The most inspirational instrument ....

[barniclecompton]

n/a

[Jonathan Lane]

Has to be Cavaille-Coll organ at St Ouen, Rouen for me.

Jonathan

[organforumadmin]

Hi!

There's clearly a lot of knowledge here but it really all boils down to the meaning of the word
"inspirational"

Perhaps inspirational might not mean the most popular nor the most heard .  . .


Reading through this thread as an outsider might I think that people are currently coloured in this discussion by reason of a degree of duplication in another thread and are therefore asking for "strict proof" in an area where all would probably normally be quite relaxed. I think that people are saying here "Heard that. Been there, Got the T shirt, case not proven over there".

We appear to have lost sight of

   
• Mr Midmer Losh at Atlantic City, quite the most versatile and awe inspiring instrument capable of all areas of repertoire
• The Barton organ in Chicago Hockey stadium played by Jack Moelmann legendarily when he quelled a riot among fans and INSPIRED them to stop
• The instrument at St Maximin played by Monsieur Forcade who INSPIRED Napolean's troops not to destroy it with its dozen or so ranks of trumpets playing the Marseillaise
• First Presbyterian Church in LA where David Goode was organist for a time - the third largest organ in the world and the largest in a church, effectively 7 organs in 1 (or is it 5?)
• Westminster Abbey organ heard by 2 billion viewers of the Royal Wedding recently
• St Pauls Cathedral organ known to all alive when Charles married Diana
• The Crystal Cathedral organ in the USA inspiring many in the church there
• Alexandra Palace organ accompanying so many events there until the fire
• The Compton at Broadcasting House of the BBC which must have been heard by millions http://cdmnet.org/Julian/schemes/misc/brit/bbc.htm
• The Royal Albert Hall organ used even by pop groups
• The Royal Festival Hall organ
• Organs inspiring literature http://cdmnet.org/Julian/literat/litidx.htm
• Organs including 64ft stops http://cdmnet.org/Julian/lists/64.htm
• Organs large enough to contain discordant mixtures http://cdmnet.org/Julian/lists/mut.htm and http://cdmnet.org/Julian/lists/nones.htm - I note the BBC Compton features there
• West Point Chapel USA http://cdmnet.org/Julian/lists/subq.htm
• The 1936 monstrous Nazi Walcker Kongreßhalle Nürnburg http://www.gewalcker.de/gewalcker.de/PDF_public/articlel_walcker.pdf with a console not unreminscent of the Alderney Odeon http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alderney_WW2_occupation_bunker_Odeon.jpg
• The Sauer at Breslau (Warsaw) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIBSMgClW7A

If any of the Forum Team has time, I suggest that this thread be renamed "The Blackpool Wurlitzer" for the value of the information it contains and inserted into the Cinema Organs category, and that a new thread be started on the subject of The Most Inspirational Instrument, perhaps with a list such as the one above as a starting point.


The degeneration of this forum into ping pong blinkered arguments does no good for our reputation as a good authority on Organ Matters. I remarked to one member the other day who had made vicious outbursts against numerous people was that his outlook was not kind. The organ is an instrument of harmony and David Pinnegar is not the only person to have observed this: http://cdmnet.org/Julian/esoteric/philos.htm and many of us have the greatest of respect for the late Stephen Bicknell who observed:

"The organ is a continual reminder to us that learning and 'wrought objects' are God-given mysteries and part of the human struggle for Heaven on Earth."

and similarly Albert Schweitzer:

The strugle for the good organ is part of the struggle for truth.

Perhaps the most inspirational instruments are of the Thirteen Solar Planes
http://cdmnet.org/Julian/esoteric/solar.htm
and the most inspirational of all will be that instrument that so encompasses perfect harmony that all who hear it fall under its spell of peace.


Best wishes


Forum Admin

[organforumadmin]

To this list one might also add the organ of Crystal Palace in Sydenham London lost in the great fire of the 1930s - did the fire start in the organ - and which accompanied performances of thousands of singers. Indeed it might have been that organ and the capacity of that building which Havergal Brian might have had in mind to inspire the Gothic Symphony. Inspiration indeed.

