungency, or with 8ft flute with or without Principal and or Cornet to add together in the manner of the French Grand Jeu or registrations for Corette Bass de Trompete etc.

Party horns are really great and joyous! I like parties!

Best wishes

David P

organforumadmin

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 24, 2011, 01:15:11 AM
How would you class untouched Father Willis chorus reeds? To me, whether called Trumpet, Tromba or Posaune, they all sound quite brassy, with tremendous power, lots of fire, colour, brightness and 'clang' without ever being thin. There's just nothing quite like them - full organ at Ewell Parish Church, complete with a full 16-8-4 reed chorus on two manuals (although the Swell 16ft was quite mild) was utterly thrilling.


I am commenting on this post to remind people that this is the sort of civilised question that helpfully advances organ appreciation and knowledge and hope that members may comment on this post rather than others currently dominating discussions.


Best wishes


Forum Admin

David Pinnegar

Hi!

Having bought the CD from PCND's website, it's one that I recommend should go into anyone's collection of favourite experiences of organ music. The disc covers areas of repertoire that are less frequently heard but which are delightful and deserve a more frequent airing . . .

There's lots of good stuff on it past the initial shock of the full blast of ceremonial trumpets in fanfare - GREAT!

The organ is a fascinating instrument and it begins to be mind boggling when one starts to look at the specification, combining as it does pipework from the 17th century. That such pipework can be used to contribute and blend in to an instrument still in use hundreds of years later is testimony to the eternal powers that the organ symbolises.

However, it makes it a difficult instrument to play to the uninitiated, I'm sure and to that end, the playing we hear in the recording is exquisite.

An early track is the Mendelssohn 3rd Sonata which somewhat fascinates me. Upon first hearing it, with knoweldge of Mendelssohn's Songs without Words, I thought it rather mathematical and unbending . . . and upon enquiry with the organist he said that he didn't like it pulled about too much. This led me to start looking at the score and sightreading it on the piano and then the organ . . . and the nature of the work becomes apparent. Possibly the Songs without Words were actually written by Felix' sister, Fanny . . . and Felix's own compositions may well be rather more Teutonic. . . .

In fact the fugal nature of the writing, in my opinion, is a cross between a hommage to Bach and the romanticism of Liszt, the recurring 4 note theme of the sonata pressaging Liszt's BACH which I assume was later . . . But the fugal writing means that no leanings are possible within the tempo to allow phrasing to sing in a pianistic way, there being an equally important theme developing shifted below it . . . and so requiring the extactitude of timing in the playing.

Having understood the piece more in this way, coming back to the recording one finds an exemplary performance with minute attention paid to detail and expressing great spirit, power, depth of emotion, altogether expressing the glory of the organ and its music and taking advantage of some unique resources that this particular instrument at Wimborne Minster provides.

It's an authoritative performance on an exciting instrument and a recording well worth buying.

Best wishes

David P