Organ matters - Organs matter!

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 12, 2012, 06:10:20 PM
Hi!

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/12/world/africa/mali-shrines-destroyed/index.html

We need urgently to open religious discussion with Islam in finding the commonality of "The Construction Force" that we share from Genesis 1 in our common definition of God.

We need to find greater understanding of the common religious heritage even with former manifestations of Divine understanding. WHO WILL WORK TOGETHER IN THIS?

The library of Timbuktu is academically one of the most important in the world. It was the discovery of such an Islamic library in Teledo in 1085 which had preserved the Greek Myths that sparked the Renaissance.

Islamists appear not to understand their heritage. If spiritual rebirth is any part of Islamic philosophy then the second pyramid for a start MUST be respected as possibly a place of initiation. We need URGENTLY to find ways of investigating the ways in which religions find accord so that then all forms of worship can be respected.



Islamists who tried to destroy the heritage of The Parthenon in Athens simply did not understand the symbolism of the Frieze which they would find accorded with their teachings if only they investigated as to how . . .

http://www.rt.com/news/egypt-destroy-pyramids-islamists-007/ explains the reasons for the Timbuktu destruction

Best wishes

David P

===================


Dear David,

It is easy to blame specific religions, cults or tribes for acts of wanton vandalism, destruction or violence, but perhaps we should not be surprised.

In my own lifetime I have witnessed the destruction of so many beautiful churches and chapels; no doubt spawning a fair number of minor saints in their day. Whatever the achievements of the Victorians, they were among the most destructive people in British history; wiping out a great deal of cultural heritage in the rush to expand cities, dig canals and lay down railways.

As "Conbtrebombarde" pointed out, the Puritans were even worse. They destroyed priceless stained-glass, defaced carvings, burned organs and generally wrought havoc on religious art and catholic practices; all in the name of "true faith", but actually under the political command of  Cromwell and his supporters. This is precisely how a dominant, war-mongering political movement establishes its power-base, using a combination of false promises, heightening expectations and decrying the beliefs and practices of those in power. There is an old truth, that revolution by the people only ensures one thing; the replacement of one set of rulers by another. Anything lasting or meaningful is a bonus.

Go back further still, and we had the appalling destruction of the monasteries. Every time I walk among the ruins of Fountains, Riveaulx,  Whitby or Kirkstall, I wonder just how beautiful they must have been when they were complete. Of course, Henry VIII only plundered the wealth and closed them down, but it was greedy, self-seeking commoners who plundered the lead from the roofs, used the masonry and timber  to build houses (e.g.: Fountains Hall) and allowed water, ice and wind to do the rest. Our loss, in our small island, is far greater than anything spawned by the Taliban; the Timbuktu debacle similar to the destruction of the Buddhist shrines in Afghanistan.

You cannot have meaningful dialogue with desperate people, or with those politically motivated. In the Yemen to-day, there are a quarter of a million children starving to death. In parts of Africa, in spite of great mineral wealth and oil wealth, there is unbelievable hardship and privation.

Should we be surprised that they turn to religion for salvation?

Should we be surprised that when religion fails to deliver, the religion becomes ever more extreme?

One only has to look at Afghanistan to appreciate the disparities between the promise of "freedom and democracy" and the reality of drug-barons who provide some degree of benevolent income based on a fiercely tribal and separatist agenda. (The same is true in Columbia and Mexico).

The bottom line is, that extreme religion, and criminal war lords, often work in a symbiotic manner; especially in the Islamic world.

Basically, without massive aid or huge inward investment, these regions will remain poor, unstable and potentially violent, and frankly, I cannot see that changing. Managing the situation is the best hope, but even that is a long shot, as the Russians know only too well. Whether we like it or not, perhaps the ONLY way forward is to recognise that fanaticism is a kind of tribal political statement....sabre rattling.....but of little significance to us most of the time. It is only acts of vandalism and terrorism which makes us raise an eyebrow from time to time. For the most part, we ignore it because it doesn't affect us directly.

