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Messages - Janner

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I was at a confirmation service a few weeks ago and was sent into apoplexy by the banality of the lyrics of what were called "songs" accompanied by percussion beats and any tunefulness at best approaching only a dirge. It was the debasement of culture to the worst degree possible and anyone with any intellect would have run out screaming.


Best wishes

David P

For a long time now I have been mulling over the services at my parish church and, quite by coincidence, some time ago I decided that if I had to settle on one word to describe them it would be ‘banal.’ So for me David you have hit that particular nail squarely on the head.

One wonders why this thread hasn't raised controversy..........................................................

Best wishes

David P

The real controversy must surely be about how and why services have become so banal. I would suggest there are many factors, some which could have been avoided by the church (in its general meaning of the C of E) and some which could not.

On a lighter note,

Best wishes to all for a very happy Christmas.


Electronic Organs / Re: New practice organ on its way!
« on: July 26, 2015, 07:43:46 AM »
There is a 'listen to this organ' button on the Viscount website but it doesn't appear to be working. There is a link to a performance on Youtube here:

Hope it gives you many hours of enjoyment Tony.  :)

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Fire at All Saints, Fleet, Hampshire.
« on: June 25, 2015, 07:54:56 AM »
Miscellaneous seems to be a rather understated heading for this but I can't find another more appropriate one.

The link is to a news item on the devastation caused by a fire at All Saints Church, Fleet: (It is a news page so the link may have only a relatively limited life.)

From the photographs, destruction of everything combustible would appear to be more or less complete. NPOR indicates a substantial two manual organ:

According to the report, a 17 year old has been arrested and bailed. Another sad reflection on our times it would seem.

Organ Builders / Bryceson
« on: May 23, 2015, 09:21:54 AM »
Having long had an interest in an organ by Brycesons, it seems to me that their instruments don’t often get mentioned in general discussion, although NPOR lists some 272 organs scattered widely from Shetland to Penzance where they either built the instrument or had some involvement.

According to a thesis here,, Henry Bryceson Junior played a part in the development of electric actions, but there seems to be little comment on the musical qualities of their instruments.

Does anyone have any knowledge, subjective comment, opinion or other snippets of interest regarding the firm’s work which they can share please?

New Pipe Organs / Buckfast Abbey - Ruffatti
« on: May 14, 2015, 07:55:13 AM »
The following links lead to details of the new organ(s) proposed for Buckfast Abbey in South Devon. The old organ was taken out of commission about three years ago and an electronic organ has been in use since. Scrolling down a little on this one shows two views of an artist's impression of the organ in the west gallery, situated to avoid blocking the west windows.


I often carry a mobile 'phone but it is a very basic device and switched on only on the rare occasions when I have to make a particularly pressing call.

I often wonder about those who seem to spend half their lives peering at the screens of their mobile devices, or have them welded to their ears, and are completely oblivious to their surroundings.

Facebook? Personally I have nothing to do with it at all.

I read this, and another organ forum, almost daily, but on a large screen and from the comfort of a decent chair in a quiet environment, where I can devote some worthwhile concentration to the topics of interest.

Best wishes,


Thank you David, and a very happy Easter to you also.

There may be times when the board seems quiet, and times when a particular topic provokes discussion, but that seems to be true of other organ forums as well. Nevertheless I suspect there are others like myself who read it with interest regularly even though they are not organists themselves and therefore do not post very often.

Best wishes,


Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Organ Pipes on eBay!
« on: November 19, 2014, 07:46:58 AM »
Fr. Otto, PM sent.



Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Organ Pipes on eBay!
« on: November 07, 2014, 07:10:09 PM »

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Pipe Organ 2 manuals and pedals
« on: November 05, 2014, 07:35:08 AM »
It looks like there was just one bid for this organ and it sold for the initial starting price of 99p.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Organ Pipes on eBay!
« on: November 01, 2014, 07:34:10 AM »
Interestingly, to start with, I couldn't find the number of another item in the main listing, (see previous topic). Then I realised no items had their numbers displayed. Item numbers used to be quite prominent, so it seems eBay may have changed their page layout.

However, when I clicked on the item to view it, and scrolled down the page past "People who viewed this item also viewed.." nearly to the bottom, in the "Description" section, top right in small font, I found the item number.