[dsbutterworth]

For me, the Marcussen organ in St Mary's Nottingham is utterly insipirational. Magnificent tutti and fantastic variety of colours from only 25 registers.

[Barrie Davis]

Im glad they got rid of the Nottingham organ as one of the blowers is now winding my instrument!!!! I have heard that the new organ does a very good job and hope to hear it later this year.

If Paul Carr reads the comment about the Abbey organ perhaps he would care to comment as he gave a recital on it this year. You are quite correct about the Celestial or Echo organ still being there, I cant see any point in it being connected.

Best wishes

Barrie

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

The 4m Binns in Central Congregational Church, Nottingham isn't yet at threat.  The building hasn't been sold, and the main hall, AFAIK, is used for various activities - and certainly the organ is playable and used at times.  (I have a good friend who works for the Congregational Federation and is based in that building - the organ is close enough to his office for him to hear when it's played!

I've yet to arrange to see that one, - it's partner in the Albert Hall (a former Methodist Central Hall, incidentally) is a nice instrument (it was one of the venues on an Organists' Assoc trip in 2009).  In deference to it's use now as a concert hall, I played the Lemare Andantino in Db - great fun!

Every Blessing

Tony
P.S.  I've asked my friend to let me know of developments at Castlegate.

[twanguitar]

Can we have a little respect here for David Butterworth please? I'll explain why in a moment to those who need to know. But first of all I should like to know exactly whom Voix Cynique has spoken to about the Nottingham Marcussen, especially as he says the number was "a lot".  If not names, which I accept could be awkward, then some evidence that he has spoken to any at all, please.  Evidence that their opinions are valid is also eagerly awaited.

Its history goes back about twenty years before he was born, coinciding as it did with the removal of the Walker at about that time.  I learnt to play the organ on that latter instrument, and regardless of its pros and cons, it was well into terminal decline.  And let's get our basic facts right while we are about it.  The Walker was not "Edwardian" because it was not installed until 1916.  Regrettably, organs sometimes do reach a point where replacement is the only practical option, and this was one of the examples.  Voix Cynique clearly knows nothing about this, otherwise he would realise it was not "vandalism" at all.  I could refer him to one of several books detailing the history of the organs at that church, but wonder whether it would be worth my while.  I have played both the Walker and the Marcussen.  I know he will not have as he apparently does not play according to one of his previous posts, but perhaps we might at least hope he has heard the latter.  So has he?  He most certainly could not have heard the former.

And now to the issue of respect.  Mr Butterworth is a very well known Nottingham musician of impeccable ability and qualifications.  I am delighted that he has seen fit to join this forum, and he should be welcomed by all of us.  Please will the moderators have a look at Voix Cynique's post and decide whether to exercise their powers.  Otherwise we will be in danger of losing yet another badly-needed member almost before he gets into his stride.

And anyone going to St Mary's to hear the Marcussen will not be disappointed if David Butterworth happens to be playing it.

TG

[Barry Williams]

"I ought to clarify, I've simply spoken to a few organists - some of whose identities I don't know, having simply met them at organ recitals - and the Nottingham Marcussen has cropped up in conversation. I have not personally heard it, but those I have spoken to who have all condemned it. Some had also known the Walker and said it was a superb instrument.

No organ is unrestorable or unrebuildable given enough money. OK, I got the Edwardian bit slightly wrong, but a large Walker of that era would have been very special tonally, given my experience of hearing the Wimbledon instrument and similarly favourable reports of the Northampton one. It would have been perfectly possible to rebuild the old Walker on electric or electro-pneumatic action, which could have been more reliable and responsive than the old TP, but it was scrapped for purely ideological reasons. Even if the windchests and so on had been beyond repair, the pipework should have been retained in its entirety. However, Ralph Downes (who, famously, held forth no end on organs despite having very defective hearing) got involved and so a fine Romantic organ was wantonly destroyed."

Voix Cynique,

I have commented before about your remarks made from second-hand snippets obtained from organists.  Posts of this type bring the Board into disrepute.  David Butterworth is a very fine muscian and knows a very great deal about organs and organbuilding.