The reality is, that even in a region such as Central Asia, the tribal system is the dominant one.  The word "stan" means "land of," and within quite a limited area, there are numerous "stans" inhabited by the Uzbeks, the Paks, the Tajikis, Afghans, Turkmens, Krigs (etc etc)....there are seven or eight "stans," many of which are nominally a part of the Russian Federation, yet all with their own distinct cultures and tribal ways. You invade these people at your own peril, because they are tough mountain-people and herdsmen, who know all the hiding places in the vast mountain regions, and who are quite capable of taking on the might of the former Red Army.

The only thing which unites these peoples, is Islam, which remains their principal means of communication and co-existence, and as a recent heated debate with a few young Muslims showed me a few weeks ago, knowing a little something about Islam enabled me to find common ground and discuss differences in a quite civilised and amiable manner. Actually, what I learned, was the striking similarities between Islam and traditional Cjristian religion, but of course, the differences were, and remain, a considerable barrier.

Perhaps we could learn from history, and understand that old Islam during the very real "Golden Age", enabled people of many faiths to interact and trade with each other in a generally civilised manner over many centuries.

MM

Quote from: Contrabombarde on July 12, 2012, 08:35:22 PM
Perhaps a good starting point to understand the Islamicists' fanatism would be to try to get inside the heads of the the Roundheads whose Puritan cultural vandalism in the mid-17th century swept through England's churches, destroying centuries of history including many organs, windows, statues to saints. Plus a fanatical belief that "my interpretation of the Qur'an is the only possible interpretation and it is my religious duty to kill anyone who disagrees with me because they and their ideas are evidently a stain on Allah's world so must be eradicated". The only world the Islamicists invading northern Mali (or the Taliban for that matter) consider worth living in is the world of 7th century Arabia during the life of Mohammed, a so-called "golden age of Islam". Everything must be lived according to how things worked in the 7th century.

Unfortunately modern archeological and historical scholarship has blown wide open the central claims of the historicity of this period, meaning that the golden age these people dream of recreating never actually existed in the first place.

I regret to suggest, taking this reply at face value, that it is the most ill-considered, absurd and prejudiced response I have ever read, but peace be with us and to the prophet as we seek a little enlightenment.

Let's start with a few facts concerning "the golden age of Islam," which was by no means restricted to 8th century Arabia, but in fact covers a period from around 750AD to maybe the 11th century AD, with considerable achievements right up to the 18th century.

Islam has as its roots the historic beliefs of ancient Judaism, and the Quran was the first religious document written in one hand, which sought to codify and present, (in the most beautiful, poetic language), all that was good and decent; notwithstanding the limitations in the sum of human knowledge in the 8th Century. Although I cannot verify or bring to mind the considerable amount of detail, Islam was born at a time when the trade routes crossed and re-crossed an area of the Islamic world we know as Syria and Damascus. Those trade routes exchanged learning and ideas from several continents....Europe, Arabia, India, China and Central Asia. I forget the exact reason why, but the Islamic world was pushed east, and then centred upon Baghdad, with Mecca still the focal point of believers.

In a previous post, I mentioned to David the remarkable philosopher and scholar Al-Kindi, who would have been a "Renaissance Man", were it not for his dates. He lived at a time when the Islamic culture was open to the most profound thinking in art, science, religion and philosophy, both from the ancient world and the contemporary, cosmopolitan world of Damascus and Baghdad. This was the age of the "translators," when scholars in all disciplines sought to improve their knowledge from as many sources as they could lay hands on. It was possible because of one very simple invention.....paper!  Prior to that velum was rare and expensive, and the old papyrus process slow. By inventing machinery which made paper production quick and relatively cheap, the scholars were able to translate all the great works from other cultures, and assemble them in great libraries.

If you had an enquiring mind in the 10th-12th centuries, your hope of finding great libraries in the Christian world would have been dashed. Were you a scholar in Baghdad, Damascus or even Granada in what was Moorish Spain, you would have found books on art, calligraphy, optometry, medicine, philosophy and dozens of other subjects. In Granada, you would have walked among spectacular architecture, (still to be seen in the Alhambra Palace, Granada, as well as the great Mosque of Cordoba, since converted into a cathedral). You would have walked on pavements, you would have been taught to read, write, understand mathematics (among other things), and you would have had free medical and hospital care. The streets were even lit by oil lamps at night. Meanwhile, the 12th century Christians in the rest of Europe would have gone to their wattle and daub houses, along muddy paths strewn with straw and excrement, and they would be completely illiterate as well as superstitious.

