Practice organ wanted

[diapason]

This is probably an impossibility, but I'm looking for that elusive animal, a cheap practice organ.  At the moment, I've got an old analogue Johannus Opus 230.  I rescued it as it was about to be thrown into a skip a couple of years ago, but it's now beginning to  crack up.  The amps are hissing and spitting and several notes only work intermittently.  I've been told that it can't be repaired as parts for the amps are obsolete.

So, I'd like to replace it with something which works and sounds reasonable as I don't have regular access to another organ.  A pipe dream is something like the Walker practice organ, but realistically it'll probably have to be another toaster.  Space is limited as I'm in a first floor flat with difficult and narrow access - the Johannus was a real struggle to move.    It also needs to be cheap as I'm medically retired.

If anyone knows of an organ going, I'd be pleased to hear about it ................ chamber organ less that 86" high?

Nigel

[barniclecompton]

Why not adapt it for hauptwerk?

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

A decent repair technician should be able to sort out amplifier problems - a couple of replacement amp modules should sort the problem if the parts really are unobtainable (which I seriously doubt on what is normally a basic analogue amplifier circuit.  Now if the problem is in the tone generators, then parts could be an issue, although new old stock is around.  Where are you located?  There's a list of technicians at http://www.organfax.co.uk/directories/service/ (no recommendation from me though - I've no experience of any of them) - or let us know where you are and I or other board members may well be able to recommend someone.

Every Blessing

Tony

[diapason]

Many thanks for the info.  I live in West Somerset - 12 miles from Taunton.  I've spoken to WM Organs in Highbridge as they used to sell Johannus before changing to Viscount (it was from them that I saved the organ en route to the skip).  I've also spoken to Ormatronix and am waiting for them to get back to me with more information.  But, both have told me that parts are obsolete and that it's not economic even to pay them to come down to look at it. By coincidence, a friend has a similar (but older) Johannus with the same problems.  I see from the link you sent me, Tony, that there's another engineer in Weston-s-Mare.  I recall his name  from when I used to live there and will give him a ring.  Hauptwerk sounds good, but I don't have the technical ability to convert the console.  In an ideal world, I'd find a small one manual pipe organ, but it's probably unlikely (although I'm keeping tabs on a gorgeous Hill in a tin tabernacle which isn't likely to stay open for many more years).

Many thanks for the advice - 'll let you know how I get on with another engineer.

Nigel

[diapason]

Well, a result!  John Roberts  from Weston is coming down next week to have a look at it. If I can get it fixed, even if it only lasts for another year or so, it'll be worth it.  Perhaps by then I'll have moved somewhere with more height and easier access.

Nigel

[barniclecompton]

Hauptwerk may not be so difficult as you may think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ4es3HOdzQ  this video surprised me with how easy it is to add midi to a console.

[revtonynewnham]

Hi Nigel

I like your idea of a small pipe organ - maybe a local organ builder can come up with something - or perhaps the local Organists' association may know of a suitable instrument - or the organ adviser (diocesan or other denominations).  Just beware - I obtained a 3-stop single manual organ that was going to be broken up - the soundboard was way past any hope of repair with the facilities that I have (but I did keep the pipes - reputedly Bishop).

Every Blessing

Tony

[Barry Williams]

I have been told that Ron Coates makes a single manual and pedal practice instrument that folds away into a wardrobe for a seriously small sum.  It uses a standard electronic keyboard and a standard pedal board.  This seems to be ideal for limited space and limited budget.

If pipes are desired but tracker action is not essential, it is possible to do something on the lines of the HNB 'Chester' organ, where two or sometimes three ranks are used on a small soundboard with a tiny console.  There are a number of organ builders who would build such an instrument, though obviously it would be more expensive than an electronic machine.  Care must be taken with second-hand pipes, for anything needing more than 3" wg or not having a low cut up will be unsuitable in the home.  Certain economies are possible in terms of space, if the organ is designed very skilfully at the outset.  I can provide more information if required.

