1 manual Casson pipe organ

[Holditch]

Another interesting looking instrument which would ideally suit a house, and at a price that in a perfect world would be the going rate for this sort of instrument, however I doubt it will sell at this price considering many go for less than tenth of that amount

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Octave-Pipe-Organ-/120706167043?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item1c1aa5f103

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

I would agree that this is overpriced - Casson's "Positives" usually have short compass (F as lowest note) and were designed for small churches and the reluctant organist.  The stigma has tended to stay with them.  However, where space is a consideration and you want real pipes, I would say that they're a viable option. 

Every Blessing

Tony

[Colin Pykett]

This thread opens a topic which has always somewhat mystified me.   Let's be clear.  This is a tiny, 4 octave, one manual organ.  Even if it worked perfectly, which the listing on ebay makes clear it does not, can anyone tell me exactly what they would play on it if they installed it in their house?  I'm not being provocative, I would just like to know!

To my mind, the same applies to most reed organs, though at least they usually have a five octave compass and enjoy a small but valid repertoire of their own (e.g. some of Franck, Vierne, Karg-Elert, Hollins, etc).

The Casson would be useful for a small church of the sort it is already in, because one could accompany singing on it.  But anything else .. ?  Apart from one acquaintance who has a similar Casson and uses it to record sound samples for incorporation in digital organs, I don't know the answer to my own question.

I know more than one person who has installed a similar but brand new pipe organ at considerable expense (56 notes compass, one manual but no pedals) to replace an electronic.  Having met them since, it is patently obvious they feel they have made an expensive mistake, if only because the 'proper' organ music they used to play is now denied to them.

There is no doubt that the 'real' sound of an instrument whose tones are produced by reeds or pipes does have its attractions, particularly when set against electronics, but when the other aspects are so limited, my question posed above still remains unanswered.

So, please guys, what DO people play on such instruments other than hymns?  And as for the price, maybe the 1 April date might be a clue?

Yours controversially

Colin Pykett

[revtonynewnham]

Hi Colin

You're right - the Casson Positives from around the turn of the 19th/20h century were designed as budget organs for small churches with perhaps less than competent players (they often featured automatic bass & melody stops).  The compass was set to cover the requirements of the majority of hymn tunes.  I guess that some of the simple Victorian voluntaries would fit - perhaps with a little juggling.  That's why I consider the instrument to be overpriced.  If you really MUST have pipes, and can live with the limitations, then these are valid instruments.

A little later, 2mp reed organs became common, and these - and later the electronic organs - effectively fill the market segment that Casson was aiming at - and, as Colin says, provide a more versatile instrument.

For home use (and perhaps church use as well) maybe the best compromise is what a friend of mine has done - he has a very nice early 1800's single manual & pedal chamber organ - and across the room a 4 m custom digital organ - the best of both worlds (and giving scope for organ duets - or continuo with both organ & harpsichord (drawn from the additional sounds on the digital organ) with other instruments.

That said, the Casson instruments were, from what I've heard, well built - some even found their way into cathedrals for use in side chapels, etc.  It would be a shame if they were all destroyed - but, as with any small organ, the limitations have to be respected.

Every Blessing

Tony

[David Pinnegar]

Dear Colin and Tony

I have argued for a long time that small instruments like this can provide electronic instruments with a solidly good pipe foundation and that electronic enhancements can possibly make an instrument like this more useful within the practice organ arena. Being of questionably useful merit in themselves, these instruments might be ideal candidates for home experimental and practical hybridisation.

Best wishes

David P

[Jonathan Lane]

As pleasant as they can be, I agree with Colin here.  My belief is that they would rarely be much more than an ornament.

Jonathan

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

I suspect that if I had one I'd use it - simply because it's always available and I don't have to wait for a computer to start up to use my simulated organ practice rig.  And it would look just right in our Victorian-style Manse.  However, if it was a choice between that and something with full manual compass and pedals, then there's no contest!

Every Blessing

Tony

[John]

I go along with David on this one.  Some twenty odd years ago an organist friend said that he thought the fusion of pipes and electronics was going to be A WAY forward in the future.   I laughed at the time until I remembered that back in the late 70s, when I was organist at St. Bartholomew's Brighton, another electronics friend - by way of an experiment and for fun  - temporarly installed a 32 foot reed on the pedals.  I was working on Mulet's 'Tu es Petra' at the time and the effect in those glorious acoustics was very exciting.   Since then Peter Collins has build his much maligned Swedish organ and I understand that something similar has happened at Higham Ferrers   I certainly know of other builders who have installed digital 32ft Open Woods and the like where space is limited.

These are all large instruments of course, but surely the judicious addition of a few digital stops to a limited number of pipe ranks, such as a Casson, could be sensible and make the instrument viable for a much extended repertory. 

People have asked about the tuning problems.    Although I have absolutely no expertise in the field I do believe there are some clever electronic gizzmos that can sense any fluctuation of temerature etc. and adjust the electronics accordingly.    Problem sorted!!

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of playing or working with such an organ?

Regards ....................... John

[revtonynewnham]

Hi

As with so mny other organ deveopments, Compton were pioneers - their electronic Melotone being added to cinema organs in the 19430's (and incidentally, the patents pre-date Hammond)  and by 1937, had applied the technology to a church organ - see http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N06322

Addingham Parish church have a recent hybrid organ - a rebuld of a 2m pipe organ wih additional stops, etc courtesey of Bradford system electronics (in their latest incarnation) - see http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=E01012

I have heard & played this - very interesting.  Designed by my freinds Peter & Lucy Comerford, who invented & developed the Bradford synthesis system (Peter is one of the organists at Addingham) the organ is somewhat larger than is really required - but also serves as a demonstration oran fioor the current BEST technology.  This orgsn has aut6omatic pitch correction for temperature changes - but it's not 100% accurate - no current system is - where do you put the sensor?  Blower outout? Swell box? unenclosed pipework?  All can give slightly different measurements - but there's a fine adjuster.

Just as effective is the digital Nave section of Bradford Cathedral organ http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=A00542 - this uses the simple tuning system - a know under the choir keyboard adjusts the pitch of the electronics -  acouple of seconds to adjust = and then it's fine as long as the temperature in the building doesn't alter too much!  I've also played this - the digital section is an older itteration of the Bradford technology.  I could possibly arrange for you to see & play the last 2 instruments.

There are a handful of other hybrid organs aornd - Peter dVile has put in at least one, Hugh Banton has been involved - Rogers are marketting a system - and so on, but I've not heard or played any of these.

Every Blessing

Tony