Why ENTHUSIASM for the organ is ABSOLUTELY necessary in the face of philistines

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

True.  Often digital organs sound impressive for a while and then the sound starts to pall and the compromises show up - but getting a church that's invested several tens of thousands of pounds (potentially) on a digital organ is unlikely to admit that it's not fit for purpose!

Every Blessing

Tony

[Colin Pykett]

I'm resurrecting discussion on this thread as it seems better to use an existing one rather than start up yet another.  However it takes a slightly different direction ...

I am assembling some thoughts for an article which I might post on my website in due course about why there is so strong a decline in interest in the organ.  Therefore I would value your feedback, and if I use any of what you say I will of course acknowledge you in the article if it appears (unless you do not want this).

First, I want to keep this as short as possible.  Second, and partly because of the first, I'll limit discussion to the secular aspect of the organ rather than its strong connection to the church.  There seem to be at least the following issues:

1. Repertoire.  Bach is fantastic of course, but even his greatest devotees (among whom I number myself) occasionally have to broaden their diet.  Yet what else of real quality is there?  Why did hardly any other great composer compose much for the organ?  Even among those who are generally regarded as 'organ' composers, such as Franck, Guilmant and others from the 19th century French school, a disappointingly large proportion of their output is merely pretty dire note-spinning even though their best works are fabulous.  Elgar?  Hardly, apart from 'the' Sonata.  Etc, etc.

2.  Playing standards.  We have recently discussed the excellent playing of Paul Derrett, so now let's look at the other side of the coin.  I find the standard of live performance deviates rather too far and too often from what one ought to expect (I'm referring to professional players here).  As examples, I once went to the obligatory Proms organ recital at the Albert Hall, given by a famous Continental player and pedagogue.  Yet despite the lunatic and distracting antics of TWO registrants, he shuddered to a dead stop in the middle of Widor's Toccata (yes, you know the one).  The slow hand clap at the end was so embarrassing, and I agreed with the chap sitting next to me who said he would be demanding his money back!

Then there was the time at Chichester cathedral when the performer (a former cathedral organist) brought on full organ by mistake in the middle of one of Mendelssohn's quietest movements.  I was sitting opposite the console in the quire, and we nearly jumped through the roof.

Then there was a benefit concert for the Ally Pally organ, played some years back on the incomplete instrument by a variety of players, all of whom are well known.  A friend and myself spent an entire Sunday going to London and back for this event, picking up my sister en route.  We all regretted it.  Apart from anything else, some chap suddenly got out of his seat and ran up the hall while one of the players was introducing his programme and shouted at the top of his voice "WE CAN'T HEAR YOU".  I didn't know who he was at the time but was later informed it was one of the Willis dynasty.  (If it was not, I apologise.  I am merely repeating what I was told).  The whole thing was a disgrace from start to finish.

Recorded items are usually better, but even here there can be problems because editing a performance from a reverberant ambience is next to impossible.  As an example, one of Thalben-Ball's tracks (Chichester again - and I can mention him by name because one can't libel the deceased) contains the most appalling and intrusive edit at one point where he must have made a terrible mess for some reason.

I could go on, but need not for the following reason.  Like most folk, I don't spend my entire waking life going to organ recitals or listening to CD's of them.  Therefore, it is just not good enough to spend a lot of time and money getting to a venue, parking the car, queuing, and then doing the same thing in reverse afterwards when this sort of thing must be happening quite often on the basis of my relatively sparse random sampling of the scene.  And then there's the cost of the tickets.

3.  Quality of the organs.  Apart from their tonal qualities, which are highly variable, the number of times organs fail during a performance is just as unacceptable as the quality of the playing.  Usually these organs have electric actions.   The Royal Festival Hall organ has failed completely at least once to my certain knowledge, as has that at St Peter's, Nottingham.  Examples of organs which have been out of service for extended periods for similar reasons are too numerous to mention.

Excuse me guys, but are we supporting a joke instrument?  I know this is a provocative question which concludes a provocative post, but the point is that the organ will die if non-organists continue to see too much of this sort of thing.  Bums on seats are what matter.  I am reminded of an occasion a few years back (it was reported in Organists' Review) when a BBC music programming executive stormed out of a meeting at which Margaret Phillips, then the RCO President, was speaking.  He then wrote a piece in the press asking exactly why should the BBC put out more organ music, which we organ nuts continually want them to do.

Thanks for reading!

Colin Pykett

[David Pinnegar]

Dear Colin

I think that one can't entirely dismiss the correlation between numbers of young people who are introduced to church and or the concept of God at all nowadays and the numbers of children who are introduced to the organ, whether at the cinema or at the church . . . where else?

Best wishes

David P

[Barry Williams]

Regrettaby, some of the problems have been caused by 'top name' recitalists.