Barry Williams

[diapason]

Many thanks for your advice.  I've spent the evening re-arranging furniture to fit the Johannus into my lounge (it was in a lobby off the hallway).  That at least makes it sound better and means I can practice in daylight rather than semi-gloom.  In the short-term, I'm hoping that John Roberts can fix the worst faults on the Johannus to give me a bit more time.  I also have a Viscount Cantorum keyboard which I use if I'm asked to play somewhere without an organ.  I've loaned it out at the moment, but it might be useful if the toaster is toast so to speak), especially if  Ron Coates could fit a pedalboard working through MIDI (not sure how that works.  Long-term, I hope to move next year and will be looking for enough space for a very small pipe organ.  A small unit organ like the Chester or the Osmond Priory (a lot of them around this area) would be ideal.  I've already asked a few local builders to keep an eye out for me, and I'm still very keen on the small Hill I mentioned earlier if that become available.

With grateful thanks for your help - especially for the heads-up on engineers who may be able to fix the old toaster.

Nigel

[David Pinnegar]

Hi!

It sounds as though your instrument is probably suffering from dirty contacts on the keyboard and not a lot else.

If you can get to the keyboards, you can wipe the contacts with very fine sandpaper and possibly spray with contact cleaner. You might usefully unplug and plug in again every plug and socket connexion as this will clean those contacts. The amps might be suffering dirty potentiometers but as long as you can get the signals going to them out on a couple of external wires you can plug them into external amps.

Service manuals are available from W M Greenhill from memory. If I see a circuit diagram I can probably advise on places in the circuits you might be looking for.

Best wishes

David P

[Colin Pykett]

These Johannus's are eminently repairable.  It is true they used analogue IC's which are long obsolete now, but as Tony said, they are still available and a repair man would be able to find them.  They used the Texas TMS3617 generator and keyer IC, and the Mullard/Philips/Signetics TDA1022 in the reverb units.  Everything else as far as I can recall is either industry standard stuff, or modern units could be used to replace power amplifiers.  I think I have some ancient schematics of them somewhere dating from about 1980.

But please do not use sandpaper on contacts - ever!  It will instantly remove any plating such as rhodium and (particularly) gold, as well as erode the surfaces so they drag when wiping.  This will eventually cause them to fracture, particularly as the material removed will thin the material anyway.  This model used multiple rhodium plated busbars in the keying and coupler systems - they do not carry audio signals but low level DC keying voltages.

The main issue is whether the repair costs will outweigh what you would have to shell out for a replacement.  Sticking my neck out, I should think it might be well worth considering at least this upcoming repair before deciding to ditch it for good.  You will probably be spending a few hundred rather than a few thousands.

I'm glad you have found a repairer, but Ron Coates near Dorking would be another.  His charges are on his website.

Colin Pykett

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

I know Ron (as does Colin) and I have one of his MIDI pedalboard units fitted to a pedalboard that I salvaged from my stalled home pipe organ project.  I've had no problems with it, other than contacts, and that's down to me trying to cut corners when I needed it operational in a hurry!  (My pedalboard was from a tracker instrument, so no fitted contacts). 

My practice instrument consists of a MIDI controller keyboard, an old synthesizer used as the controller for the upper manual, and the aforementioned MIDI-fied pedals.  The sounds are courtesy of a modest laptop running "My Organ" (no longer available) and MidiTzer software.  I did a write up a little while ago for the EOCS magazine.

Every Blessing

Tony

[diapason]

The wretched Johannus is now playing up having been moved.  The swell pedal now doesn't work, leaving the organ too loud to play in the flat.  I've had it apart and it seems to work using a small light (torch bulb) which responds to a photo-electric sensor.  I've no way of testing it.  Also, the swell and great are not in tune with each other - this has always been a problem but it's more noticable now that the organ is louder.  I'll wait for the engineer to come next week, but it seems to be getting potentially more and more expensive (and not worth it).  O for a pipe organ - at least you can see what's wrong and usually fix it  :-\

Thanks for all your advice - I may end up using the Cantorum + a MIDI pedalboard unless someone comes up with something secondhand.

Nigel

[Colin Pykett]

Oh dear, I'm going to be guilty of doing this one to death!  However certain things just seem to get me going  ..... !

These old Johannus analogues did no more than they said on the tin - they were cheap and sounded 'analogue'.  But they are still quite sought-after today for various reasons, some of which I understand and others which I don't.  One only has to look at the prices they attract on ebay for confirmation of this.  Ron Coates is currently advertising one on his website for £1450, which shows how well a 30 year old analogue organ can keep its value (I shouldn't think they cost much more than that new).  However one can usually get them for much less.  On the plus side, they were complete little things, with pretty much all the attributes one needed for a small home practice instrument.  In particular:

Their tonal structure was well developed and it extended way beyond almost anything else available at the price - from 16 foot to 1 foot with several mixtures.  There was also a tierce and celeste rank thrown in (on certain models - these came from a separate generator system so you had to pay a bit more).

