Loud Organs His Glory

[barniclecompton]

An interesting radio programme on BBCi Player about the Willis organ building company http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0103wyx/Loud_Organs_His_Glory/

[Holditch]

A good radio programme, well worth a listen

Hopefully more will understand the wonders of the instrument

[flared_ophicleide]

I was glued to that edition.  Fr. Willis is certainly a source of inspiration.

[AnOrganCornucopia]

Though he'd have been toast without his brother George and his son Vincent, arguably the greatest voicer and inventor in the whole family  ;D

[revtonynewnham]

Though he'd have been toast without his brother George and his son Vincent, arguably the greatest voicer and inventor in the whole family  ;D

Hi

I think you rather overstate the case here!  Undoubtedly George & Vincent made big contributions to the firm, but would it have succeeded without Henry's skill - and business sense, not to mention his tonal ideas which were somewhat different to the norms of the time.

Every Blessing

Tony

[pcnd5584]

A good radio programme, well worth a listen

Hopefully more will understand the wonders of the instrument

It is indeed interesting - and I would agree that it would be good to think that it introduced the organ to a wider audience.

However, I am not sure why they featured the organs of Winchester Cathedral and the Royal Albert Hall. Having played Winchester for both service and recital work (on a number of occasions), and having heard it many times under the hands of the sub organist at the time, I would say that it is not really recognisable as the work of FHW. It certainly lacks the vivid tone colours of, for example, the organ of Salisbury Cathedral. To me, Winchester appears to be devoid of any real personality, or tonal identity. I do not intend for this to sound harsh, just simply to query the choice of the first two instruments.

In the case of the RAH organ, I should have thought that the difference was glaringly obvious - this has not been a 'Willis' organ since the 1920s, when Arthur Harrison commenced his rebuilding and re-designing of the entire instrument - which entailed re-voicing, re-scaling throughout, together with much new work and with a major revision of the wind pressures. One only has to read the correspondence section of periodicals such as The Organ, to realise what a radical transformation it was. Whilst it was Willis' largest concert hall organ, I should still have thought that the instrument in Saint George's Hall, Liverpool (even in its present state) would have been closer in style to the work of FHW.

I wonder why the organs of Hereford or Salisbury cathedrals, Saint Mary's, Edinburgh* or those at the town halls of Oxford or Reading  were not chosen? Or, indeed, that the instrument in Truro Cathedral was not featured more prominently.



* Although this has been rebuilt and restored by H&H, arguably the FHW sound is more recognisable than it is at Winchester Cathedral.

[MusingMuso]

Though he'd have been toast without his brother George and his son Vincent, arguably the greatest voicer and inventor in the whole family  ;D

Hi

I think you rather overstate the case here!  Undoubtedly George & Vincent made big contributions to the firm, but would it have succeeded without Henry's skill - and business sense, not to mention his tonal ideas which were somewhat different to the norms of the time.

Every Blessing

Tony

=======================

Of Fr Willis's skill I have not the slightest doubt, but of his business skills I have considerable doubts, considering that he was a profligate spender, had a huge motor-yacht, (with a full-time permanent staff) and left the company almost bankrupt.

Amusingly, I cannot resist quoting Henry IV in "Howard Goodall's Organ Works,"when he said.....(I hope I get this right from memory).....

"My great grandfather was not inhibited by the 1889 briberies and corruption act. (Ed: I'm not sure if such an Act of Parliament was ever passed!) The usual thing was to have two patrons, each unkown to the other; with each patron paying a half and the church paying the other half. This made certain organ-building quite profitable."

Then he went on to reveal, "My great grandfather, thanks to a certain vicar, married his first wife's sister, which was then illegal. To this day, there is a Willis organ in the church, for which they did not pay and which doesn't appear in the books."

He was certainly a character!

MM

[AnOrganCornucopia]

Absolutely right, MM. FHW was no angel and indeed left the firm and family bankrupt. Really, what survives today, while it claims the Willis identity, is actually Lewis - John Courage's Lewis & Co (sans founder) having taken over the bankrupt Willis company. Somehow the Willis family managed to wrestle back control of it all and Willis & Lewis & Co just became Willis again...

