Organ matters - Organs matter!

Quote from: dragonser on April 21, 2013, 09:24:01 AM

Hi, a couple of Pipe Organs on ebay. including one on the Isle of Wight
<http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chamber-pipe-organ-by-James-Chettle-Gomme-1794-/200915565823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ec7803cff>
Item number:
200915565823

..............................

The first one has ended. Highest of thirty bids - £1,480.

Quote from: contrabordun on April 15, 2013, 06:27:41 PM
..........

Very grateful for any help ... Google has drawn a blank for once!

thanks

PM sent.

Best,

J.

Quote from: JBR on April 15, 2013, 10:07:50 PM
I don't know why they don't use magnets to simulate tracker touch (in association with normally sprung keys).  A small magnet in each key with a steel strip directly above.

There are systems which use various devices, including magnets, to attempt to simulate tracker touch. Both the examples I'm thinking of are by German builders. As far as I recall, on their websites both appeared to be of good engineering design and high build quality but were also expensive, at least by average amateur standards. One of the makes is, or was, occasionally fitted by at least one UK builder of high quality consoles where tracker touch was requested.

There are other designs, some less expensive, others more so. When I was looking into this a few years ago a big difficulty I had was finding working examples to try out, or finding organists with experience of them who could give reliable and informed opinions. From the little I could gather at the time though, and considering the cost involved, it would seem that trying before buying would be strongly recommended; indeed essential if expensive disappointment were to be avoided.

If you care to send me a PM I will forward some web links. Typing "Tracker touch organ keyboards" into an internet search should also bring up a few references.

Quite so.

When I said "Looks quite nice" my mind had drifted on slightly. I was thinking more about the photo which I have of it, and the fact that it is only 8' x 6' 6" x 11' 4".

Momentary visions of the house reverberating to the sound real pipes maybe?  ::)

The Chapel which houses this organ is for sale:

http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N03311

Looks quite nice for anyone wanting a small instrument.

Compass 54 / 30

P 16

M 8, 8, 8, 4, 8

Quote from: diapason on December 11, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
It seems a pity that such a valuable database is so poorly resourced.  Might there be scope for designing a proforma for data entry, completed by the user, which could be approved and added to the database by the administrators without the need for re-typing the data?

N

It does seem to be under resourced and it is rather frustrating to contributors when information takes so long to be recorded. There is also the danger that in some cases events may overtake the database and amendments may already be out of date before they are entered.

On the face of it the above idea would appear to be a good one. On-line forms are used in some government organisations. Are there any experts out there who could comment on the practical difficulties?

Anyway, whatever the shortcomings, many thanks to those volunteers who give up their valuable time to maintain the system.

There were three bids on this one and it sold for £370.01. Bid history suggests the buyer deals in antiques and collectible items, with a smattering of old musical instruments thrown in.

Quote from: JBR on November 10, 2012, 09:44:22 PM
...............
How long can solar panels be expected to last before replacement is necessary?

A very good and pertinent question. Have any been around long enough to find out?

I have seen estimates of around fourteen years or perhaps more, but are these based on proven facts obtained from trials on panels over that length of time, or are they merely semi-guesses based on much shorter term tests?

Even if correct, it means that the actual in-profit life of an installation would appear to be only around five years or so. Of course that is under present conditions. If the price of electricity rises more quickly than predicted, and the prices paid to small generators increase, then everything changes.

Another point is interest rate variation. If a church has £20,000 invested, the chances are that income from it is hardly anything at the moment, but over fifteen years or so that could also change and become a matter for consideration.

Then there are the concerns regarding the relative merits or demerits of different methods of fixing the panels to the roof.......

Quite a minefield really.

Quote from: Contrabombarde on November 10, 2012, 01:56:41 PM
.......................
On the subject of church roofs, nice idea, but many churches are listed buildings. One near me was recently successful in installing panels, and because of the slope of the roof and the crenallated wall the roof and panels are virtually invisible at street level. But the amount of aggro it provoked in the local community was amusing.

Yes, an investigation into this a couple of years ago at our church concluded that the outlay would be over £20,000 and that it would take around nine years to break even. That was something we just could not contemplate, but it didn't really matter. A casual mention of it to the church architect brought the response "No chance! This is a grade two listed building."

Apparently the best situation is where there are two, or perhaps three, parallel roofs with valleys in between, which of course many churches have. The panels can then be fixed on the inner slopes where they are out of sight from the ground.

Unfortunately the NPOR has little information apart from a reasonable, though not close up, photograph. It's difficult to tell from that, but it gives the impression of being a moderately sized instrument for a relatively small building.

Any further details?

It would appear to be St. Andrew, Bexhill:

http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N15677

The auction for this organ ended yesterday at 9:30 p.m. There were five bidders who between them made seven bids, the highest being £360. The auction is now marked as "Reserve not met" so presumably the organ is still available.

Considering the current situation though, with organs being advertised as free for removal, £360 doesn't seem such a bad offer. Perhaps there are other factors not immediately apparent. For example, with eBay bids it's not possible to know what the buyer intends to do with the item.

Anyway, if nothing else, perhaps the auction may at least have attracted the attention of someone with a serious interest in the instrument.

Quote from: diapason on September 29, 2012, 12:48:45 PM
...............
- or perhaps an Anglican church will buy it on spec and apply for a faculty at leisure whilst they raise funds to restore it.  I wish I had space.........
N

Yes, that would be a nice thought, and indeed may be possible in some cases, I don't know. However, it's probably not a good idea to assume it will be that straightforward.

It's one thing to start out with the idea, take some advice, earmark a position, and then start looking for an organ to fit the space. A likely one is located and you start making serious proposals to the relevant bodies and officials.