Many years ago several consecutive recitals at the Fairfield Hall included Bach's Passacaglia & Fugue in their programme.  It is a fine piece and well worthy of more than one hearing, but not four in a row!  Then there was the recitalist who played all three of Franck's Chorales as the entire second half, one straight after the other.  The Fairfield Hall acoustic is not helpful to organ tone and the organ is far from satisfactory.  Time and again recitalists blast our ears with 'wrong note' music and then wonder why people do not attend organ recitals.

There are interpretive 'fads' too.  For example, this nonsense that every group of three notes in baroque music has to have a slur over the first two and the third staccato becomes as irritating as the notion that all romantic music (apart from the occasional piece of Franck) is 'unclean'.

Years later it was a joy to hear William Davies, with George Blackmore and Ralph Downes, show just what can be done (at the Fairfield Hall) when they 'let their hair down'.  Unfortunately, by that time the real damage had been done and organ recitals never recovered at the Fairfield Hall.

Many of the newer instruments are built in the 'neo-baroque' style, whatever that may be.  It is quite clear that the one thing they are not is 'baroque' and that is obvious to anyone who has ever heard such an instrument.  Yet listening to them is very wearing and they simply cannot give a reasonable account of much of the standard repertoire.

Reverting for a moment to Colin's point about the Elgar Sonata,  the first movement is really rather good, but it loses momentum thereafter.  The 'Second Sonata' is an arrangement, approved by the composer, by Ivor Atkins of the 'Severn Suite'  whose original score was dedicated to G B Shaw.  (Elgar lived in Severn House.)  It is much better music than the first Sonata yet is eschewed by many recitalists because it is an arrangement.  Happily, things are changing, for there are now CDs of, for example, Hollins' beautiful music played on nice organs. but the damage remains and the blame rests with quite a few of the 'big names' of the organ world. 

Yet all is not lost, for there are still a few recitalists who can command an audience, despite the ridicule that is unjustly heaped on them by musical snobs.  Let us never forget that music (including organ music) is part of the entertainment industry.

Like Colin, organ music is but a part of the appreciation my wife and I have for music.  Yet, even in orchestral concerts, bad programme planning can cause difficulties.  There was a series of concerts at the Fairfield Hall given by the Mozart Players. About one third of the total time in each concert (it was always the last piece of the first half) was given over to some ghastly piece of tuneless music.  The only way one knew it has finished was when the players put their instruments down.  Again, people voted with their feet.  Musical snobbery is the real enemy of music and it is not restricted to organs, by any means.

Barry Williams

[KB7DQH]

What "scares" me is that there is at least one organist who understands these issues completely...
and his opinions generally line up with the assertions being recently presented by Colin and Barry...

Can you guess which one ???

"Classical" music in general is suffering along these same lines however without the instrument/performer failure modes described above, but for the rest of the reasons documented so well by others here.

But organists other than the one I alluded to earlier take a slightly different approach in the hope that they can develop their own audience following, whether in-person or via electronic media distribution.

I posted a news article in the "Organ Concerts" section of this forum of just such a performance.

I am thinking that based on my limited observations the tide may be turning at least here in the USA, but only just...

Eric
KB7DQH

[Colin Pykett]

Many thanks, everybody, for these constructive replies.  I would like to dip into them when writing my web article in due course, but anonymously (i.e. you will not be mentioned by name).

Responding to David who said one cannot dismiss the connection between the organ and the church, I completely agree, but I only considered its secular status in my post for the sake of brevity on this board.   It's not a simple issue though, and interestingly it has surfaced recently in discussions which have been reported in recent issues of Organists' Review among others.  One well known cathedral organist (I won't name him) takes a dismissive stance along the lines of "yes, the organ is elitist, and yes most cathedral organists come from privileged backgrounds, as do their clergy, and I don't give a fig".  I have a horrible suspicion that's rather a short term and narrow view which won't get church music, and possibly him personally, very far though. 

I'm not sure I go along either with those at the opposite pole of the argument who say that the church is dying and therefore that we should detach the organ from it as quickly as possible so that it can flourish purely in the secular environment.  From some of what I see, the church is not actually dying at all.  Not far from where I live are two very different examples of what is happening more widely I suspect.  One is a traditional 'posh' stone building situated in a staunchly middle class parish where many of the houses sell for over a million pounds - they are on the hill overlooking Portsmouth harbour and the Solent.  In fact I used to play the (pipe) organ there until a few years ago.  Yet one is lucky to get more than 50 souls at a 'family' service, and more than 5 at Evensong.  On the basis of this alone one might conclude that the church is indeed dying.

