Organ matters - Organs matter!

Quote from: liberclavis on April 23, 2013, 12:08:09 AM
Someone, somewhere knows the answer - so please tell me: how many five-manual organs were there in England in 1913.  Why then? because I am writing an article about the moribund Cavaille-Coll organ in Manchester Town Hall.  It started life as a three-deck, C-C added a fourth in 1893 and Lewis a fifth in 1913.  The only verifiable ones I can find are Doncaster, Calne, St Pauls and Westminster Abbey.  Not sure when the Christ's Hospital one was put in.  Any additions to this list, anyone?  Thanks

That at Christ's Hospital, Horsham was rebuilt as a five-clavier instrument in 1931, by Rushworth and Dreaper. However, the fifth clavier only controlled the West End division - which consisted of three stops: an Open Diapason 8ft., an Octave Diapason 4ft. (given erroneously as 8ft., in the NPOR survey) and a Tuba Magna (C.S. Lang was the Director of Music there, between 1929 - 45).

To your verified list, you can add the following:

Hexham Abbey (HN&B, 1904: V/47)

Norwich Cathedral (N&B, 1899: V/65 - including Gongs on the Echo Organ.)

Incidentally, in Calne (at the stated date), there were technically two five-clavier organs. Both were commissioned by Henry Harris, the bacon magnate; one for the parish church (Saint Mary the Virgin) and another for his private residence (Castle House). However, in the case of the instrument at his house, the Solo Organ was prepared-for, only.*

Incidentally, 'diapason' is correct - Paul Derrett now owns the five-clavier console, which was formerly connected to the instrument in Tewkesbury Abbey (in its previous incarnation). I did once play this instrument, although it was pretty much on its last 'pipes' by that time (1993).



* For the record, the instrument at Castle House is no longer present. That at the parish church is - although rebuilt and reduced to four claviers, in 1963, by the original firm (Conacher). Having played it on a number of occasions (including for a carol service with a capacity congregation), I can only describe it as a heap of junk. Tonally, it is a disaster; mechanically, it was somewhat unreliable. Apparently, in 2002, the church appealed for £250,000, in order to restore the instrument. The work was to be undertaken in three stages, with completion projected for 2008. I have no idea if this was achieved. However, if the targets were met and the restoration carried-out, I would hate to have to have played this instrument prior to its restoration - it must have been appalling.

Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on March 28, 2013, 07:14:49 AM
The Trondheim Steinmeyer is in quite good hands anyway
with the outstanding Kuhn firm (Männedorf, ZH / CH):

http://www.orgelbau.ch/site/index.cfm?1=1&laufnummer=801590&fuseaction=orgelbau.orgelportrait&ID_SITE=52&id_art=4437&vsprache=EN

"The original specification of the organ will be reinstated, the pipes restored or reconstructed"
(Quote)

Best wishes,
Pierre

This is good news. This instrument has had a somewhat unhappy existence to-date, being unceremoniously butchered in the 1960s. It is good to see that it is to be restored to its 1930's state.

Stories and rumours aside, one only has to read back-issues of The Rotunda to gain an insight into the character of HWIII. He was probably one of the most innovative, well-travelled and open-minded organ builders of his time. Many instruments which bear his name were ground-breaking in one sense or another. That at Westminster Cathedral was (and is) a truly stunning instrument - with a scheme which illustrated clearly that HWIII was not content simply to produce yet another 'Edwardian' * cathedral organ.

This said, I do not believe that he was always right - but then, who is? Even his schemes showed many similarities and a clear, often predictable 'house style' (although this is probably inevitable). The work undertaken at Southwark Cathedral, in 1952, was nothing short of disastrous and perhaps indicated that, as HWIII approached old age, he became more intransigent, less able to distinguish true genius in the work of other builders.



* Yes, I know that George V was king at the time, but I regard  the description of an organ as 'Edwardian' to be sufficiently identifiable to warrant its use, here.

Quote from: David Pinnegar on March 20, 2013, 12:28:01 PM
Hi!

Yes - the identities might be a matter of amusement indeed - but the very image of being in that situation as a young lad with a motorcycle that had broken down, without prior notice, is and being sacked for the matter I thought to be wonderful farce enough . . . so apologise for not filling in the other two sides to the picture!