"Oh," says one, "It can't go there because....."
"Not over there......" says another, and so on.

Eventually you end up with a completely different situation and the organ you thought would fit is now out of the question, so you have to start all over again.

Then it's not just a case of an organ which will fit the space. The instrument itself has to be approved as suitable to blend in with the rest of the building.

So, personally, for an Anglican building at least, I would be cautious about actually buying an instrument before getting at least to within clear sight of a successful conclusion to the paperwork.

Maybe others on here have had different experiences; it would be interesting to hear about them. Perhaps that discussion would be better started as another topic in a more appropriate section?

One of the difficulties with organs on eBay is that the time available for decision making is impossibly short in many cases.

In the Anglican Church, this soon becomes apparent to anyone who embarks on a scheme to obtain and install an organ. The process of consultation, planning, further consultation, further planning and eventual faculty permission can take years, not to mention the fund raising. In many ways this is a good thing because it helps to prevent some of the unwise changes, and acts of vandalism, which would otherwise undoubtedly take place. But it does rather rule out bidding in an auction lasting just a few days.

I suppose eBay may, potentially anyway, be a more prominent medium than perhaps the IBO Redundant Organs list, but the latter would seem a more logical place to advertise, and anyone seriously looking for a church organ must surely know about it?

In this case it appears as though the owners are not looking to have it removed until early next year, so that at least may help someone, but they still have to decide whether to bid before tomorrow week. I see there are two bids so far, which hopefully may be a good sign.

Quote from: Max PB on September 26, 2012, 09:11:03 PM
I'm new to this site and have had a quick(ish) look through topics over the past few days and can't find a section that best fits my own questions and my own passion for the organ in church. So I hope you will forgive me starting a new topic.

Does anyone on this site share my sheer excitement for the church organ?...........................etc.

Excellent! But it makes so much difference if those in charge of 'running' the place appreciate and are susceptible to all these things. If, however they do not, and are not, and are fixated only on dissecting words and readings, then the musical side tends to suffer. I find it remarkable how some individuals can be so engrossed in this sentence or that, or particular about using the 'correct' language, and yet so casual about choosing hymns and tunes appropriate for the occasion or season. Sometimes the choice is simply "There was a space for a hymn there, that one was in this book, and I never use hymns from the other book because it's old fashioned."

Often I think a clue lies in how they read. If their reading is in a monotone, with no sense of rhythm or metre, then the musical choices are likely to be a bit random as well. But of course that opens up a whole new can of worms! And as for taking note of the music before and after, and whether it enhances the theme or mood of the service, well, sometimes I think the organist may as well play "Three blind mice!" Obviously these remarks don't apply in every case, but it's a disease which, worryingly, seems to be spreading.

Of course words and readings form a major part of worship, but music is so important in setting the mood sometimes. I have noticed this when, occasionally, I have been in church while the organist has been practising, and again when the building has been empty.

When the building is empty, passers-by tend to come in and look around. A few may even pick up a guide and take an interest in the history. Some may even sit for a moment in quiet contemplation, but few stay for any appreciable length of time. However, when the organist is practising, the building seems to come alive. To walk in to music being played, by a real live musician, is so much more welcoming, and it's surprising how many casual visitors sit and listen.

I recently watched several different visitors, couples and a young family, come in one afternoon while the organist was practising for a forthcoming concert. They took their usual look around, and then sat quietly in a pew, clearly captivated. Most stayed quite a long time, but the prize went to the elderly couple who stayed right to the end. Before they left they told me how much they had enjoyed their visit, and gave a little clap for the organist.

That sort of thing speaks for itself. Churches are not just places of worship on Sundays. You never know who may wander in at any time just to sit for a moment, and who knows; maybe even appreciate your music!

A 1912 Wordsworth & Co. 2M + P in Cleveland needing a new home as soon as possible:

http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=G01296

It's of pleasing appearance; the sort of instrument which, provided the space were available, would look right almost anywhere.

Apparently the church has been closed for two or three years and a buyer has now been found. Completion is expected in 8 - 10 weeks.

Further details and contact information available by PM.

News just in that this fairly substantial three manual at Burley, Yorkshire, by Albert Keates, is in need of a new home:

http://npor.rcm.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=T00156

The following is quoted from the supplied information:

"This substantial organ was built by Albert Keates of Sheffield and was overhauled by J E Shippen of Leeds in 1988.
It has been regularly tuned and maintained and appears to be in fairly good condition. There is virtually no running on any of the manuals.
The church has closed and the building will shortly be sold."

Not yet listed on the IBO Redundant list, but information is available if requested.

That's good news.

To be fair to the seller, he first advertised this one over a year ago but had no takers. He is not a "Rip it out as quickly as possible merchant" either and I know for a fact that he was keen to see it go to a church.

I suppose he has now reached a point where his building project has to carry on and this is a last ditch attempt to see if anyone out there will take it. It's just very unfortunate that there are more and more redundant organs appearing every week, and only a tiny handful of places able to take them. It's a depressing problem, the root or roots of which have been discussed elsewhere on this forum.

As far as this particular instrument goes, I can only repeat that I have rather better information and pictures than shown in the advert, and would be more than happy to pass them on if it will help anyone who is interested. A PM with an e-mail address is all that is required.

Quote from: David Drinkell on August 03, 2012, 04:08:53 PM
.......

Willis used to have a rep in Mountain Ash - the firm was always well-regarded in Wales.

Now that's interesting. Above the Great stops on the right hand side of this console there is a small plastic plate with Willis' name on it, suggesting that they had some involvement with it at some time.

Actually the organ would have quite a pleasing appearance in the right situation, although it has no side panels.