Whatever your prejudices, early Islam was peaceful, considerate, tolerant and dynamic, and like all great faiths could share points of disagreement as well as agreement, simply because it had yet to be corrupted by the quest for power and the stain of political-Islam.
Before we cast stones, perhaps we should recall the bloodshed instigated by the Christians. As for the "believe or else" approach,  the arch exponents of that particular political craft were the Emperor Charlemagne, those who instigated the inquisition or sacked the highly civilised Moors from Spain as well as people like Henry VIII.

The peaceful, tolerant Islam is still there, but fundamentalism is the strident voice we hear, as well as the acts of the Taliban. Unfortunately, the language of the Quran is not properly understood to-day: even less understood than our reading of Shakespearian language in the Bible. As with all historic and ancient things, all that remains of great thoughts are the words passed on, and as language changes, the original meanings can easily be lost or corrupted, as well as used to political advantage.

I think we should try and be balanced and just, as far as possible, and not every Christian wants to "kill a queer for Christ" like Anita Bryant, or put Jews in concentration camps because "people like them killed Jesus." (Yes, I know it was the Romans....but that's pragmatism for you!)
I'm sorry if I come across as judgemental, but I think it is very important to establish the facts, (at least some of them), before committing our prejudices to paper or splashing them around on the internet.

MM

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 05, 2012, 09:05:56 PM
Hi!

Recently a friend wrote to me and thanked me for changing her destiny.  . . . I responded in the following terms which I hope may be useful to others and accord also with what many beleive and know . . .

Best wishes

David P

I am asking you to make a quantum leap, as it will change your life for the better even more.

There is a problem with the conventional view of theology: to many, God is a Big Daddy who looks after them - and gives them destiny, fortune, luck and the personal love of Big Daddy. This relationship may not be the whole picture. It works in so far as it appears to work . . . but the bigger picture is even more amazing.

But if you look at the idea of God as the idea of the Construction Force, the Construction Force has to happen through its agents. It's in this way that Jesus said "Who are my mother and my brothers?" - "Those who hear my Father's words (Construction Force) and do it". So Jesus is asking us to do the work of the Construction Force. If we do that, then the Construction Force loves us - and constructs and constructs in our lives.

It's more potent than passively waiting for the results and fruits of the Love of God to happen for us . . . It's the joy of escaping from the Garden of Eden and then growing our own crops - mental (celebral) crops of the Construction Force in our minds.

There are people who come to mind who appear to do this quite naturally, operating in the mode of growing the crops of the Construction Force, being the agent of its implementation.

Why am I telling you this? Recently you have been significantly hurt and are nursing your wounds. You have been a victim. But the passive expectation that the love of God will make it better may not be the whole answer and can lead to disappointment. It is in the idea of the passive reception of Destiny, either from the fruits of the Love of God or as a victim of the cruelty of animal man.

Becoming the Agent of the Construction Force puts construction in your own hands, and ensures that Construction will come to greet you.

Sorry - I am the serpent in the Garden of Eden tempting you to eat of the Tree of Knowledge - and in doing so we become awake, fully conscious and fully human.

There are some people who do not understand: their nature tends towards being always to take, and not to give, and to be oppressive with others, bullying their way to force others to do things to their benefit, oppressing them. Suspecting this in dealing with such a person, in business one can test them, offering the most generous terms possible - and seeing then if they will still want to take more . . .  requiring one to do even more for their benefit. Because people who always want to take do not understand how to build they are as though being given a rope to connect across a valley they do not understand that they have to throw the rope out to the person on the other side for them to take and to receive another rope back across to provide stability for a bridge to be made. So whatever they try to build will collapse: their destiny is predictable.

