Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Topics - Janner

Pages: [1] 2
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Fire at All Saints, Fleet, Hampshire.
« on: June 25, 2015, 07:54:56 AM »
Miscellaneous seems to be a rather understated heading for this but I can't find another more appropriate one.

The link is to a news item on the devastation caused by a fire at All Saints Church, Fleet: (It is a news page so the link may have only a relatively limited life.)

From the photographs, destruction of everything combustible would appear to be more or less complete. NPOR indicates a substantial two manual organ:

According to the report, a 17 year old has been arrested and bailed. Another sad reflection on our times it would seem.

Organ Builders / Bryceson
« on: May 23, 2015, 09:21:54 AM »
Having long had an interest in an organ by Brycesons, it seems to me that their instruments don’t often get mentioned in general discussion, although NPOR lists some 272 organs scattered widely from Shetland to Penzance where they either built the instrument or had some involvement.

According to a thesis here,, Henry Bryceson Junior played a part in the development of electric actions, but there seems to be little comment on the musical qualities of their instruments.

Does anyone have any knowledge, subjective comment, opinion or other snippets of interest regarding the firm’s work which they can share please?

New Pipe Organs / Buckfast Abbey - Ruffatti
« on: May 14, 2015, 07:55:13 AM »
The following links lead to details of the new organ(s) proposed for Buckfast Abbey in South Devon. The old organ was taken out of commission about three years ago and an electronic organ has been in use since. Scrolling down a little on this one shows two views of an artist's impression of the organ in the west gallery, situated to avoid blocking the west windows.


Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Pipe Organ 2 manuals and pedals
« on: November 01, 2014, 07:18:52 AM »
Pipe Organ 2 manuals and pedals good condition available for cost of removal. Location given as Kettering.

For sale on eBay. Item No. 131329512982. Currently 99p. and no bids.

Ending 02 Nov, 2014 23:00:48 GMT.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Practice Organ / Piano
« on: March 11, 2014, 07:56:24 AM »
First seen posted on another forum, a two manual + pedals piano, listed as a 'practice organ.' The eBay listing expires at 17:19 today, 11th March.

The item number is 121290871951.

One of the three photos is of the pedalboard.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / NPOR
« on: December 08, 2013, 07:23:22 AM »
I notice the NPOR has been given a new look and some updates are filtering through - excellent.

Many thanks to the hard working individuals who are taking the trouble to maintain this valuable resource.

Picked up from 'another forum,' some interesting news regarding the above:

"The Government has announced changes to the scope and operation of the Listed Places of Worship grant scheme, which will take effect from 1 October 2013. These changes will enable more listed places of worship to claim for grants through the scheme.

From 1 October 2013, works to pipe organs, turret clocks, bells and bell ropes will be eligible for claims under the scheme. Professional services directly related to eligible building work such as architect fees will also become eligible."

This would appear to be a significant extension to the scope of the scheme and may be of interest to those with church organ projects in mind, (or indeed other projects on bells and clocks). (Note it says "Pipe organs," something to think about for those contemplating the alternative.)

Website here:

Organs in danger / Hawkins 1953 1M + P
« on: January 03, 2013, 02:14:23 PM »
The Chapel which houses this organ is for sale:

Looks quite nice for anyone wanting a small instrument.

Compass 54 / 30

P 16

M 8, 8, 8, 4, 8

Organs in danger / 1912 Wordsworth & Co 2M + P, in Cleveland.
« on: September 25, 2012, 07:51:56 PM »
A 1912 Wordsworth & Co. 2M + P in Cleveland needing a new home as soon as possible:

It's of pleasing appearance; the sort of instrument which, provided the space were available, would look right almost anywhere.

Apparently the church has been closed for two or three years and a buyer has now been found. Completion is expected in 8 - 10 weeks.

Further details and contact information available by PM.

Organs in danger / Keates three manual at Burley, Yorkshire,
« on: August 24, 2012, 07:15:06 AM »
News just in that this fairly substantial three manual at Burley, Yorkshire, by Albert Keates, is in need of a new home:

The following is quoted from the supplied information:

"This substantial organ was built by Albert Keates of Sheffield and was overhauled by J E Shippen of Leeds in 1988.
It has been regularly tuned and maintained and appears to be in fairly good condition. There is virtually no running on any of the manuals.
The church has closed and the building will shortly be sold."

Not yet listed on the IBO Redundant list, but information is available if requested.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / 2M + P on eBay
« on: May 24, 2012, 07:50:25 AM »
The following organ is on eBay. Ends 31st. May at 19:28.