PCND is also dead right - Winchester and RAH really don't sound like Willises. Exeter, Salisbury, Truro, Carlisle, Lincoln, Saint Paul's, Edinburgh - all better examples of the Willis cathedral organ. As for concert organs? Admittedly somewhat altered, there is still Huddersfield TH and St George's Hall Liverpool, plus other examples in places like Aberdeen, Ally Pally etc. One which I think should have been featured was one of FHW's personal favourites, that of Saint Dominic's Priory, Hampstead - it may only be 3m/35ss but it's instantly recognisable for THAT Willis sound, amply demonstrated here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOZjJISUGJo

Here's also a gratuitous opportunity to hear Truro being put thoroughly through its paces: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35GNrZnJyds

It's about time an hour-long (at least) TV documentary was made of Father Willis and his work. 27th February 2021 will be FHW's 200th birthday - that would, I think, be a good date towards which to work, giving plenty of time to produce a thoroughly high-quality assessment, which I hope would also showcase some of the Willis firm's present-day work, perhaps convincing people that they're no longer in the doldrums and are producing what I think are the best organs being built today in Britain...

Does anyone know what the pre-Courage, post-FHW Willises were like? CC URC Port Sunlight's 4/41 is quite a notable example... Also, what of FHW's last organ, St Bees Priory? That any good? Very odd spec - no flue double nor strings on the Swell! You'd have to couple it to the Choir almost all the time... St George's Gateshead is quite well known, but no-one seems to be able to give a definitive answer as to whether it's FHW or HW2...

[MusingMuso]

The Huddersfield Town Hall organ has been severely messed with over the years, but fortunately, the Swell and Great remain very recognisably Fr.Willis, if one avoids the new quint Mixtures. The Choir organ was altered to include mutations by Willis, (possibly in the 1950's), but it was never a success. The later Harrison pipework could only be an improvement, but of course, that means that the Choir organ is not remotely Willis these days.

The NPOR entry is lacking detail, because in 1965, I worked on this organ when Laycock & Bannister cleaned and overhauled things.

I think, as far as Willis organs go, this is a fine but not a-typical Fr Willis in character.

MM

[AnOrganCornucopia]

Thanks for that info.

Some other notable unaltered FHWs to consider including a selection of:
1864 - Reading Town Hall 4/37 (was 3/33 until 1882 when Solo became Choir and new Solo was added)
1866 - Saint Katherine Cree, Leadenhall Street in the City of London - 3/27, recent historic restoration by David Wells
1871 - Saint Augustine Kilburn 3/38 (should be 4/48 but Solo, several Pedal stops and Great Contra Tromba prepared for)
1873 - Saint Michael Tenbury 4/55 (not unaltered but still largely FHW, though incl. earlier pipes by Flight and Tom Harrison)
1877 - Union Chapel, Islington 3/37 (recently awarded a large sum by the HLF, so will be working beautifully by 2021)
1880 - Saint Dunstan Edge Hill, Liverpool 3/31 (sadly long unplayable - we can only hope that it could be restored by 2021)
1880 - Saint Stephen Edinburgh 3/32
1883 - Saint Dominic's Priory, Newcastle-upon-Tyne 3/30 (built alongside Hampstead, 5 stops smaller, otherwise nearly identical)
1888 - Saint Peter Brighton 4/43 (albeit the 17ths in the mixtures are now 26ths - easily reversed?)
1890 - Saint Martin Scarborough 3/38
1891 - Blenheim Palace 4/52 (how could I have forgotten this?! Spent many happy hours with this wonderful beast...)
1894 - Saint John the Baptist Cardiff 3/38
1897 - Oxford Town Hall 4/35
1897 - Haberdasher's Aske's Boys' School, Elstree, Herts, 4/36 (ex Hove Town Hall - soon to be restored)
1895 - Saint Luke, Kentish Town 3/33 (the Wedding-present Willis, which has had some renovation, redundant church reopened at Christmas as HTB Church Plant like St Peter's Brighton - organ used and cherished)

It would be interesting also to include some of his smaller organs - one of his small 2m village jobs like Saint Mary's Fetcham (which  is much more powerful than its 12 stops or so would suggest) and then something like All Saints Hastings' 3/25 which thinks it's much bigger than it actually is...

[David Wyld]

Absolutely right, MM. FHW was no angel and indeed left the firm and family bankrupt. Really, what survives today, while it claims the Willis identity, is actually Lewis - John Courage's Lewis & Co (sans founder) having taken over the bankrupt Willis company. Somehow the Willis family managed to wrestle back control of it all and Willis & Lewis & Co just became Willis again..

Actually this is not correct!