When one wanders around the sea of circumstances randomly one is at the mercy of the waves. But waves of circumstances formed by the Force of Construction build and travel, whilst waves of random unconstruction collapse and disappear because the directions of decisions of which they are made are random rather than connecting consciously with any other decisions in the directions of constructions. This means that if one obeys the laws of behaviour of the Force of Construction, then one can safely follow the paths given by the connections made by the force of construction and the resulting wave carries one forward like a surfer or a glider pilot following the air currents into the upper layers of the atmosphere whilst those who don't follow the law of the Force of Construction are left to not believe it possible to glide through clouds so they stay on the ground and not take off, or not understanding how to handle the currents of air, to have to land early.

So faith carries you forwards and upwards and you can rely on that. It results from an active conscious choice to follow the Way of the Force of Construction. This happens when you meet others who Understand. Destiny is merely what happens as a result, and it can be perceived passively and in that sense may be only illusory.

To beleive in Faith therefore is to create, and so more potent than to beleive in Destiny.

Dear David,


I find myself in agreement with much of this, though I did initially struggle with it a bit.


No matter what the source of hurt or anguish, perhaps the worst thing of all is simply to feel sorry for ourselves; something which can lead to a sort of impotent bitterness....the  syndrome which only leads to the question, "Why me? Why this or that? "


I know that when young Joe died of a drugs overdose, (the boy I had spent so much time nurturing, educating and protecting), the immediate reaction was a sense of injustice, loss, and hurt, but above all, the feeling that everything in which I believed had suddenly died. I'm quite sure that this is a very normal reaction, and of course, it is a part of the grieving process; especially when someone has been suddenly snatched away by circumstances, accidents or untimely terminal illness.


My salvation came in the form of someone who didn't feel sorry for me, but actually shouted at me!


"Get over it! He died because he didn't listen to the warnings! He was just another daft lad who thought he was invincible!"


That was the brutal truth, and yet I had been blaming anyone and anything for his death, including God I suppose.  After accepting that his death was not remotely unique or a part of fate and destiny, and that it was really just a part of life, (the way it is or can be), then it was possible to move on. Joe gave me a great story to write and some wonderful memories, but there were many others like him who needed a constructive and creative influence in their lives. Having emerged much stronger, I'd like to think that I've had the privilege of shaping, guiding and protecting a few young people from their own chaotic existences and lack of positive, creative influences; knowing full well that, although no one person can ever enjoy total success, there is every reason to try and to keep on trying. What's more, it doesn't matter if the creative input is small or large....we can only ever be bit-part players on the stage of life, and sowing seeds is just as important as gathering harvests.


Easily the most beautiful human being I ever knew, was a senior male nurse who worked at Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital. He would come around sometimes after the end of his shift; totally destroyed emotionally when children he had cared for and loved had died. Each and every time, I would hand him a copy of the Quran and he would pray; his resolve and compassion never once dented by the regular tragedies in his work with extremely sick children. In fact, I've never known anyone who could get so involved emotionally, yet still retain total professionalism; accepting each and every day as part of his calling as a quite devout and very gentle Muslim.


One of the most profound things he ever said, when I questioned his emotional involvement, was, "Is it better that I, as an adult, share the pain and suffer loss, or is it better that very sick children suffer or die alone, without a hand to hold?"


Best.

MM

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 03, 2012, 09:09:56 PM

Quote from: MusingMuso on July 03, 2012, 11:09:15 AM
I'd have thought they'd avoid anything which rumbled in New Zealand.

Dear MM

I'm not at all sure about your sense of humour on this occasion. . . . Hope our Antipodean friends will understand antagonist humour.

Best wishes

David P

Fuirther to my graveyard humour concerning earthquakes and organs, I've taken the liberty of re-posting this from the Mander Discussion Board.

This is an organ and an earthquake recorded simultaneously.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/8035480-post1.html

This one was only 7 on the Richter scale!   It's horrible!