NPOR survey G01312, IBO Redundant Organs list no. 345.

Dimensions are not obvious on the eBay listing, but appear right at the bottom: W 10ft. x D 7ft. X H 14ft. approx.

Organ building and maintenance / Electronics In Pipe Organs
« on: May 19, 2012, 08:16:21 AM »
I have started a new topic with this quote from another thread because this section seemed more appropriate for my questions.

I'm just over 60 years of age, and in that time, I have seen organ-actions change dramatically; first away from the electro-mechanical systems using telephone-exchange technology, to the early electronic, transistorised systems and now to the computerised systems of to-day. In effect, not only has the technology changed every 20 years or so, it means that there is now the same sort of planned obsolence we see in motor-vehicles, where spares become increasingly scarce as time marches on. Although I have no reason for suggesting this, I also wonder how reliable the hall sensors of some modern key-actions will be, knowing only too well that a motor-vehicle ABS and engine-speed sensors have a distinctly limited life.

Of course, the same arguments apply exactly to electronic instruments; many of the earlier ones now almost irrepairable; especially where they use dedicated IC's.

Compare this, if you will, to certain tracker instruments, which clatter and clank away throughout Europe, making every piece of music sound like a stage presentation of "River Dance." At the very least, they still work, albeit with a few problems and the occasional bit of maintenance.

Even the worst pneumatic actions usually lasted 30+ years, and the best of them three times longer, but with one massively important difference. With both mechanical and pneumatic actions, even a skilled mechanic, engineer or DIY enthusiast could make sense of them and effect the very minimum of a temporary repair or even something more permanent. Glue, bits of leather, iron wire and screw drivers are still remarkably common-place in hardware stores and elsewhere.

At the re-opening of a certain cathedral organ in the UK, a "spike" in the electrical system caused a considerable delay in proceedings, and it wasn't until the second-half of the programme that the full organ could be used.

I just wonder of there isn't a certain attractiveness in transmission-systems which require little more than a few multi-plugs and a minimum of wiring, but at what cost long-term?


Thank you MM.

One of the points often mentioned when making a case for a pipe organ versus an electronic instrument is the likely eventual obsolescence of the components and technology in the latter. As you point out, much of the electronics associated with the keyboards and stops in an electric action pipe organ could be very similar to the equivalent parts in the electronic organ.

This is unfortunate when one is faced with a situation where the only practical option for a pipe organ may be to have the body of it in one place and a detached console in another. It’s likely I suppose that most of us would prefer the sound of the pipe organ anyway, but it does rather undermine one argument at least, for instance when trying to convince sceptical members of a PCC.

In a major overhaul of a detached console pipe organ, what proportion of the cost would be tied up in replacing obsolete electronics? How would this compare with the cost of renewing worn out parts of a mechanical action? Probably an impossible question to answer in general terms.

Of course there is the other angle you mention, that whereas a competent organ builder may turn out most mechanical parts in-house, the design and manufacture of electronics is a different matter.

You mention Hall-effect sensors for keyboard actions. Optical sensors could also be an option. Yet only four years or so ago I happened to be in an organ builder’s workshop where a two manual detached console instrument was being rebuilt, and noticed that the keyboard was still being equipped with wiper- style contacts for the keys.

I asked whether they ever considered using one of the alternatives and was told no, because they preferred the wiper contact type. Why, I wondered. Was it a cost saving measure? Were or are they more reliable? Or was that particular organ builder just more familiar with them and therefore felt on safer ground? Did he feel unsure about the different circuitry or power supply requirements associated with Hall-effect or optical devices?

……….At the re-opening of a certain cathedral organ in the UK, a "spike" in the electrical system caused a considerable delay in proceedings, and it wasn't until the second-half of the programme that the full organ could be used.……………..


What do organ builders do when confronted with an installation requiring electronics I wonder? Do they consult an engineer, or rely on advice from the manufacturers? It would be interesting to hear comments on this, particularly from the professionals.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / John H. Cowin & Co., Liverpool.
« on: April 20, 2012, 08:02:42 AM »
I have already posted this request on another forum but am also trying here, just in case it may reach a little further.

Does anyone know anything about John H. Cowin & Co. of Liverpool please? I can find no real information on the internet so suspect that they no longer exist. If not, were they taken over by another firm, or did they just disappear?

My reason for asking is that I am trying to trace the origins of an organ which they sold to a church in what is now Merseyside, back in the 1950s. The instrument was not built by them but rather supplied as "Second hand, fully reconditioned." I know the original builder; my interest now is in where it was installed originally, before Cowin sold it on.