Best wishes

David P

Indeed!

There was also the case of a lay clerk at Guildford Cathedral, who (in the early 1960s) was involved in a minor traffic accident on his way to the cathedral, for a rehearsal prior to Evensong. Such was his fear of Barry Rose (who was extremely strict with every member of the choir and would brook no excuses for tardiness), that the hapless singer actually wrenched off the bumper from his own vehicle, as proof of the incident....

Quote from: David Pinnegar on March 16, 2013, 01:01:42 PM
From the archives . . .

RUBBER STAMP
LETTER HEAD OF
RENOWNED ORGAN BUILDER
12 April 1967

Dear Mr (current eminent organ builder)

Ha!

Of course, the problem is that now we should all like to know the identities of the two participants....

     It has been decided to dismiss you without notice
because of your failure to report for work, being
absent to repair your motorcycle without prior request
for leave of absence.

     This follows repeated warnings about poor time-
keeping, unreliability and general conduct.

                             For and on behalf of
                             (RENOWNED ORGAN BUILDER)

Ha!

Of course, the problem is that now we should all like to know the identities of the two participants....

With regard to metronome speeds in Reger's works, it should also be borne in mind that, at the time, it was customary for German organists to play rather slowly and ponderously. Therefore, Reger greatly exaggerated his speeds, in order that performers would play them at a tempo at least approaching that which he had in mind. The one exception was, of course, Karl Straube, who knew exactly which speeds were appropriate for the organ works of Max Reger.

Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on February 25, 2013, 04:54:11 PM
This organ, presently being built, has an interesting Specifications
which shows the latest trends:

http://www.orgelbau-klais.com/m.php?tx=182

Best wishes,
Pierre

This is an interesting scheme - and with a somewhat larger range of couplers than is customary. There looks to be the potential for much tone colour, here.

Obviously, taste will differ for everyone here. However, on paper there is little that I should wish to change. My own preference would be the following:

HAUPTWERK

Substitute a Cone Gamba (8ft.) for the Dulciana.

CONTINUOWERK

Substitute a Prestant 4ft. for the Salicional and re-pitch the Quinte (1 1/3ft.) as a 1ft. Sifflöte.

SCHWELLWERK

Substitute a conventional breaking Mixture  (15-19-22) for the Progressio.

PEDAL

No change.

COUPLERS

No change.

Quote from: Pierre Lauwers on January 01, 2013, 12:23:30 PM
At least viewed from the continent, this is a summit of the 20th century:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR1WOtJxuFU

Best wishes,
Peter

A very Happy New Year to you, Pierre.

Thank you for this. A very fine organ; although I was surprised to read of the present location of the console, in one of the comments below the video. If I have read it correcty, putting it in a 'cupboard' below the re-sized Choir Organ could only be a retrograde step. When I played this organ, the console was, if I recall correctly, in the South Transept.

The playing sounds fine - although I thought that the organ sounded rather short of wind near the end. A pity, also, about the acoustic properties of the building - I think that it is even more 'dead' than my own church. 

Quote from: Barrie Davis on December 14, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Hi

I just put in Bradford and found it in the listings.

Best wishes

Barrie

Weird - So did I - and did not find it in the listings.

(I looked twice - carefully.)

How very odd....

Quote from: Barrie Davis on December 10, 2012, 10:02:22 AM
Hi

I noticed this organ on a recent television prog and looked it up on NPOR, it seems that heating engineers cut the wind trunking to the organ a few years ago. Is there any hope of it being made playable again??

Best wishes

Barrie

I am beginning to wonder if the version of the NPOR which I am able to access actually exists in a parallel universe. I have tried:

'george bradford'
'bradford'
george hall'
'saint george hall'

... and still I cannot persuade the site to disgorge the stoplist.

So, what DO I type?

Tsk...tsk...tsk

Quote from: revtonynewnham on December 11, 2012, 10:32:51 AM
Hi

It's, sadly, getting on for 12 months delay at present - partly down to the fact that we're in the process of training new editors, which takes up some of the limited time that the existing team have in mentoring them.  Hopefully before long the backlog will start to reduce.  We will get to everything eventually!  All the editors are volunteers, and NPOR work has to be fitted in around other commitments and "the day job!".