Best,

MM

A continuation from http://www.organmatters.com/index.php/topic,1427.msg6833.html#msg6833 worthy of a new thread of its own:

MM wrote:

Quoteas early as the 9th century, the Islamic scholar Al Kindi was proposing the theology of Aristotle, in which God was not a "being" but a "creative force." In fact,his religious philosophy was at odds with creationism, and brought him into conflict with Christians as well as Muslims...not that it ever got terribly nasty or violent, even though his library was temporarily confiscated at one point.The real danger is fundamentalist belief of whatever faith: the attempt to order all things within the confines of narrow, unchanging faith. Christians have been just as guilty over the centuries, and quite recently, in Northern Ireland. Fundamentalism is usually connected with the politics of nationalism.

Dear David,

Just as a slight teaser, it's interesting to note that even before the first millenium, Islamic scholars realised that the universe existed, but mainstream Islam insisted that it was created by "a being" in what we would call the creationist process. Where Al Kindl and others diversified, was in their understanding of a universe which had always existed, to all intents and purposes, and placed them at odds with those who saw God as big daddy; both in the Christian and the Islamic faiths.

It's absolutely fascinating to think that astronomy was quite advanced in the Islamic world long before it got going in Europe and the west, and the organ, as a musical instrument, didn't go into Christian places of worship when the Roman Empire collapsed. Instead, it went east, and I believe turned up in the home of the Emperor Suleman (Sp?)  The books and libraries of the Moors in Spain were also far in advance of anything in the Christian part of Spain, and there is no doubt but that the greatest religious philosophy, science and academic pursuits (including medicine and chemistry) were in the east; especially in and around Baghdad and Damascus, long before the Christian world developed fully. I do know that in Granada during the rule of the Moors, there were pavements, street lamps, hospitals and free education for all....utterly remarkable, and the evidence of a great civilisation is still there for us to see to this day.

Prior to Galileo and Copernicus, and I think Ptolomy, the western scholars thought the earth flat and the centre of the universe, while theologians explained the stars as holes through which God observed earth from heaven; situated just above the dome which covered the earth.

How things and fortunes change!

Best,

MM

Quote from: David Pinnegar on June 28, 2012, 11:52:23 AM
Hi!

A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses arrived on the doorstep today and posted a leaflet through the door. Seeing them beat a fast retreat I hailed them, asking what the leaflet was all about.

"A convention about God" - come.

So I asked "what" God was. "Who" replied the man. I referred to "Our Father _which_ art . . . " and told them that this was the trouble, not the Big Daddy who told Muslims to kill Infidels . . . and explained Genesis 1 being about that force that causes all matter to be brought together in the most productive ways . . . about Construction Force and Unconstruction in which matter is separated. The woman, who was itching 5 paces in front of the man said something about "That's the Separation that Christ said would happen" . . . . to which I replied that it was important to try to bring people together, instead, and find ways of dissolving differences.

And that's the point about this post. Prophecy . . . Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it happen - must it happen? Can the future be altered? Do we have a responsibility both as humans and as those who act out God's intentions to do something different and cause prophecy not to come about? Should we accept fate, destiny in passive acceptance or should we forge through, despite the weeds that want to choke our crops, in actively growing the crop of faith in faith?

On another thread entitled directly about Fate, Destiny and Faith I might pursue this aspect further.

In discussion, specifically with Jehovah's Witnesses however, I find inflexibilities, people who want blindly to accept what they are told irrespective of their intellect, who do not wish to think, let alone think for themselves.

Am I being unkind to to Jehovah's Witnesses? No doubt to the two this morning I was the serpent in the Garden of Eden . . .

Best wishes

David P

Dear David,

Having re-read your previous post, I realised that you may have done an injustice to the wider scholarship of Islam.

Surely, there are primitive believers who would kill or at least shun infidels; especially if they invaded or occupied their lands, but even as early as the 9th century, the Islamic scholar Al Kindi was proposing the theology of Aristotle, in which God was not a "being" but a "creative force." In fact,his religious philosophy was at odds with creationism, and brought him into conflict with Christians as well as Muslims...not that it ever got terribly nasty or violent, even though his library was temporarily confiscated at one point.

The real danger is fundamentalist belief of whatever faith: the attempt to order all things within the confines of narrow, unchanging faith. Christians have been just as guilty over the centuries, and quite recently, in Northern Ireland. Fundamentalism is usually connected with the politics of nationalism.