Your comments are entirely inappropriate.  (Making comments such as 'would have been' merely parades your lack of first-hand knowledge.) when you never heard the organ is  I suggest that you delete them yourself and take more care about what you write in the future.

Barry Williams

[Barrie Davis]

Voix Cynique,

I have commented before about your remarks made from second-hand snippets obtained from organists.  Posts of this type bring the Board into disrepute.  David Butterworth is a very fine musician and knows a great deal about organs and organbuilding.

Your comments are entirely inappropriate.  (Making comments such as 'would have been' merely parades your lack of first-hand knowledge.) when you never heard the organ is  I suggest that you delete them yourself and take more care about what you write in the future.

Barry Williams

I agree wholeheartedly with the above post by Barry Williams, if this continues several valued members of this Forum will simply leave, much to the detriment of the Forum.

Your comments must be accurate and not based on your lacking knowledge.

I would advise you to think about the accuracy of any posts you may make in the future.

Barrie Davis


[Forum Admin: I have suggested also to VC that he tries to take up lessons so that he can comment from a perspective that only a player can have - and made the comment that were he to spend the time practicing that he otherwise spends on internet forums, within three years he'd be a good organist. Such comments are intended to be helpful guidance from a friendly perspective. I have added to these Moderators' comments in lieu of creating another post . . .]

[Barry Williams]

It is impossible to emphasise sufficiently the harm that VC's posts inappropriate posts are doing to this Forum.  Apart from the exasperation of the Moderators, there is the general reputation of the Board at stake now.  I am at a loss to know what to suggest.

Barrie Davis is absolutely correct.  The situation is now at breaking point.

Barry Williams

[pcnd5584]

.... However, Ralph Downes (who, famously, held forth no end on organs despite having very defective hearing) got involved and so a fine Romantic organ was wantonly destroyed.

This has been mentioned in one or two other sources, and I wonder how accurate it is.

I was fortunate enough to meet Downes, at the time I was writing my degree thesis. The organ of Gloucester Cathedral featured in one chapter and I desired further information that other sources had not supply fully. Ralph Downes was kind enough to agree to meet me at the RFH, after one of the 'Wednesdays at 5.55' recitals - now sadly missed from the London organ scene.

We sat in one of the open areas of the hall, with many people milling around - and with a not inconsiderable background noise. Downes appeared to have no difficulty whatsoever in hearing me. Neither did it seem that he favoured one ear or the other, I was allowed to sit where I chose. We had a fairly long, and utterly fascinating conversation. With regard to Gloucester and my thesis, he was most illuminating and helpful.

[Jonathan Lane]

I have to lend my support to Barry and Barrie in this matter.  I am concerned that a place for useful and valuable discussion ceases to be so when those with experience and knowledge leave.  I certainly do not wish this to be the case.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Lane]

.... However, Ralph Downes (who, famously, held forth no end on organs despite having very defective hearing) got involved and so a fine Romantic organ was wantonly destroyed.

We had a fairly long, and utterly fascinating conversation. With regard to Gloucester and my thesis, he was most illuminating and helpful.

I would be interested to read the paper, as Gloucester is one of my favourite organs, both to listen to and play.  Although to be fair, I haven't played it since the restoration/augmentation.

Jonathan

[pcnd5584]

For me, the Marcussen organ in St Mary's Nottingham is utterly insipirational. Magnificent tutti and fantastic variety of colours from only 25 registers.

Dear David,

Firstly, may I add my welcome to those who have already done so. I hope that you will gain much enjoyment from this board.

I wonder if I may also ask for further information regarding the instrument which you mention. For example, is the church resonant - and, if so, roughly to what degree?

In addition, are you able to tell me what it is like as an accompanimental instrument, please?

I note, from the website of the church choir, that a varied repertoire is performed here - although I was interested to see the repetition of Gray, in F minor within three weeks. This is a difficult setting, certainly as far as the maintenance of the pitch is concerned. I assume from this that the choir is highly competent. Certainly, the clip of Stanford's Beati quorum via is beautifully sung, with excellent control.

Whilst I note that John Keys is the Director of Music, I am afraid I have no information as to whether you have a connection with this church.

If you are able to answer any of these questions, I would be grateful - thank you.