Every Blessing

Tony
(NPOR Editor)

Tony - I have offered to assist with this (and, presumably, receive training as an editor), if it is any help. So far, I have yet to receive an acknowledgement from your colleague.... (It certainly never surfaced in my 'in-box'.)

I appreciate that they are volunteers, but such long delays are frustrating and unhelpful from this side....

Quote from: Gwas_Bach on November 24, 2012, 04:48:42 PM
pcnd,

"Albans Cathedral" works! Note the lack of an apostrophe.

Thank you - although I did try 'albans cathedral hertfordshire'.

Quote from: flared_ophicleide on November 22, 2012, 12:11:19 AM

Quote from: David Drinkell on October 14, 2012, 04:41:34 AM
The only things I felt it lacked were a substantial 16' reed on the manual - the Swell double reed was very light

I agree indeed.  According to the stoplist I found on NPOR, this 16' reed is a Crumhorn.  If a 16' Crumhorn is going to go anywhere in an organ, it should be put in a Positive.  At least a Contra Fagotto (if not a Double Trumpet) should be in the Swell, esp. in a cathedral organ. ...

Indeed - I almost wonder if there was a slight Downes influence, here; c.f. his instruments in Buckfast Abbey (Swell: Contra Clarinet 16ft., extended to 8ft.) and Saint Alban's Cathedral and Abbey (Swell: Corno di Bassetto 16ft.).

Incidentally, Tony (if you read this); could you try searching for the organ of Saint Alban's Cathedral and Abbey, Herts, on the NPOR - and, if successful, let me know what you typed in the 'Search by buildings' box, in order to find details of this instrument, please? I tried about eight or ten permutations (remembering to omit 'noise' words) - but with no success....

For the record, I even tried simply 'Hertfordshire', and got about thirty or so buildings - but not the cathedral. Surely this cathedral organ has been included by someone?

In the end, I tried the cathedral's website - which has a good photograph of the new H&H console and a detailed stoplist. I note with interest the additions (I wonder if they will ever put in their Nave Organ?) - including the large quantity of new façade pipes (two ranks on the Pedal Organ and three on the G.O.). As far as I can recall, I do not believe that there is any extension in these stops, so it looks as if practically all of the case pipes have been replaced. Interesting - I wonder why?

I note also that the chorus mixtures have been re-pitched lower (again?) - and that the tierce rank has been removed from the Swell Cimbel, which now commences at 29-33-36. 

Perhaps the least surprising addition is the new 32ft. reed, although to judge from its name, I should imagine that it is fairly gentle - perhaps in the mold of that at Chichester Cathedral. Downes seemed frequently to eschew such stops.   The only examples I can recall are (obviously) the RFH (H&H) and Saint David's Hall. Cardiff (Collins). However, there are a number of examples of instruments designed by him, for large buildings, which did not possess such a rank: Buckfast Abbey, Gloucester Cathedral, Paisley Abbey and Saint Alban's Cathedral. This seems a little strange, since, when writing about the 32ft. Bombarde at the RFH, he said of it: '...increased the roundness and general musicality of this important but critical stop, as heard in the tutti'. *



* p. 177, Baroque Tricks: Adventures with the Organ Builders - Ralph Downes. Positif Press, Oxford. (1983.)           

Quote from: revtonynewnham on October 10, 2012, 02:54:35 PM
Hi

I heard today that the Mander pipe organ (long out of use) has been removed by a firm of organ builders - hopefully it will resurface elsewhere in due course.  at least it hasn't been dumped.  I don't know if a new or secondhand pipe organ is on the cards - I'll post again if I hear more.

Every Blessing

Tony

This is interesting - as far as I knew, it was supposed to have been removed years ago. At one time, the authorities at Newquay Parish Church (Cornwall) expressed serious interest in it. However, the planned installation did not materialise and this church is now having a replacement pipe organ which is a combination of two existing instruments.

Could I also request details by PM, please, Tony?

I do have a recording of this instrument and, whilst perhaps not Mander's finest, it nevertheless seemed to acquit itself fairly well. I can only judge from the recording, but I am not sure of the accuracy of Graham Matthews' claim of it being more neo-Classical than Gloucester or Blackburn. It simply sounded middle-of-the-road 'enlightened' post-Romantic - if this convoluted description actually means anything.