HW1 did leave things in a mess in 1901, but that didn't bankrupt either the firm or the family: The family did want to wind everything up and share out the 'dibs' but HW2 resolved to pay all fhis father's debts (when at that time they could actually have walked away from the situation) and in so doing he put both himself and the firm in a difficult position - which ultimately resulted in his failing health and mental breakdown. He died in 1927.

After Lewis got his own firm into financial difficulties (not for the first time) he was bailed out by John Courage, whom he knew through the Architect, Bentley and it was Courage who set up Lewis & Co. in 1901 - under the Co. Reg. No. 70718. Bentley designed and built the new Lewis factory premises at Ferndale Road in Brixton, again funded by Courage.

After the end of WW1 Lewis had lost the greater part of its Staff, John Courage had had enough of losing money via organbuilding ventures and Willis were looking for larger premises:  it was 'arranged' that the Partners in Henry Willis & Sons would purchase the shareholding in Lewis & Co. This had to be the case since at that time it was legally impossible for a Partnership - i.e. a non-limited Company - to take over a Limited Company. The sale of the shares was assisted by Courage himself who took a debenture over the Company with its new "Willis" Directors, loaning the money of the purchase of the shares by the Willis partners.  Due to the legal requirements, on the purchase of the Lewis shares, in 1919, the Company was then renamed Henry Willis & Sons and Lewis & Company Limited.

Of course the same thing had occurred in 1915 between Hill & Son & Norman & Beard Ltd..

John Courage remained on the Board of the Company for several years (his name/signature appears regularly in the Directors meetings book) and in 1926, or thenabouts, the Lewis part of the name was dropped - presumably there was a seven-year rule to be passed before the new 'owners' could revert to their own name.

I was appointed as Managing Director in October 1997 and arranged the purchase of the entire shareholding from the remaining family share holders in November of that year and it was as a part of THAT process that I discovered that, even though it had all been repaid, the Coutrage Debenture still remained on the Companies House records and an application for its removal was submitted and accepted. We (Henry Willis & Sons Ltd.) are still the same Company, registered under the same, originally Lewis & Co., registration number, 70718.


It's about time an hour-long (at least) TV documentary was made of Father Willis and his work. 27th February 2021 will be FHW's 200th birthday - that would, I think, be a good date towards which to work, giving plenty of time to produce a thoroughly high-quality assessment, which I hope would also showcase some of the Willis firm's present-day work, perhaps convincing people that they're no longer in the doldrums and are producing what I think are the best organs being built today in Britain...

We have been approached by two documatary makers in the recnt past, but are stuill unsure as to whether anything will come of this - I think much depends on funds for research.

Thank you for your very kind remarks regarding our new organs!  The newest, in Auckland, New Zealand, is being iopened by Olivier Latry on the 9th of June.  I'll post details of the prgramme under another thread after finding my way around the rest of the site.

There are a few YouTube clips of our new organ at The American Church in Florence - this is one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3aaf0S1HWY

I hope that the above has cleared up the matter of Willis & Lewis and that the Willis firm was never 'Bankrupt'!

David Wyld
Managing Director
HENRY WILLIS & SONS LTD.

[AnOrganCornucopia]

What happened to the Ferndale Road works? I tried finding it on Google Street View but it seemed to have been demolished. Are there any photographs of it?

Meanwhile, I look forward to further successes from the Willis firm - I am eagerly anticipating the reopening of the rebuilt Carshalton PC organ. I am also praying for a large new Willis split across the Quire of Gloucester Cathedral (seeing as the HN&B isn't going anywhere - nor should it) and also for Willis to rebuild the emasculated Canterbury Cathedral organ... Let me think about a few others for a while and I'll get praying!

How goes Leiden?

Also, can you tell us what happened to the ex-St Jude Thornton Heath all-enclosed Willis III?

[MusingMuso]

Oh dear!

Poor David always feels obliged to fly to the defence of the company, which must be very irksome. I think, if I were he, I would just go with the flow of organ folklore, because far from diminishing the company, I think it actually elevates it and confirms the strong will of the company founder.

Fr Willis was far from conventional, and in that respect, quite typical of so many great pioneeers and innovators.

A bit of sauce and whiff of scandal never did anyone any harm a few generations down the line, and in an odd way, it is the Fr Willis antics which always keep the name of the company at the forefront of the mind, and make for such excellent after-dinner conversation.

