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2 Manual plus Pedal Pipe Organ Wanted.

Started by Janner, August 15, 2011, 05:24:15 PM

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Janner

Redundant pipe organ wanted for an Anglican church:

Two manual plus pedal with around 12 or 13 speaking stops. Tracker / mechanical throughout if possible.

Approximate maximum overall dimensions: W 9' x D 8' x H 15' (excluding the normal 2' x 2' blower box, which could be accommodated alongside). Much depends on the appearance, shape and design.

Electric blower, but a working hand pump would also be an advantage.

The instrument will have to stand against a wall but will be on view from the front and both sides.

Finding a redundant pipe organ is easy, there are many of them, (too many), and some would appear to be very good instruments. But finding the right one to fit a particular situation is proving to be rather more difficult. The obvious sources, IBO Redundant List etc., are being monitored and enquiries have been made in several places.

If anyone knows of a redundant instrument which might fit the bill and is not currently listed on the IBO Redundant Organs website, or with the Methodist Church Organs Advisor, I would be grateful if they could send me a PM.

Many thanks,

J.

David Pinnegar

Hi!

I don't know who he is or what he does (perhaps someone might fill me in) but Graham Jones sends out emails documenting redundant organs very very helpfully.

Graham Jones - Tel. 0h One Seven Zero For Ate Severn UpsidedownNine Won Tree Four
Email: g.mjones residing with btinternet.com

Having a chat with him might be helpful. He might have something just in mind . . .

However, it's important to be conscious of records of specifications not reflecting what's on the ground. I was asked to go to look at an instrument at Tunbridge Wells which looked perfectly ordinary on paper but which when I got there I thought of so highly that I put it into the Inspirational Instruments section on this site and an organ builder from Malta flew over to see it within four days to secure its purchase. . . .

Best wishes

David P

Janner

Thank you David.

Graham Jones is the Methodist Church Organs Advisor to whom I was referring in my original post. My understanding is that he covers the whole of England in that capacity, or at least he has details of organs all over the country. True, I have also seen references to other Methodist Organ Advisors; perhaps they operate on a more local or regional basis.

I am on Graham's mailing list and have found him to be very approachable and helpful. He regularly sends me information and updates.

Quote from: David Pinnegar on August 16, 2011, 11:06:45 AM

................
However, it's important to be conscious of records of specifications not reflecting what's on the ground...........

David P

Yes, we have found that to be the case sometimes. We have made a point of going to look at any instrument, within reason, which appears to come near to the requirements. Several hundred miles have been covered so far, and it has been an interesting experience.

Thank you for your interest.

J.

grinder12

We have an historic Renn and Boston organ dating from 1840 or earlier which has to be removed. It needs complete renovation.
It has two manuals plus pedals.
It is 9ft wide. Height to top of case is about 15ft but actual organ is less.
The PRESENT depth is about 12 ft but this could be reduced considerably on rebuilding, as it is not on its original "footprint'.
The Great has 11 stops and the Swell 6. The pedals are 16ft bourdon. Couplers Swell to Great and Great to Pedals.

David Pinnegar

Hi!

Is there any way in which you might be able to get anyone to do a simple video of the instrument such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUFWWOgSbbU

It would be great to see a stoplist - and or a link to the instrument on NPOR http://www.npor.org.uk/ - although as I discovered at Tunbridge Wells, the listing there is not always to be relied upon . . .

Many thanks for bringing this instrument to attention. What is the timescale?

Best wishes

David P

grinder12

This organ has been listed on the IBO site for some time and has attracted much interest but no takers. It is still in regular use but needs full restoration.  It will have to be removed within the next two or three months.

Expert opinion suggests it was built about 1830 or shortly afterwards, as it has a choir bass, a feature Renn introduced in 1829. We have yet to discover its original location but it is older than the church it stands in.
One expert said of this organ: It has a short compass Tenor C Swell organ of very gentle voicing. The Great organ has a splendid ringing tone.

Swell Organ (Tenor C)                      Great Organ
Double Diapason  16                     Open Diapason        8
Open Diapason     8                          Dulciana               8
Salicional        8*                              Stop Bass            8
Trumpet           8                              Claribel             8
Principal         4                                 Principal            4
Voix Celeste      8*                            Flute                4*
                                                        Gamba Bass           8*
                                                        Gamba                8*
                                                        Twelfth              2 2/3
                                                        Fifteenth            2
                                                        Sesquialtera        17th+

Pedal Organ
Bourdon          16

Couplers
Swell to Great
Great to Pedal

Compass
Manuals CC – F 54 notes, Pedals CCC – E 29 notes.

