Topic: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs (Read 46859 times)

Jonathan Lane · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2011, 12:56:05 AM »

Quote from: barniclecompton on July 17, 2011, 12:50:39 AM

"I fear that even the mere sight of an organ in a church might have people reaching for the off button."
I agree with this quite abit, if you start off with that, they will turn off, and if you stick to that subject throughout the programme, and classical music, a vast majority of the viewers will most probably turn off. Try getting younger people into a church to hear an organ.....its pretty much a failure when you say the word church. Which is unfortunate, but true. Ill probably get shot down now on here, lol

It is strange, because my experience has been completely the opposite. Youngsters love the sound of the organ, because it can be loud and exciting!

I do think it is how you approach it though, and people like Keith Hearnshaw are superb at conversing with children and demonstrating the organ.

My philosophy has always been to get children onto the organ, even if they can only play 'twinkle twinkle', they love it. I play some things, including things like Happy Birthday on the pedals!

Jonathan

barniclecompton · « **Reply #21 on:** July 17, 2011, 01:08:49 AM »

Ive only succeeded in getting two people into a church to hear the organ, and neither were very impressed. Ive had far more success having people listen and visit cinema organs.

Jonathan Lane · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2011, 01:12:19 AM »

Quote from: barniclecompton on July 17, 2011, 01:08:49 AM

Ive only succeeded in getting two people into a church to hear the organ, and neither were very impressed. Ive had far more success having people listen and visit cinema organs.

Well, I have been doing this now for 30 years or so, but in that time, literally thousands of children and young people have had a go. At my last church, the schools came regularly, they got a demonstration, usually in the context of a mock wedding. Then, if there weren't two many of them, say no more than 30, I would give them all a quick go.

Jonathan

KB7DQH · « **Reply #23 on:** July 17, 2011, 02:24:56 AM »

Why programs such as this http://classical-scene.com/2011/07/10/pipe-organ-encounters/
are so very important...

Quote

Pipe Organ Encounters — in Concerts and Policy
by Christian Lane
Between July 17 and 22 Boston will host Pipe Organ Encounters. Sponsored by the local American Guild of Organists (AGO) contingent, the get-together aims to familiarize thirteen- to eighteen-year-old students of piano and organ with the pipe organ and to socialize them into the organ milieu. Further it provides concerts of interest to the public on important organs in the community. The event will also showcase some of the finest instruments and performers in the area. The official press release and the complete schedule of mostly free concerts is here.

The rest of the article is too large to quote in its entirety
(and too important to ignore)
so I encourage all to follow the link and give it a read...

but if my signature line could hold more characters it would read something like this...

Quote

I will say, however, that I cannot endorse the idea of a digital instrument. While technology has made impressive advances in recent decades, there is something about the movement of air through an organ — its intensely living, breathing quality — that is simply irreplaceable and incapable of digital reproduction. To negate the current instrument in favor of a digital organ would, for me, be equivalent to tearing down a stoic Gothic cathedral, awash in symbolism and artistry, only to replace it with a lecture hall. Both are large gathering spaces, and thus serve a common function. But the cathedral, like a pipe organ, represents a height of human ingenuity and craftsmanship. For centuries, both were a pinnacle of human material expression, and thus the closest humans ever came to expressing the divine.

Eric
KB7DQH

Jonathan Lane · « **Reply #24 on:** July 17, 2011, 08:58:29 AM »

Perhaps the perceived problem the organ has in the eyes of the general public can be summed up, in part, by some or all of these observations:

- Organists tend to be a little eccentric (I include myself in this!)

- Music played can often be academic and unconnected ( for instance, the opening recital at a well known public school a few years ago where, not only did the organ fail, but the organist played such an academic (and subjectively boring) programme that people left half way through.

- Churches are often locked these days, and when they are open, people get such an unwelcoming reception, they never go near them again, particularly true if the visitors are under thirty!

- When people do attend church, the liturgy can be so boring (musically) that they have no hope in having any interest at all. This also goes for slow and unrhythmic hymn playing,

Well, there's four to be getting on with, I think there are plenty more, and I'm sure they'll come to me during this morning's service. I also have solutions, but rather than condition responses, I would like to see others' comments first.