I also hope that their appeal goes well - although their claim regarding the size of the instrument could do with some clarification. It might be better to specify 'within the Anglican community'. The JW Walker organ at Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral is geographically (or, physically, if you prefer) within the Liverpool Diocese. This instrument is substantially larger than that at Ormskirk.

Quote from: AnOrganCornucopia on April 18, 2012, 12:55:20 AM
Interesting. It has to be said that a really good Acoustic can be excellent where height is at a premium. I do love a big metal Contra Violone, too - they do seem to be the most effective type of open 32.

What are Compton Polyphones and Cube Basses like?

Yes - although the Double Open Diapason (of wood) at Bristol Cathedral is also an excellent stop - and in superb acoustics.

Quote from: Barrie Davis on July 07, 2012, 06:45:03 PM
Thank you for this, obviously NPOR and Elvin are wrong, it is after all 30 years since Elvins book was produced, I will endeavour to get more information.

Best wishes

Barrie

There is a little more information on this site:

http://www.tdoa.co.uk/Organs/070519parishchurchsidmouth.htm

Quote from: MusingMuso on June 29, 2012, 02:36:25 PM

Quote from: David Drinkell on June 29, 2012, 08:04:01 AM

Quote from: Holditch on June 28, 2012, 06:39:26 PM
Having purchased "The Emperor's Fanfare" and listened to Carlo Curley's performance on the Girard College Organ in Pennsylvania it made me think how many other instruments in the world have a 32ft stop available on the manuals?

British examples include the Royal Albert Hall, Liverpool Anglican Cathedral, Newcastle Cathedral, Ely Cathedral and Melton Mowbray Parish Church.  The Ely example was disconnected at the 1975 rebuild but reappeared in 2001.  Peterborough used to have one, but it disappeared at the last rebuild (I thought it was a shame to lose the enormous spread of 32, three 16s, Phonon, 3 Opens, two flutes and Dulciana).

I've often wondered why there aren't more 32' reeds in very big Swells.

32' pitch on the manuals is more useful than might at first appear.  A lot of French symphonic music presupposes a Cavaille-Coll organ witrh a sub coupler on the Grand, so gravity is an essential part of the concept.

Hello,

Don't forget the Schulze at Doncaster PC, which although a tenor C register, was probably the earliest example.

Best

MM

.... Or that at Norwich Cathedral: the Primary G.O. has a Double Gedeckt - although again to C13 only.

Quote from: matt h on June 10, 2012, 06:38:38 PM
Barrie

Thanks for the advice, and  the example of non availability of parts; I'll add that one to the list.
Has anyone experience of a church which has successfully replaced their toaster with a pipe organ?

Matt.

Yes - Christchurch Priory, in Dorset; although in this case, the pipe organ had remained in the church, standing slient for a quarter of a century, unitl it was re-commissioned in 1999.

Quote from: Waltham Abbey on June 07, 2012, 11:04:14 AM
Greetings from Waltham Abbey. We prefer the term "replacing" rather than the pejorative connotations of "getting rid"! Anyone who would like to pay a visit to meet us is welcome to find out what the organ is like rather than merely working from a stop-list.
Essentially it is a much altered Walker organ of various vintages. It is now suffering from runnings in the sound-boards, sticking sliders and other mechanical problems. No doubt all of these could be fixed, at a price, but the sad fact is that this organ has little of its original integrity left. One option that has been explored is to work again on the existing instrument. Whilst the mechanical failings could be remedied, this is quite a high risk project from the point of view of producing an artistic instrument, worthy of such a historic building. Our view is that is a better use of a comparable amount of money to replace the organ with one of real musical value and cohesion.
Finding a replacement organ has not been a straightforward process. Indeed, if we were in the market for something the size of Newcastle City Hall we would have had a choice of instruments. Similarly, there are any number of smaller organs worthy of a good home. Thankfully we believe that we have found a fine redundant instrument of moderate proportions, to fit a moderately sized building and are currently in the process of receiving tenders for the work. We hope to be able to make an announcement giving further details of our intentions within this calendar year. Perhaps we will post this under Organs Preserved.
Kindest regards,

Thank you for this encouraging information.

Welcome to the board. I wish you well with your search for a suitable instrument.