I am wondering if their records may have survived somewhere, even if the firm is no longer around.

Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.

Electronic Organs / Conn 643 for sale
« on: November 25, 2011, 07:47:15 AM »
Not sure which section this should be posted under, but there is a Conn 643 for sale on eBay:

May be of interest to someone.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Board response
« on: November 16, 2011, 07:30:15 AM »
"The Board" seems to be playing lentissimo (and some) this morning. Server or site maintenance? Other problems?

Not a complaint, just curious.


Organs wanted / 2 Manual plus Pedal Pipe Organ Wanted.
« on: August 15, 2011, 05:24:15 PM »
Redundant pipe organ wanted for an Anglican church:

Two manual plus pedal with around 12 or 13 speaking stops. Tracker / mechanical throughout if possible.

Approximate maximum overall dimensions: W 9' x D 8' x H 15' (excluding the normal 2' x 2' blower box, which could be accommodated alongside). Much depends on the appearance, shape and design.

Electric blower, but a working hand pump would also be an advantage.

The instrument will have to stand against a wall but will be on view from the front and both sides.

Finding a redundant pipe organ is easy, there are many of them, (too many), and some would appear to be very good instruments. But finding the right one to fit a particular situation is proving to be rather more difficult. The obvious sources, IBO Redundant List etc., are being monitored and enquiries have been made in several places.

If anyone knows of a redundant instrument which might fit the bill and is not currently listed on the IBO Redundant Organs website, or with the Methodist Church Organs Advisor, I would be grateful if they could send me a PM.

Many thanks,


Organs in danger / Single Manual plus Pedal Wadsworth 1926
« on: July 24, 2011, 03:42:52 PM »
Wadsworth 1926.     NPOR G01373

Width (including pipe array)     2.3 metres
Width (console panel)    1.4 metres
Depth (not incl. pedals)   1.4 metres
Height                 c. 4 metres

To be removed in the Autumn.

I have contact details if required. (PM).

Organs in danger / 3 manual Harrison & Harrison 1902 - Church closed.
« on: July 22, 2011, 07:53:19 AM »
26 stop 3 manual:

Church closed. Once again I have details. Please send me a PM if you would like them.

Organs in danger / Vowles one manual plus pedal to be removed.
« on: July 22, 2011, 06:41:03 AM »
I have just heard that this organ is to be removed during September as part of a re-ordering project:

Dimensions: Width 2.26m,   Depth 1.16m plus 0.4m overhang,   Height 4.07m [from floor-level to top of pipework]

Stop List:

Bourdon      16
Open Diapason   8
Clarabella      8
Gamba              8
Flute         4

I have the details, including photographs, and a contact number. If anyone would like them please send me a PM.

The picture on the NPOR site makes the organ look much larger than the pictures I have been sent. All a matter of perspective I suppose.

Organs in danger / Redundant organs in listed buildings
« on: June 24, 2011, 09:34:24 AM »
While making enquiries about an organ in a closed, but not sold, church, I was advised that because it is a listed building, removal of the organ may not be allowed and it may have to be incorporated into whatever scheme is approved for the building after it is sold.

I am told that it all depends on whether the local council regards the organ as a fixture or a fitting. The latter may be removed but the former may not. In short it appears to be down to how the local council, or more probably an official in the council offices, interprets the rules.

This seems to be a very haphazard way of doing things. Two different councils may have very similar situations, yet one could allow an organ to be removed while the other may not.

A search on the forum has turned up this post by Barry Williams:,475.msg1921.html#msg1921

 For ease of reading, the following is an edited version:


There are detailed guidelines explaining the application of the relief to pipe organs in Listed (technically, 'Protected') Buildings…………...  Following a test case (not involving organs,) the fabric of the building was defined as being the floor, windows, doors, walls and roof.  There are wider circumstances………….. (providing that the organ is actually part of the building,) …………………..
Barry Williams

I am a little puzzled by the post.

On the one hand it says “The fabric of the building was defined as being the floor, windows, doors, walls and roof.” It then continues “(Providing that the organ is actually part of the building.)”

Does the latter statement not imply a possible modification of the former?

Is it a good thing to apply this rule to organs anyway?

It’s possible to visualize various scenarios here, and I can see all sorts of associated arguments, but I am thinking mainly about an instance where an organ may be ‘trapped’ somewhere where it may just be hidden and left to rot, if a building is converted into perhaps a residence or flats, or removed to a place where it may be maintained and used as a musical instrument.

Has anyone had any experience of this, or any thoughts? Barry perhaps?

Pages: [1] 2

Locations of visitors to this page

Organ Design

Latroba Holidays