I think, if any documentary is to connect with people, it needs to be a combination of high quality music/performers/instruments, but also include accessible and exciting music!

Jonathan

organforumadmin · « **Reply #25 on:** July 17, 2011, 10:29:29 AM »

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on July 17, 2011, 12:56:05 AM

. . . Keith Hearnshaw are superb at conversing with children and demonstrating the organ.

Very good suggestion - possibly the ideal person for the documentary . . .

twanguitar · « **Reply #26 on:** July 17, 2011, 11:24:13 AM »

I feel anyone meeting with Mr Dawson would need to understand where he is coming from. Please do not misunderstand what I am about to say, as I emphasise I am not targeting him unkindly with these remarks. However there is a difference between a documentary which aims to promote the organ and one which will merely treat its audience to half an hour of nutcases talking about their hobby! I rather suspect the audience for the latter would be significantly larger than for the former. So which will it be, or might it be something in between? Currently I have no idea, but it would be worth asking. Otherwise those taking part in good faith might find they are hurtfully lampooned when it is finally aired - such things happen often in the media. It definitely happened some years ago when channel 4 did a documentary about the firm I work for, and I was glad I had declined to appear! The MD was livid and said "never again".

Barniclecompton is clearly coming from a cinema organ background (thanks for your reply to my recent post about The Barn by the way), and in my view s/he might be seeing the organ world as too segregated and Orwellian: cinema organs Good, straight organs Bad. In reality most people have no idea about or particular liking for either type. Cinema organ societies and trusts do a great job in keeping a few of the genre alive, but their audience and clientele is in reality far less than the totality of people who go to church and like the organ there, or to classical organ recitals which can pull huge audiences sometimes when there is a famous player. I don't think our objective of trying to maintain the profile of the organ is served by being too polarised into the straight, cinema or even digital camps. They are all organs and all can be used to promote our common purpose as far as this forum is concerned.

But I don't think we should rush headlong into publicity which might backfire, unless assurances are given in that regard.

TG

David Pinnegar · « **Reply #27 on:** July 17, 2011, 12:15:11 PM »

Hi!

Of course Twanguitar's caution is always appropriate - we have seen sensialism over and over again - but to answer your question, he came to see me in the middle of the week and he comes over as a very genuine man wanting to do something in good faith on the basis that in the organ he can see heritage which is being lost. One idea he has is to find, for instance, an instrument on ebay, or ideally one before it gets that far, and possibly film any attempts anyone might be able to make to get the vendors to change their minds and retain the instrument in situ. . . How many churches simply think they can save the space, creating a coffee area, and install an electronic?

During the course of his visit, I introduced him to what we in England would consider to be exotic repertoire, De Grigny, Couperin and the like and I demonstrated them appropriately registered on the concert organ at Hammerwood which is very capable and does justice to the repertoire. After this I introduced him, through speakers that make recordings not sound like recordings but as the real thing, to the instruments at Villefranche, St Maximin, Albi, St Eustache and Charterhouse. Upon going from an electronic to the experience of Villefranche, the superiority of the pipe organ was strikingly apparent.

There are many approaches possible and I have every faith in Mr Dawson's sincerity and abilities.

Best wishes

David P

David Pinnegar · « **Reply #28 on:** July 17, 2011, 09:29:04 PM »

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 16, 2011, 04:24:52 PM

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 16, 2011, 12:32:22 PM
As for Albi, it's so mucked about with... the 1970s rebuild was a disaster. It's not in any way the same as it was after Moucherel rebuilt it all those years ago, the specification doesn't make sense (certain stops plain in the wrong place),

Stops in the wrong place at Albi?

At some stage you have referred to the Cornet on the Recit as being inclomplete:
http://www.d1.dion.ne.jp/~organ/org/sca.html
gives a 5 rank cornet - would would be 8, 4, Nasard, 2 and Tierce
and on the Echo too as a Cornet separé
and on the Bombarde
and on the Great
and on the Positiv

A cornet on all manuals!