"Kick Stick" Swell operation.

*Non original pipework.     +The nineteenth and twenty second ranks have been removed.

Janner

Quote from: grinder12 on September 04, 2011, 01:00:58 PM
We have an historic Renn and Boston organ dating from 1840 ...............

Thanks for your post. I have sent a PM.

J.

David Pinnegar

Hi!

It would be interesting to know what part of the country it's in.

Presumably it's been "slidered" but this sort of instrument can be extremely musicologically valuable if there are hints among the pipework of any evidence of what unequal temperament might have been in use.

Please keep us updated on interest - if not much response emerges within a week I'm sure that Forum Admin might be persuaded to send an email out to all members as there are a lot of members who look at emails but very infrequently at the forum.

The specification of this instrument is interesting and useful. The Sesqualtera is basically the Tierce which forms the Sesquialtra with the Nasard and can also, with the 2ft form a Cornet Separé. This means that the instrument has a good trumpet, and with the Cornet and the harmonics to Tierce one has the spirit of a synthesised Oboe and Clarinet.

This is an instrument for which there should be significant demand . . .

What is the sort of size of building that it's currently voiced for and the sort of size of singing congregation that it will support?

Best wishes

David P

grinder12

Thanks very much for your technical comments. My non-technical answer to your question is that the church seats 150 and the Great organ is more than loud enough for a full house. The Swell is rather quieter.
We are talking about the organ at Christ Church, Biddulph Moor, in North Staffordshire. Re your suggestion that the instrument could be musicologically valuable, our diocesan adviser commented that it would be ideal for playing Handelian concerti.
I think that fully restored it would be a splendid example of its period (c 1830-40). We have so far been unable to discover its original location.
I hope very much that someone will take it on complete for restoration, but a decision as to its future will have to be made very soon.

David Pinnegar

Quote from: grinder12 on September 05, 2011, 06:47:31 PM
Thanks very much for your technical comments. My non-technical answer to your question is that the church seats 150 and the Great organ is more than loud enough for a full house. The Swell is rather quieter.
We are talking about the organ at Christ Church, Biddulph Moor, in North Staffordshire. Re your suggestion that the instrument could be musicologically valuable, our diocesan adviser commented that it would be ideal for playing Handelian concerti.
I think that fully restored it would be a splendid example of its period (c 1830-40). We have so far been unable to discover its original location.
I hope very much that someone will take it on complete for restoration, but a decision as to its future will have to be made very soon.

Hi!

I wonder if you might be able to send some photos - it may or may not be possible to post them directly on the forum on account of server permissions technicalities but I'll certainly ensure that they're displayed on a listing somewhere. If member Janner is uncertain about this instrument it would seem appropropriate to post this under the Organs in Danger or the other relevant section.

In view of the historic pipework in the instrument, depending on the sympatheticality of voicing, the instrument would be great for a music school to tune to some form of unequal temperament. The sound is likely to be quite sweet and a temperament giving useful numbers of perfect or good thirds will bring out the real joy of the Tierce.

(This is the importance of the experiments that Barry Williams was going to do at East Grinstead in terms of testing what repertoire was really precluded by the application of a historic temperament. From my own experience of an 1856 Sprague chamber organ, tuning to Meantone gives the sweetest of tonality and makes it a joy to play - in all keys other than Ab, Db, B and F# but other temperaments are not so severe and Young has a lot of historical precedent whilst 6th Comma meantone, a Silbermann temperament, has recently come to my attention as well as an 8th Comma tuning.)

Is it tracker? Or a modernised action?

Best wishes

David P

grinder12

Hi
Thanks very much for your further comments. The organ is certainly in danger because time is now pressing.
The nineteenth and twenty-second ranks of the sesquialtera have been removed but otherwise the general opinion seems to be that more than enough of the original remains to warrant a proper restoration to or near to the original form. It is still tracker action.
As I'm new to this forum I still haven't worked out how to attach photographs other than that only lo res images seem to be allowed. Could someone please advise me.

Thanks
Grinder12