The item number for this lot is 111501390789.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Pipe Organ 2 manuals and pedals
« on: November 01, 2014, 07:18:52 AM »
Pipe Organ 2 manuals and pedals good condition available for cost of removal. Location given as Kettering.

For sale on eBay. Item No. 131329512982. Currently 99p. and no bids.

Ending 02 Nov, 2014 23:00:48 GMT.

Regarding the matter of insurance, Tony is absolutely correct. The government may not need to insure a building because at a push it could afford to rebuild it, even better than an insurer could probably in terms of funds available. But those who cannot meet, from their own resources, any great losses or claims made against them, i.e. most of us, need insurance.

Another key point about the insurance of a church, or any other building open to the public of course, is the matter of personal injury liability. It is not just the building and its contents which are covered but, very importantly, possible claims made against the owners or trustees for compensation in respect of accidental injury sustained by someone while on or using the premises.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Organ on ebay Lancashire
« on: October 02, 2014, 07:43:44 AM »
It would appear to be this one:

The building was closed in 2003 so it's a very long shot of course, but does anyone happen to know anything about it?

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Practice Organ / Piano
« on: March 11, 2014, 07:56:24 AM »
First seen posted on another forum, a two manual + pedals piano, listed as a 'practice organ.' The eBay listing expires at 17:19 today, 11th March.

The item number is 121290871951.

One of the three photos is of the pedalboard.

Miscellaneous & Suggestions / NPOR
« on: December 08, 2013, 07:23:22 AM »
I notice the NPOR has been given a new look and some updates are filtering through - excellent.

Many thanks to the hard working individuals who are taking the trouble to maintain this valuable resource.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Yet another one!
« on: October 13, 2013, 06:25:19 AM »

A big, cruciform church, ………...  I suppose it might be argued that a toaster could have two sets of speakers and therefore be used east or west of the crossing as necessary.

Mmm……  Just possibly perhaps. You are looking for a silver lining maybe? The adjective applied to the compact electronic organ seems to be regarded as an important virtue. I wonder what will occupy the space gained as a consequence?  :-\

All pure speculation of course.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Yet another one!
« on: October 12, 2013, 08:38:18 AM »
Yes - that's the one.  Thanks.  The organ itself looks just a bit scruffy round the edges if it was new in the 1970s, don't you think?

The last time I visited the church, probably some fifteen years ago, my impression was of being rather down at heel generally inside but some pictures on their website suggest it is in better shape now. Perhaps I visited at a bad time; maybe a redecoration project has been carried out since. The bombing obviously didn't help; the place was not quite flattened but almost. It was a very old church and no doubt they lost some interesting artefacts and possibly some stained glass windows as a result, although from pictures of the old church it looks as though an attempt was made to rebuild it on the original lines.

Memory is a bit hazy but that organ seems a tad on the small side for the church. With all the redundant pipe organs around nowadays it’s tempting to wonder whether, if a replacement was on the cards, something along those lines might have been achieved, but shouldn't be critical without knowing more of the facts I suppose. I know from experience that some 'transplants' can turn out to be surprisingly difficult to implement, even when everyone is in favour of the project.

Can't help wondering though whether an opportunity might have been missed.

Organs on eBay or for urgent sale / Re: Yet another one!
« on: October 11, 2013, 06:22:43 PM »
I see that the instrument in question is in Kingsbridge, but it isn't one of those listed on NPOR............

Going by the 'phone number, it is almost certain to be this one:

The church was destroyed by a bomb in WW II and, according to local history, was rebuilt using stone gathered locally. It also lost its peal of eight bells, sold for scrap; presumably to help raise funds for the rebuilding.

Picked up from 'another forum,' some interesting news regarding the above:

"The Government has announced changes to the scope and operation of the Listed Places of Worship grant scheme, which will take effect from 1 October 2013. These changes will enable more listed places of worship to claim for grants through the scheme.

From 1 October 2013, works to pipe organs, turret clocks, bells and bell ropes will be eligible for claims under the scheme. Professional services directly related to eligible building work such as architect fees will also become eligible."

This would appear to be a significant extension to the scope of the scheme and may be of interest to those with church organ projects in mind, (or indeed other projects on bells and clocks). (Note it says "Pipe organs," something to think about for those contemplating the alternative.)

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