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Perhaps "God" doesn't "exist" - because "God" may be nothing other than an "idea" - but that "idea" and its consequences, especially when summed up in Jesus' two commandments, are life changing. In his book "Music of the Spheres" (which includes sections on mathematics in music especially by Bach and by Mozart), Guy Murchie examines Pythagorean mathematics in terms of quantum physics and gives an intriguing example of "the idea" . . .Quote In about every sense . . .the world is profoundly abstract. And not only the world but also the world's beings are made substantially of abstraction. A being is something like an idea or a song or an organised system. Where was the telephone in A.D.1800? Where were you and I? None of us had yet been born. All the elements of our future compositions were in the world but not organised into integral systems. And just as the right combination of thoughts and actions produced the telephone, so did the right combination of motivations and germ cells produce you and me. Thus an organism of life is basically much the same as an organism of systematic ideas - an abstraction, a new combination, a larger reality . . .So it might be argued that because we can see the idea of what is good, what makes up matter and makes good things happen, and call it God, then in that same abstraction that leads from the idea of us in the arrangement of atoms which exist already to our existence, our reality, that abstraction of the idea of God leads to the "reality" of "God" in "His" existence. Because the idea is so profound, and life changing, the concept of "God" in "reality" as just an "idea" does not in any way diminish the concept of "God". This idea is supported in the concept of the Angel Gabriel's message to the Virgin Mary and the time when Jesus said (Luke 21) "And hee answered and said vnto them, My mother and my brethren are these which heare the word of God, and doe it."Another way of looking at good and evil is possibly through the concept of entropy. In the creation of an ordered system of atoms to create life, entropy decreases, whereas when we die and our atoms go back into the earth, disorder takes over and is obvious for all to see, entropy increases. We become without the order that created us. . .The Christian (or other believer) with a true sense or understanding of God (and bearing in mind the Delai Lama is not by definition "Christian" and that the protests and problems about which they resonate are now a global problem in a global perspective, I'm being deliberately non-denominational in suggesting an understanding of God) will have a purpose in mind that helps him or her to create a particular vision of order in their lives as they interlock with others' lives and the harmony created thereby, a decrease of entropy, whilst those without an understanding of "the idea" - the a-theist (of the sort Rifkind might have been referring to) - working against "the idea", however well meaning, without a view of the wider picture and the light which is "the idea" will wander around, some more directionless than others, in the darkness, bumping into things to a greater or lesser extent, and leading to the increase of disorder, the increase of entropy, the death of the system.I referred elsewhere in these threads to seeing perhaps if there was a way in which one might look at the concept of God not in the usual terms and understanding of the word . . . and the thoughts above are perhaps an exploration . . . .Such thoughts might seem abtruse, perverse or even a luxury of self indugence in contemplation, but somehow if the message of the protesters is to get through to the people whom they wish to influence, those who are to be influenced can only understand if the consequences of their actions in causing an increase in entropy and disharmony in their surroundings can be explained in a manner that is as clear as daylight and a clearer thought process becomes obvious. It's for this reason that an exploration into explanation of "reality" and "the idea" of the creation of order out of disorder (ignoring the specifics, that's the gist of the meaning of Genesis isn't it?) is worthy of refinement, if possible at all.When above I referred to the concept of a "hole" in "nothing" being "something", again a problem posed by Guy Murchie, an intellectual atheist like Dawkins misses just that concept in ignoring the "idea" of the source of decreasing entropy. That "source" is beyond human description, which is why no one can, exactly, as it cannot be seen, but is all powerful, everywhere and all knowing . . . as to create order out of disorder it has to be . . . doesn't it?Best wishesDavid P(Note to self or anyone else interested in doing so . . . possibly on another thread as a continuation to this explore Entropic processes paralleled to "The Idea". We note that when "The Idea" takes hold there is a localised decrease in entropy which allows creation to take place and this is we recognise as unusual as entropy always increases: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/therm/entrop.html - http://www.nous.org.uk/entropy.html - If we recognise the creation process and this decrease of entropy and call it "God" new physics http://www.entropylaw.com/ suggests that the creation of order out of disorder is the naturally expected physics - so "God" is an expected consequence (!!!). The difference between those working "with God" or "against God" is the difference between people working with the natural laws of the environment around them, or those against. It's easier for individuals and the system to work within the physical laws than against them. In the entropic process in isolated systems entropy is conserved, so creation has to be matched by destruction. This is expressed in the Ying Yang contrasts, the recognition of Apollo as the All Powerful - the Creator the Destroyer, Mithras and the Mystery Cult, Death and Rebirth, being Born Again, Death and Resurrection, Christ upturning the tables of the money changers, the nature of Yahweh in the Old Testament - destroying, punishing those who did not follow him (this is a natural consequence of people working against the physics of their environment, a punishment which they bring upon themselves, but which is caused by the rules of their environment) . . . and no doubt other examples.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_%28order_and_disorder%29http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_%28information_theory%29So calling oneself an atheist but understanding the consequences of the laws of the universe is the same as being a theist. What the teachings of "The Idea" do is to translate those consequences into relational terms for people. This is not to deny that people who have not come across those teachings can have a natural understanding of the laws of the universe to a random and varying degree . . . but the people of whom the Protesters protest . . .Relevance to organ - the instrument is an expression of order, order in sound, order in mind, and Bach and other composers especially with 18th century masonic connexions were writing music to express the Divine Order, a constant quest for the Pythagorean Music of the Spheres)
In about every sense . . .the world is profoundly abstract. And not only the world but also the world's beings are made substantially of abstraction. A being is something like an idea or a song or an organised system. Where was the telephone in A.D.1800? Where were you and I? None of us had yet been born. All the elements of our future compositions were in the world but not organised into integral systems. And just as the right combination of thoughts and actions produced the telephone, so did the right combination of motivations and germ cells produce you and me. Thus an organism of life is basically much the same as an organism of systematic ideas - an abstraction, a new combination, a larger reality . . .
In Darwinistic Atheism this starts to be obvious, for the positive multiplies positively, multiplication being an additive process repeatedly. This leads to success but negative patterns don't add and therefore cannot multiply and therefore, die out. They might not be seen to die out immediately, but patient watching reveals them to do so in the longer term.Sometimes one is tempted to say bad things. It becomes obvious from the above that bad things don't need to be said, because bad things will die out as long as good things multiply. So it's necessary to say and do good things.The corrolary is the saying that "It only requires a good man to do nothing for evil to multiply".The injunction about doing nothing is not an encouragement to fight evil, for fighting is evil, it causes argument and unhappiness. But by doing positive things, by saying positive things, good things will simply outnumber the bad and a state of heaven endures.
Positive people always add collectively but negative people only destroy themselves in negativity, as numbers below zero don't exist.