Yet on the other hand, there is a joint Methodist and Anglican church (a 'local ecumenical project') using a modern building.  It is almost impossible to get into the large car park unless you get there very early before a service.  This church serves a far less privileged community, in fact it lies not far from one of the largest socially-deprived housing estates in Europe.  This church certainly gives no hint at all that it is dying!  However, they do not have an organ (actually, not true, they have a little 'spinet' type electronic which is, I was told, occasionally used).  The interesting aspect here is that, to use David's example, children are definitely being introduced to God, yet not the organ.  What conclusion can we draw here?

So as I said, the association between the church and the organ is not a simple one in my view.

Best wishes and a Happy Easter Day.

Colin Pykett

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

A lot of the problem in churches is that the organ is seen as "elitist" and old-fashioned, and having no place in contemporary worship (a view not helped by the intransigence of many organists who dismiss contemporary styles - and sometimes anything newer than "hymns Ancient and not quite so Ancient" as rubbish).

Contrary to popular opinion, the organ can be used effectively alongside, and as part of, a "worship band", as a few of us demonstrate regularly.

It doesn't help when a denominational leader says that we should get rid of organs!  (The current General Secretary of the Baptist Union of Gt Britain) - and out of 100 ministers who were there, only two of us reacted negatively.  This sort of misguided attitude just makes the whole job so much harder, and deprives the church of a resource which, more often than not, was bought by the sacrificial giving of preceding generations.

Every Blessing

Tony

[Colin Pykett]

I can't wholly empathise with organists who take the attitude described by Tony, though I've met enough of them in my time.  I too have little problem playing along with worship bands, and have also deserted the console completely on occasions.  At the said traditional church mentioned in an earlier post where I once was organist, they had quite a nice piano.  Not infrequently I used it for more intimate services, such as when just a few turned up for Evensong.  On such occasions they all sat in the choir stalls, and the lay preacher who was taking the service once said "what, an organist agreeing to play the piano - we must have him stuffed".   Although, obviously, jocular, the implied undertone revealed a view no doubt widely held about organists by the clergy.

On another occasion I had a wedding couple who were having difficulty deciding which music to have before the bride arrived.  So I suggested a Mozart Sonata on the piano.  It went down a treat on the day and several people came up afterwards to say what a refreshing change it was, even though the organ itself was needed to support the singing of a large congregation during the rest of the service.

We organists sometimes need to be a little more flexible I feel.  In return we might find the barriers to our art might be lifted?

Colin Pykett

[Barrie Davis]

Hi

I have read with interest Tony and Colins replies to this topic.
I agree with both of them, organists should be far more flexible and be prepared to use modern music in conjunction with the more "Ancient!" hymns. This morning at my Easter morning service we used Songs of Fellowship as well as Hymns Old and New. The mix works and the age group withing the church is very varied. I did use the piano for one song, the other adapted to the organ.
We dispensed with Evensong many years ago as it was not supported and have an informal Mass once a month.
Organists must be flexible.

Happy Easter

Barrie

[KB7DQH]

And wouldn't you know it... Google drops a related news article into my inbox just as this thread gets going...

http://www.globegazette.com/news/local/article_0a73c7b4-6e29-11e0-91eb-001cc4c002e0.html

MASON CITY -- The pipe organ was called "the king of instruments" by 18th century composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart.

"That's because every instrument you could ever think of is represented by a pipe rank of the organ," said organist Marlene Schroeder of Northwood.

"And one person can make it happen."

It is also the only instrument ever created to lead worship, Schroeder said.

But in a world where churches are turning more and more to contemporary music and instruments such as the piano, electronic keyboard and guitar, the question arises as to whether the king may be on the way out.

"I don't think people today think of organ music as 'hip,' " said Ryan Hulshizer of Northwood. "Churches today are trying to appeal to a younger crowd. Praise bands seem to be pretty prevalent."

Hulshizer, who at 28 is one of the younger members of the North Iowa Chapter of the American Guild of Organists (AGO), started playing the organ at church when he was 9.

"I thought it was an interesting gadget," he said. "And I admired the church organist. I thought it would be neat to lead the congregation in worship."

Piano and organ require years of training to master. That is probably one reason a lot of young people don't take it up, Hulshizer said.

"Young people are not really going to church as much any more," Hulshizer said. "They're not hearing the organ as much."

and then ends with...

At a recent concert for the Brown Bag Bach Lenten Organ Meditation series, Schroeder performed a diverse program of organ music on a Rodgers organ at the First Presbyterian Church in Mason City.

Beginning with "Aria," a modern composition by Paul Manz, she filled the church with the sounds of rich, majestic music that could be alternately joyful, glorious and foreboding.

"There's still wonderful stuff being written for the organ," observed Crail. "Organ music for worship or concerts is not dead by any means."