I make no special point, but I think we always need to appreciate that all religions are nuanced, and far from straightforward.

Best,

MM

Quote from: MusingMuso on July 03, 2012, 09:55:50 PM

Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 03, 2012, 09:09:56 PM

I'm not at all sure about your sense of humour on this occasion. . . . Hope our Antipodean friends will understand antagonist humour.

Dear David,

It isn't antagonist humour. Perhaps more graveyard humour with a hint of irony....think "Adam's Family Values."

I think that the people I know in New Zealand would appreciate the joke, even if it made them wince a bit.

The bridge thing is quite amusing to me personally, because they had a notice erected at Devil's Bridge, Kirby Lonsdale, from which generations of boys and youths have hurled themselves over the centuries. (It's about 50 or 60ft down to the river below).

Anyway, the notice curiously read:-

BYELAW (date)

It is an offence to jump from this broidge without good cause.

A group of disappointed boys asked me what a "good cause" was, to which I replied, "a swarm of bees."

Try prosecuting that one in court!

They all spent the rest of the afternoon hurling themselves into the river below;their friends making loud buzzing noises as they dived or jumped.

Don't you just love law?   :D

Best,

MM
[/quote]

Quote from: David Wyld on July 03, 2012, 10:07:30 AM
Our new instrument at St. Mathew-in-the-City in Auckland (New Zealand) has a manual 32ft - see the spec in the lowest section of the page at     http://www.willis-organs.com/auckland_general.html

It is much used!
David Wyld.

=====================


How very strange!

I'd have thought they'd avoid anything which rumbled in New Zealand.

It's like installing a wind machine on an organ in Colorado, or a cinema-organ type surf effect on a Japanese instrument.

MM

I don't know a lot about loudspeaker design, but I do know that some of the old vintage units are awfully good.

I personally cherish my old Celestion Studio 66 Monitors, which are still in daily use and sound terrific. Very big and bulky, (not to mention heavy), I've not come across many speakers that compare, and with the added advantage that they're just the right height for reading-lamps or vases of flowers; being about 3ft high.

I don't think I ever heard a Lowther Acoustics speaker in the old days, but I did used to admire the old KEF units, with their folded horn construction.

Sounds like an interesting revival of a good old design....good luck with it.

MM

Hello,

Certain things are set to try us, aren't they?

There's that tricky moment at the end of the D major P & F by Bach, when bottom D is often played as bottom C, resulting in a compositional, improvised circle of fifths to get back to the same place. Woe betides the organist who manages to play a second bottom C... or a third..... or a fourth.

At Mass this morning, one of the servers strolled across to have a word while I was playing a highly improbable Boellman Toccata; improbable because the baroque organ ay which I preside has about as much affinity to the music of France as Yorkshire Puddings have to Crepe Soufflees au citron vert. 

Still, we have a Terzchor and a Pedal reed.

The aforementioned server carelessly propped himself up on the organ-bench while addressing my left ear, and in the process, managed to dislodge the hymn-book, which fell onto the pedalboard.

I feel sure that Leon Boellman would have drawn a veil over the odd indiscretion; including the strange pedal tone clusters around middle C, but my problem, (apart from the original location of the hymn-book), was further compounded by the server grovelling around at ground level, trying to grab at the hymn-book. The fact that the only way of doing this is to lean over the organ-bench; first to my left and then to my right, must have made an interesting spectacle and even raised a few questions about the nature of our relationship.  However, each time he grabbed, I would play a tone-cluster and kick the book somewhere else, and he would scrabble around like rat after a piece of cheese. The end result was utter musical mayhem, and with the benefit of hindsight, it may have been better to stop.

My regular and loyal admirers grimaced and left without comment, obviously unaware of my predicament. I fear that restoring any sort of credibility will require a special effort next week. In the meantime, I've banished the server from the organ-console.

Best,

MM

Quote from: Barrie Davis on June 29, 2012, 06:33:11 PM
Hi

After looking at spec leaflets from H&H most of their 32's started from tenor C so was this the norm? I cannot find the Willis brochure about Liverpool so do not know if this was the case there.