The instrument is a triumph. It is an instrument of Baroque power without equal . . .

Best wishes

David P

organforumadmin · « **Reply #29 on:** July 17, 2011, 10:52:10 PM »

[Numerous posts followed earlier mention of Christchurch Priory which clearly demonstrated that people are enthusiastic about pipe organs but which in their volume appropriately became a topic of their own http://www.organmatters.com/index.php/topic,772.0.html]

James Dawson · « **Reply #30 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:21:16 AM »

Dear Members,

Thanks you all so much for your suggestions and comments - all gratefully received.

My starting premise when researching this film was that it should aim to explore the organ from a variety of standpoints and that its fundamentally about showing how much pleasure and joy enthusiasts get from it. Music unlocks so much in us all. For me this is the key to making an interesting film. So thanks again for your thoughts, keep them coming.

Best wishes

James

KB7DQH · « **Reply #31 on:** July 18, 2011, 11:36:15 AM »

James-- Have you had time to dig around elsewhere in this forum? If not, here may be a good place to start

http://www.organmatters.com/index.php/topic,26.0.html

and
"this just in"...

http://www.rushentertainmentcompany.com/Aeolian_Skinner_Opus_1324/The_Story.html Likely this story alone would amount to a documentary all to itself

Eric
KB7DQH

David Pinnegar · « **Reply #32 on:** July 18, 2011, 04:39:00 PM »

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 17, 2011, 12:15:11 PM

One idea he has is to find, for instance, an instrument on ebay, or ideally one before it gets that far, and possibly film any attempts anyone might be able to make to get the vendors to change their minds and retain the instrument in situ. . . How many churches simply think they can save the space, creating a coffee area, and install an electronic?

diapason · « **Reply #33 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:09:21 PM »

There are some very fine instruments here, and these are only the tip of the iceberg - both on and off the IBO list.

Of the instruments mentioned above, I have some anecdotal knowledge of two: The Hill in the RMB at Chivenor was, according to a conversation I had some weeks ago with Michael Farley, damaged by long-term overheating of the building. Apparently, the authorities did not heed the advice in this regard from the organ builder, with catestrophic results for the organ. I was born in Barnstaple and attended Holy Trinity School, where I came to know the church slightly. I haven't lived there for almost 50 years, but still have family in the area who have told me that the church is now a High Temple of Happy-Clappy-dom. No doubt they want the space for the dance band.

Very sad.

Nigel

pcnd5584 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 18, 2011, 09:52:37 PM »

Here, as promised, is the copy of the list which I wrote for another board, regarding organs worth hearing (and recording), in the Greater London area.

Croydon Parish Church (H&H, IV/P); late Romantic, with a few more recent alterations.

Saint Giles, Cripplegate (Mander, III/P). The tutti is bright and clear on this English version of a neo-Classical organ. The organist is Anne Marsden Thomas.

If you desire a louder tutti (and perhaps one which is a little more reed-dominated), the following two instruments may be worth considering:

Saint Alban's, Holborn (Compton, III/P). This organ is widely regarded as the loudest church instrument in London. After many years of perfecting the art of constructing organs which were to be sited in chambers, Compton apparently found the transition to an open, west end site somewhat problematical. Apparently, at one point, thick wood baffles were installed around the pipework of the G.O., simply as a desperate measure to avoid listeners being plastered against the east wall of the church with their hair and general appearance looking as if they were testing a wind tunnel for British Aerospace.

Saint Luke's, Chelsea (Compton, III/P). This vast three clavier instrument is one of the most successful essays in the extension principle which is known to me. Compton's careful experimentation and thoughtful design (and inspired voicing) resulted in a large, colourful organ with a great personality. I doubt that this church would be expensive to hire, either. One caveat - it is a while since I last played this organ, so I do not know in what state it is currently maintained. The only malfunction which happened whilst I was playing for a service was that, on the luminous light-touch console, the Contra Posaune cyphered. I was able to persuade this stop to retire gracefully about three seconds prior to the start of Howells' Collegium Regale setting of the Nunc Dimittis. (For those who are unfamiliar with this work, a 32ft. reed at this point would be about as desirable as being trapped in a lift with a dead horse.)