Eric
KB7DQH

[Colin Pykett]

I've just watched the royal wedding ceremony on TV and was interested to see that the organ was scarcely used other than to accompany the three hymns.  Virtually all other accompaniments were provided by the London Chamber Orchestra.  Impeccably expert in its way, I nevertheless wonder how well it was able to support the singing in that vast building.  I must admit to some disappointment that Parry's transcendentally beautiful "I was glad" was accompanied, not by the organ, but by the trumpeters and the orchestra as the bride walked up the aisle.  The organ may well have been in there somewhere, but it very much took a back seat, at least judging by the BBC's sound feed.

For the purposes of this thread, this seems to pose a problem.  I had always assumed that the organ still retained its place without question at the pinnacle of church music, i.e. in the cathedrals and especially for great state occasions.  But for this event it was relegated to little more than a hymn machine.  So we rather seem to be on a losing wicket if we strive to drum up interest for it in churches at local level.

Therefore, perhaps those who argue that its only future lies in a yet-to-be-fully-defined secular role might well be right.

Colin Pykett

[Barry Williams]

I totally agree with Colin that the organ needs a secular future.  Churches have proved that they can throw away their heritage at the drop of a clerical whim - architecturally, liturgically and pastorally, not to mention music and organs.

I do not agree with that organ was reduced to a hymn machine at the Royal Wedding.  It was heard to great effect in a number of other pieces, kept in balance but distinctly present, in accordance with the composers' scores.

One of the greatest supporters of organs was a splendid chap named Oliver Cromwell.  He loved music but was determined to keep the clergy away from dominating the church, so his mates banned organs in churches.  Oliver had church organs installed in secular places for enjoyment.   That is a very good idea.

If we could do that nowadays we would bridge the (imaginery) gap between the 'light' music world and church.  A return to the old fashioned 'town hall' recital style would bring a renewed interest in the organ.  I am sorry to say that there are a number of clergy who are the opinion that organs should not be used in worship.  (See Tony's comments.)

The organ still retains its foremost position as an accompanimental instrument for large churches and cathedrals.  There has always been an orchestra for the 'great' occasions in Westminster Abbey.  It is at a local level that harm has been done to divine worship by clergy following outdated 'fashion', rather than embracing the contemporary music that would inspire the younger people.  (i.e. forget 'Songs of Fellowship' and have heavy metal, riff, rave, bob, pop, etc.  I am far more comfortable with the honesty of real contemporary music than the dishonesty of 'Singers and Seekers in ecclesiastical garb' that adorns many services nowadays.  That false style is the real enemy of the organ.

Barry Williams

[KB7DQH]

"This Just In..."

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/news/why-musicians-cant-resist-the-9997pipe-king-of-instruments-2278063.html

Weighing 150 tons, soaring 70ft into the air and featuring 9,997 pipes, the Royal Albert Hall's 19th-century pipe organ is far from contemporary music's cutting edge. However that hasn't stopped a spate of pop and rock musicians from blasting the bombastic instrument into the modern age.

In the Albert Hall's mammoth pipe organ's history, contemporary artists including Muse, Madness and Deep Purple have all played or composed for it. Sir Elton John, who learnt to play one as a student, expressed his support for the London instrument's much-needed 2002 refurbishment. Now British-Indian musician and composer Nitin Sawhney is the latest to test the organ's stops and pedals, having written a new work for the instrument to be performed by British Hammond organist James Taylor at the Albert Hall this Friday.

"I wanted us to have the opportunity to do something different with this amazing instrument," said Royal Albert Hall director of events Jasper Hope, who commissioned the work. "I was looking around at what had been done before. There are so many potential uses."

Sawhney will use the gig to perform material from his forthcoming album, Last Days of Meaning, released later this month, as well as the new 15-minute piece.

"There is so much you can do with this thing, the sheer scale of sound is incredible," Sawhney told the the BBC Radio 4 programme Front Row.

(Mentioned elsewhere on this forum ;)

Hope commissioned Sawhney after seeing Muse lead singer Matt Bellamy play his hit track "Megalomania" on the instrument in 2008 at a benefit concert for the Teenage Cancer Trust. Bellamy introduced his performance by saying: "Since we're at the Royal Albert Hall, it would be rude not to play this beast"

Others to play the instrument include Madness keyboard player Mike Barson during their number "Swan Lake" at a 2008 concert. In 1969, Deep Purple used the instrument in their Concerto for Group and Orchestra, performed at the Albert Hall with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. The piece featured music composed by the group's co-founder Jon Lord with lyrics by the band's vocalist Ian Gillan.

Those performing on the Albert Hall's organ reflect a recent trend. Canadian band Arcade Fire used a church pipe organ on the songs "Intervention" and "My Body is a Cage" on their successful second album 2007's Neon Bible. Meanwhile, Roger Hodgson, former front man of Supertramp, used a pipe organ for several songs in his 2000 solo album Open the Door. Radiohead's Thom Yorke is a known fan of the church organ, having played one in "Motion Picture Soundtrack", a track on his band's 2000 album Kid A.

Eric
KB7DQH