They had a combination system of sorts, albeit blind and (I think) non-adjustable.

The console was pretty much entirely standard in terms of dimensions.

They had a proper coupler complement.

From what the owner says, if this was mine (which it isn't) I could more or less guarantee to get it all going again if I wanted to (I don't because I'm not in the business, but a competent repairer could).  All I'm saying is that it can be done.  For example, pulling the swell and great back into tune is trivially easy - just locate the appropriate top octave oscillator coils and adjust them carefully with a non-magnetic miniature screwdriver.  There are two master oscillators for each rank of generators to 'unlock' adjacent octaves.  I'm not encouraging the owner to do this if he isn't sure how (indeed, for health and safety's sake he emphatically MUST NOT in that case).   I'm merely indicating how simple some of his problems are to solve by a person with the necessary knowledge.

So if the owner does chuck it out, do so via ebay and see how much he gets.  I would be surprised if it isn't well into the three figures.

Colin Pykett

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

If the swell is a lamp/photocell arrangement, replacing the lamp will sort that - if it's marked, or if the type/voltage etc are marked or mentioned in any documentation (I know - old organ, owner's manual long lost!) it's a trivial fix.  As Colin says, tuning is also pretty easy - unlike the valve job I used to have with independent oscillators for every pitch.  Probably well worth spending the money on - even if you then want to sell it on in a while to get something better.

Every Blessing

Tony

[diapason]

Thank you again, gentlemen.  I certainly don't want to cause controversy.  My main aim is for a cheapish practice organ which sounds acceptable.  If I face up to it, the Johannus will never sound great, but it would serve for a while if I can get it working properly.  I also have to consider that getting the Johannus out and another organ in will be a major undertaking because of acess problems - it took five men to manhandle the Johannus up the outside stairs.

As far as repairs go, my main problem seems to be actually getting someone who can economically come down to the depths of Somerset to look at it.  I've contacted someone who has agreed to come (but I've been told by someone who has used him before that he's unlikely ever to show up).  Two other engineers from the Midlands have declined to look at it.  I must confess to having had a go myself.  I've made some slight improvements, but wasn't able to identify the correct oscillators to adjust the tuning.  The lamp on the swell pedal is working, so I assume that the sensor has packed up.

Plan A must now be to wait and see if the engineer shows up next week and, if so, what he can repair.  Plan B (if Plan A is negative)  , is to put it on Ebay for spares/repair and look for something else.  A local dealer has told me that he's got a Gem and a Viscount, both early digital, in stock at the moment.  I may have a look at them sometime.


Thank you again for all your helpful advice.

Nigel

[Barry Williams]

A friend of mine acquired a vey serviceable analogue Johannus of two 61 note manuals and 30 notes pedals, with an orthodox stop list and headphones for £150.  It makes a very acceptable sound for home practice and, in some ways, is actually more effective as a rehearsal insturment than many digital organs.  (It cost more to have it moved than it did to buy it!)

I am sure that you can find a practice instrument within even a very modest budget.

Good luck with your repair.

Barry Williams

[diapason]

Many thanks, Barry,

If I can get an economic repair, then I'll go with that for now, mainly because of the difficulty in moving one organ out and another in.  I look forward to hearing from the engineer next week and will post the results here.

I'm now driving down to Truro with my friend, Lilita Ozola, who is giving a lunchtime concert in the Cathedral tomorrow.

Regards,

Nigel

[diapason]

Some good news.  the engineer, John Roberts, came yesterday and spent several hours on the organ.  He sorted the tuning, cleaned all of the key contacts, repaired the swell pedal (a wire had come unsoldered) and generally checked it over.  It's all working much better now.  There is still some crackling and hissing - John is trying to get hold of the service manual to help him to locate the source of this.

So,  I can now play the organ and it will last me until I can find something better.  Many thanks to John, a thououghly nice and helpful man who charged me very little for a great deal of work.

Nigel

[dragonser]

Hi,
I'm pleased that the Organ is working better now it has had a bit of TLC.
I think you  [ or the engineer ]  should be able to get hold of a service manual from WD Greenhill and Co
based in Rochford Essex.
01702 546195

regards Peter B