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A spicey temperament the piano is great for beginners!

Started by David Pinnegar, January 20, 2011, 06:15:24 AM

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David Pinnegar

Hi!

I have this afternoon tuned a neighbour's upright as a favour . . . first time I have come face to face with an upright in battle, and finding the spots to insert the wedges was a challenge . . .

It was a ghastly upright, not tuned for years as my neighbour found the pro chap rather weird . . . and it was a semitone down. I'd love to have brought it up to 440 but wanted to do a quick job on this occasion and, being used to tuning unequally, it received my usual treatment - a temperament near to Werkmeister and not quite as strong as Kirnberger. This seems to have received a bit of attention lately in the USA - http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1599324/1.html

I didn't have time to deal with the top two octaves . . . and always treat those seperately in any event, and as the neighbour's daughter is a beginner on the very early grades, going right up there is a rarity, so I'll go back and finish it off rather more at leisure. But the effect was interesting - the temperament is the strongest I dare use on a piano and it gives a very good range of key colours. The importance of this is a wonderful purity and harmonious comfort in the home white keys . . . and this to the child was really great and encouraging. She's not going to be playing in C sharp for a long while yet - so she certainly does not need equal temperament!

When the daughter played one of her pieces, probably A minor or something like that, the sound of the formerly horrible piano became very harmonious, beautiful and charming and she was clearly beguiled by it.

Potentially this can generate so much enthusiasm!

In contrast, equal temperament is always so "on edge" and boring too. Make a wrong note on a strongly flavoured temperament and the instrument will sharply tell you all about it. . .

I wonder if piano tuners are locked into equal temperament simply because they have been trained to achieve the exactitude of being able to do it . . . it has become a challenge that they have to conquer, as a matter of professional pride. It certainly doesn't add to the music.

It's apparent from my American discussion that the professional tuners over there only dare play with the temperaments departing from equal by a cent here and there, and that people argue over hair splitting schemes about which cent where should be moved . . . From memory, my tunings depart from the norm by up to a full 12 cents . . . and have lovely thirds approaching purity in C, F and G. Yummie! Who likes hot curry? Or should we be confined to Pizza with neither chilli nor anchovy?

Best wishes

David P

NonPlayingAnorak

#1
David, this is all very well, but there is some music which simply does not work in unequal temperament. I remember watching one of your videos of [removed] at [removed], playing Chopin: while his playing was passably good, though not remarkably so, it was made painful to hear by the piano's inappropriate tuning to an unequal temperament. One size does not fit all! Some music, predating ET, works best with an unequal temperament: some other music simply does not work without ET. I know that my mother has expressed an interest in performing her piano sonata at Hammerwood, possibly a song cycle (as yet unperformed) which she wrote a few years ago, but, having been written with the rich, ET tone of her 1917 Bosendorfer, an early Bechstein tuned to UT would be a disaster second only to a modern, brassy, sharp-tuned metallic-toned Steinway. On the other hand, if you wanted to play from Bach's Well-Tempered Klavier, your Bechstein would be rather more suitable than our Bosendorfer.


[Names removed by Admin on account of damage of reputation of significantly professional performer by text irrelevant to temperament subject issue italicised above]

organforumadmin

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on January 20, 2011, 07:48:11 AMunequal temperament: some other music simply does not work without ET. I know that my mother has expressed an interest in performing her piano sonata at Hammerwood, possibly a song cycle (as yet unperformed) which she wrote a few years ago, but, having been written with the rich, ET tone of her 1917 Bosendorfer, an early Bechstein tuned to UT would be a disaster second only to a modern, brassy, sharp-tuned metallic-toned Steinway.


Please would you kindly observe some degree of relevance in threads. This thread is about the suitability and advantages of providing calm harmonious well tuned and enjoyable home keys in the early stages of musicianship rather than the purposes of virtuosity.


Admin

NonPlayingAnorak

Barrie/David - yes, it may well be relevant to a beginner like this. However, this forum seems to be pushing an agenda of de-equalising everything, which simply isn't practical in the real world.

David Pinnegar

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on January 20, 2011, 09:36:11 AMBarrie/David - yes, it may well be relevant to a beginner like this. However, this forum seems to be pushing an agenda of de-equalising everything, which simply isn't practical in the real world.

I don't understand this comment and am not sure that an explanation can add greatly in relevancy to this thread. It is appropriate for young musicians playing in ensembles, brass and string particularly, as well as those singing in choirs to be very aware of pitch relationships and perfect intervals and temperaments which fit those requirements in the home keys to let the mathematical errors of tuning add up in the remote keys with lots of black notes that aren't going to be used any time soon make a lot of sense pedagogically and musically.

Meanwhile because we know that legendarily keys were intended to have the aural effect of inducing different moods, and strikingly so to even the non connoisseur, it is important and relevant for musicians of all statures to be able to research and try temperaments out which demonstrate characteristics and make exploration both for self information and public demonstration and I do provide a platform for those who wish to make such explorations in a non-judgemental arena.

When such is the purpose of making available a recording or a video, it is important for performers to be able to do so without criticism of the standard of playing, of whatever merit, in the course of trying exploratory areas of repertoire for unblinkered scholarly research.

Music is nothing to look at on paper. It is only what we hear that matters. Criteria for criticism is often based so much upon what people are used to, in the same way that a child won't generally like beer, red wine or coffee, and indeed such likes would indicate a severe problem, whilst as an adult the same child is likely to develop the taste. It is only by experiment that one begins to understand the tastes of people who have grown up and even passed away. We are in that position with respect to composers including Bach, Haydn/Mozart, Chopin, Liszt and Cesar Franck and researchers such as the late Professor Jorgansen and infamous Dr Kellner.

However, many of those issues are discussed elsewhere and this thread is intended to be relevant to the pedagogical issues alone.

David Pinnegar