Other organs within Greater London which you may wish to consider:

Saint Stephen, Walbrook (Hill/HN&B, III/P). This instrument is situated at the west end of this comparatively intimate church. However, the acoustic ambience is glorious. This building, designed by Sir Christopher Wren, may have been used as the prototye for Saint Paul's Cathedral - the one common architectural feature being a central dome (although the treatment is rather different to that at Saint Paul's). The organ is a fair sized three clavier instrument, basically Romantic in character. The full organ is quite powerful enough for its location - aided by the superb acoustics.

Saint Anne's, Limehouse (Gray & Davison, III/P) may be worth investigating, now that it has received a sympathetic restoration in 2006, at the skilled hands of William Drake. It still has the original console, but the tutti, which is largely dominated by G&D's superb Pedal and G.O. reeds (Grand Bombarde 16ft., with Posaune 8ft. and Clarion 4ft.), is breathtaking.

If you feel that you really must have a tutti containing H&H Trombe, these two instruments may be just what you are looking for:

The Temple Church (H&H, IV/P). Sir George Thalben-Ball was Organist and Choirmaster here for many years. This organ (installed after WWII, to replace the Rothwell instrument which became 'rebuilt' courtesy of the Luftwaffe) was originally constructed for the ballroom of Lord Glentanar's private residence, in Scotland. It is a large and colourful instrument - oh yes, is has Trombe at 8ft. and 4ft. on the G.O.

All Saints', Margaret Street (H&H, IV/P). This church is a fine example of the type of architecture favoured by the Tractarian movement. In this comparatively small building, Arthur Harrison installed a large four clavier instrument, replete with a 32ft. Double Open Wood on the Pedal Organ, a colourful, enclosed Choir Organ, a family of (enclosed) Trumpets at 16ft., 8ft. and 4ft. pitch on the G.O. and a thrilling Orchestral Trumpet 8ft. played from the Solo Organ. It was restored recently, again by Harrisons, who altered the composition of the mixture stops - including, I believe, re-instating the G.O. Harmonics.

For a brighter, clearer sound, you could try this instrument:

All Souls, Langham Place (Willis/H&H, IV/P). This large organ stands in the west gallery of this, the 'BBC' Church (so-called, because of its close proximity to Broadcasting House). It is generally used for the broadcast of the Daily Service, on British radio. The instrument is tonally very complete, spread over four claviers, with two 32ft. ranks on the Pedal Organ (one being a Contra Trombone), a Positive Organ, large G.O. and Swell and a colourful Solo Organ, culminating in an unenclosed Tuba and a Fanfare Trumpet. The only possible drawback is that the building possesses an acoustic ambience which makes the Royal Festival Hall sound warm and fluffy.

If you prefer something a little closer in sound to a 'Father' Willis organ, this may be worth considering:

Saint Augustine's, Kilburn (Willis/H&H, III/P). This moderately sized instrument has a fairly complete G.O. and Swell. However, the Pedal Organ (as was often the case with FHW) consists of only a handful of stops - although one is Willis' trademark Ophicleide - a veritable thunderbolt. The Choir Organ has seven registers, including a Clarinet. The Solo Organ has never been installed. The instrument is sited on the north side of this large edifice, designed by John Loughborough Pearson (who was also the architect for Truro Cathedral, in Cornwall).

One further organ:

Saint John's, Upper Norwood (Lewis, III/P). This fine instrument was restored sympathetically by Harrisons, a number of years ago. It is an excellent example of the work of T.C. Lewis and produces a magnificent sound in a reasonably favourable acoustic.

I hope that the above is of some use to you.

I have played, at some point, many of these instruments and, if you desire, I can probably provide a specification and further details of any or all of them.

Naturally, I am unable to state whether or not the relevant authorities for each building would grant permission to record - or, for that matter, whether the organs are of a sufficiently reliable standard to be used. Notwithstanding, I believe that most, if not all of these instruments are kept in good playing condition.