Another of my favourites concerns the time that the local headmistress wrote to the company complaining about the noise from the factory, when voicing-work had commenced on the heavy-pressure reeds for Liverpool Cathedral. This didn't include the Tuba Magna at that time; prompting Willis to respond with the knockout line:-

"I fear that there is worse to come."

Organ-builders are ten a penny to some extent, but great characters and eccentrics are rare.

MM

[David Wyld]

Oh dear!

Poor David always feels obliged to fly to the defence of the company, which must be very irksome. I think, if I were he, I would just go with the flow of organ folklore, because far from diminishing the company, I think it actually elevates it and confirms the strong will of the company founder.

It is irksome, but not for the reason you suggest: I don't only fly to the defence of the company, but I do OFTEN have to prevent the re-writing of history! I was alerted to the above by a past member of this group who felt that he could not respond himself.

I don't blame anyone for this, it appears to be the nature of things that items of "information" - whether fact or fiction - get repeated often enough to become truth. I have heard several "truths" over the years, including that of the Willis family getting their fortune from Brewing: obviously drawn from the Courage connection but totally 'made-up'.

As you say MM, the characters of some of my predecessors have provided dinner table stories for over a century, but when Bankruptcy is erroneously discussed, on Internet forums, then this will lead to the re-writing of history that we should ALL prevent, notwithstanding a good story!

I did thank Mr. OrganCornucopia for his very kind comments on our new organs!

By the way, I'm not usually awake at this hour, but I only returned from Auckland again on Sunday and am wide awake at 2.30 am !

DW

[Barrie Davis]

The Thornton Heath organ went to Japan or China, I have emailed Carlo Curley to try and find out what the precise situation is regarding this instrument. I will make a post when I have received a reply from CC but this may take a while.

Best wishes

Barrie

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

Many thanks to David Wyld for putting the record straight on Willis history - and for joining the forum - welcome!

I'd much rather have the real facts than the sort of hearsay that abounds in the organ world, and can make research very trying.  It's something that we run up against all too frequently on NPOR.  The sloppy reporting in the media - when they deign to say anything about organs - is equally infuriating.  A local news report has attributed Sheffield City Hall organ (http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N01130) to Father Willis!

Thanks again David

Every Blessing

Tony

[MusingMuso]

As you say MM, the characters of some of my predecessors have provided dinner table stories for over a century, but when Bankruptcy is erroneously discussed, on Internet forums, then this will lead to the re-writing of history that we should ALL prevent, notwithstanding a good story!


DW

=======================

Yes, I can understand the point being made, which is important. There is a world of difference between a company being "stretched", "insolvent" and "bankrupt," with the latter being rather terminal.

As David knows, the Willis sound would not be my first choice, but I think I can also agree with the fine tonal and build quality of modern Willis instruments. My own preference would lean towards a little more Lewis-style bodlness in the flues, combined with Willis style reeds, which I've always admired.

The propblem then, is that we would have an English version of the American Classic wouldn't we?

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

"My own preference would lean towards a little more Lewis-style bodlness in the flues, combined with Willis style reeds"
(Quote)

You do not even need to cross the Channel to find that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFdBQzTHzxA

Besides this, our own tastes are one thing, but what really matters for an organ is character. Nobody would
doubt about any Willis organ to be crammed with just that.

Best wishes,
Pierre

[MusingMuso]

Besides this, our own tastes are one thing, but what really matters for an organ is character. Nobody would
doubt about any Willis organ to be crammed with just that.

====================

I'm sure you're right Pierre, but having lived with one of the best Fr Willis organs in the land, (absolutely full of character), I felt that it had quite severe limitations in several important respects. I didn't like the fact that the Great flues lacked the towering sonority of Lewis, the fact that the Pedal organ was a collection of booming basses dominated by a hideously loud Ophicleide and the fact that the (unenclosed) Choir organ was fairly useless. On the plus side, the full Swell was probably superior to that at St Paul's Cathedral, and the pear-shaped Vox Humana the loveliest example outside Paris.

I'm less concerned with history than with what is happening to-day, which seems to be taking us back to all the same mistakes of yesteryear. In fact, I would probably look towards America for inspiration these days.

MM

[Pierre Lauwers]

Others could think and write the reverse, MM. That's the problem with the tastes.
And they have the same problem in the U.S. You cannot have a discussion about
Holtkamp (sr) there nowadays, so strong -and diverse- are the opinions.

Best wishes,
Pierre