You are welcome to contact me by PM, if you should require further details.

David Pinnegar · « **Reply #35 on:** July 18, 2011, 10:45:30 PM »

Hi!

What a list - a most useful catalogue of landmarks.

The mention of delights in Trombes and unenclosed Tubas together with the problem of a dry acoustic makes Charterhouse at Godalming worth the mention as being a good example of this type of instrument in an acoustic well worthy of the instrument . . .

Best wishes

David P

pcnd5584 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 18, 2011, 11:14:32 PM »

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 16, 2011, 12:32:22 PM

... As for Albi, it's so mucked about with... the 1970s rebuild was a disaster. It's not in any way the same as it was after Moucherel rebuilt it all those years ago, the specification doesn't make sense (certain stops plain in the wrong place), some of the voicing is obviously neoclassical and the destruction of the Puget instrument (which was, I am told, of pilgrimage quality, right up there with St Ouen etc) also grates. At least St Maximin is largely as built, has never been romanticised, has never had quality romantic material destroyed, has never had obviously neoclassical-style voicing...

To be strictly accurate, there was no 1970s 'rebuild'. Schwenkedel of Strasbourg dismantled the old organ in 1971, with the intention of providing a new organ, which was to have been influenced by neo-Baroque thought. However, it soon became apparent that a considerable portion of the orginal instrument had survived; therefore, the plans changed substantially. On 3 May 1977, the contract for restoration by Bartoloméo Formenteli of Pedemonte, Italy was signed. The rebuild itself was not completed until 1981.

The scheme which was drawn up called for reconstruction of Moucherel's original instrument, but incorporating the changes and additions by the other builders who had worked on the organ, up until 1825. The original G.O. and Positif chests were restored, the others newly constructed in period style. A new console, also in period style, was provided, with original key compasses (although the Pédale was extended up to F', but with a French-style pedlboard) and new mechanical action.

In fairness, it has to be said that there were a few aspects of the scheme - or at least the re-interpretation of it - which came as a surprise to at least one player. In particular, the placement of the Voix Humaine (new, copied from Moucherel) on the Bombarde manual , where it had never been in the organ's entire history, (nor would be on any other classical French organ). Furthermore, this meant that it was not located on the same clavier as the foundation stops which were always drawn with it in classical practice (8ft. Bourdon and 4ft.' Flûte). I It is highly probable that this was due to the influence of Xavier Darasse*, who was a consultant for the restoration project. It was his custom to avoid using flue stops with solo reeds. When one American organist asked for his advice on registering a Dialogue de Voix Humaine on this instrument, "...he had me draw the lone Voix Humaine of the Bombarde and accompany it on the Grand Orgue 8ft. Montre alone - no coupler, of course". §

* Xavier Darasse was born in Toulouse in 1934 and grew up in a musical family; his mother was also an organist. At the age of sixteen, he was admitted to the Conservatoire National de Paris where he won numerous awards, including first prize for Harmony and Counterpoint, Organ, Improvisation, and later first prize for Composition in the class of Olivier Messiaen. There followed a brilliant career as a performer, with concerts in Europe, Russia, the United States, Canada, and Japan. In 1966 he established the organ class at the Conservatoire de Toulouse and became the principal organiser of musical events in his city.

In 1976 he lost the use of his right arm in a traffic accident; tragically, this put an end to his career as an organist. Darasse then turned to composition and teaching. In 1985 he was appointed professor of the Organ class in the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Lyon, and in 1991 he became Director of the Conservatoire National de Paris. He was a very gentle person and exercised his talents in various disciplines: composition, teaching, expertise in organ building. He died in 1992.

Xavier Darasse also participated for several years in the Académies d’été de Saint Maximin, where he gave master-classes and recitals. In the 1972 concert, titled The Symphonic Turning Point , he performed works by Mendelssohn, Liszt and Franck on the Isnard organ.

See his obituary in The Independent, Saturday 5 December, 1992:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-xavier-darasse-1561709.html

§ Timothy Tikker; organist, composer and improvisor. He is currently College Organist at Kalamazoo College, Kalamazoo, MI. He is also a DMA student with a major in Organ and Church Music, in the studio of Marilyn Mason at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor .

pcnd5584 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 18, 2011, 11:33:18 PM »

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 18, 2011, 10:45:30 PM

Hi!

What a list - a most useful catalogue of landmarks.

The mention of delights in Trombes and unenclosed Tubas together with the problem of a dry acoustic makes Charterhouse at Godalming worth the mention as being a good example of this type of instrument in an acoustic well worthy of the instrument . . .

Best wishes

David P

You are welcome. I hope that it helps your enquirer.

It would be good to hear (and play) the Charterhuose instrument, if this were possible. Do you have any contact details for anyone who might be willing to allow me to do so, please?

David Pinnegar · « **Reply #38 on:** July 19, 2011, 02:45:41 AM »

Quote from: pcnd5584 on July 18, 2011, 11:33:18 PM

You are welcome. I hope that it helps your enquirer.

It would be good to hear (and play) the Charterhuose instrument, if this were possible. Do you have any contact details for anyone who might be willing to allow me to do so, please?[/font]

Hi!

Yes - I can put anyone in touch and will PM. Here's the instrument doing what it was certainly not intended to be its usual repertoire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIl-LRafVO4

Thanks so much for filling in the detail on Albi - I have just been listening to a disc of Mary Prat-Molinier playing it and finding superbly exquisite tones on it especially with the Vox Humana and the Cromorne. There is a Bombarde-GO coupler so the Vox would be used with the Bourdon there and whilst unusually, I wonder if it was put on the Bombarde to add character to the reeds there?

Certainly at St Maximin Philippe Bardon, who has considerable panache in this repertoire, uses the Cromorne and Cornet together with Principal 4, and or Trompette 8 and or Clairon 4 from time to time. Anyone interested in registration would find his disc Apothéose de Lulli very interesting as it gives the registrations for each item on the disc.

I don't know about the effect at the console but at St Maximin, going to the Grand Jeu makes you jump in surprise on the bench. Quite an extraordinary instrument. Although the sound is masked by the automatic volume control of the camera, you can see me quite off-put in practice when changing from the bottom manual to the Grand Jeu on the second manual near the beginning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRuYTt1tuYM

Another instrument of delight is L'Escarene behind Nice, not far from Villefranche and built the following year in 1791 by the Grinda brothers. It's in a stronger temperament than Villefranche, probably near Meantone. The disc of René Saorgin playing it is delightful and it includes a rendition of the Marseillaise which apparently was the saving of St Maximin. When Napoleon's troops entered the Basilica to destroy the organ, the organist struck up their favourite chant upon the dozen(ish) ranks of Trumpets . . . and the troops decided that the instrument should not be destroyed. L'Escarene is only 1 manual compared to the 4 of St Maximin but even on this lesser instrument M. Saorgin's playing gives a strong hint of what the effect must have been on the troops at St Maximin.

Another British instrument of note is that of Wimborne Minster where the en chamade trumpets are an orchestral variety and very shockingly so, put to excellent use on the CD http://organanoraks.com/pcndcd1.html which I bought some while ago, enjoyed and thoroughly recommend. There's a nice photo of the trumpets on the disc on the webpage.

Best wishes

David P

Postscript: The René Saorgin performance on the L'Escarene disc is brought to a close by a piece called "Grand Choeur" by Charles-Alexandre Fessy (1804-1856) and is a most charming rendition which one would think was on a Wurlitzer - but in Meantone tuning and a delightful lightness in the voicing. This church instrument is worth researching by anyone seeking a direction in Entertainment Organs . . .

Jonathan Lane · « **Reply #39 on:** July 19, 2011, 08:09:25 AM »

Quote from: barniclecompton on July 19, 2011, 03:23:17 AM

Slightly off topic here, @ David Pinnegar- you keep refering to "entertainment organs", surely ANY organ can be an entertainment organ? If you hold a concert on it, that is a form of entertainment.

Depends who is playing and what is being played!

Jonathan

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Author Topic: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs (Read 46859 times)

barniclecompton

twanguitar