Barrie

So far as I know, the 32ft at Liverpool is a full compass Violone, and goes right to the bottom note. Indeed, the Pedal stop-list says, Violone 32ft "From Great." The pipes are visible in the West facing cases.

I don't think I'ver ever heard a 32ft Violone which purrs like the Liverpool one. It sounds like a pampered Cheetah.  (I've walked one on a lead and stroked it...I know about these things).   :)

Best,

MM

Quote from: David Drinkell on June 29, 2012, 08:04:01 AM

Quote from: Holditch on June 28, 2012, 06:39:26 PM
Having purchased "The Emperor's Fanfare" and listened to Carlo Curley's performance on the Girard College Organ in Pennsylvania it made me think how many other instruments in the world have a 32ft stop available on the manuals?

British examples include the Royal Albert Hall, Liverpool Anglican Cathedral, Newcastle Cathedral, Ely Cathedral and Melton Mowbray Parish Church.  The Ely example was disconnected at the 1975 rebuild but reappeared in 2001.  Peterborough used to have one, but it disappeared at the last rebuild (I thought it was a shame to lose the enormous spread of 32, three 16s, Phonon, 3 Opens, two flutes and Dulciana).

I've often wondered why there aren't more 32' reeds in very big Swells.

32' pitch on the manuals is more useful than might at first appear.  A lot of French symphonic music presupposes a Cavaille-Coll organ witrh a sub coupler on the Grand, so gravity is an essential part of the concept.

Hello,

Don't forget the Schulze at Doncaster PC, which although a tenor C register, was probably the earliest example.

Best

MM

Quote from: David Pinnegar on June 28, 2012, 11:52:23 AM
Hi!

A pair of Jehovah's Witnesses arrived on the doorstep today and posted a leaflet through the door. Seeing them beat a fast retreat I hailed them, asking what the leaflet was all about.

"A convention about God" - come.

So I asked "what" God was. "Who" replied the man. I referred to "Our Father _which_ art . . . " and told them that this was the trouble, not the Big Daddy who told Muslims to kill Infidels . . . and explained Genesis 1 being about that force that causes all matter to be brought together in the most productive ways . . . about Construction Force and Unconstruction in which matter is separated. The woman, who was itching 5 paces in front of the man said something about "That's the Separation that Christ said would happen" . . . . to which I replied that it was important to try to bring people together, instead, and find ways of dissolving differences.

And that's the point about this post. Prophecy . . . Is it true? Is it necessary? Does it happen - must it happen? Can the future be altered? Do we have a responsibility both as humans and as those who act out God's intentions to do something different and cause prophecy not to come about? Should we accept fate, destiny in passive acceptance or should we forge through, despite the weeds that want to choke our crops, in actively growing the crop of faith in faith?

On another thread entitled directly about Fate, Destiny and Faith I might pursue this aspect further.

In discussion, specifically with Jehovah's Witnesses however, I find inflexibilities, people who want blindly to accept what they are told irrespective of their intellect, who do not wish to think, let alone think for themselves.

Am I being unkind to to Jehovah's Witnesses? No doubt to the two this morning I was the serpent in the Garden of Eden . . .

Best wishes

David P

Dear David,


I once knew a very colourful character who came from a very large family; all crammed into a modest council house on a dreadful estate. At any one time, there were children being washed, bathed, dressed, fed and watered....an everlasting amalgam of baptism and communion. Easily the most chaotic and dysfunctional family I've ever encountered, they all lived in a fantasy world.

This remarkable...nay...unique household, included a grandmother who believed in witchcraft, a father who believed in cannabis, a mother who couldn't believe what had happened to her and an eldest son who, having almost been drowned at a Wicken baptism, was like a teenage version of Count Dracula, complete with cape, a certain hostility towards crosses and other Christian symbols, a natural affinity to dark places and a bedroom the size of the average petite baronial coffin.

Odd was not the word...neither was funny, peculiar, oddball or crazy. Unique....that was the only description possible, yet the junior Dracula probably had the most beautiful handwriting I've ever come across. He had a wonderful way of dealing with the Jehova's Witnesses, for as they approached with their little black-books and knocked, he would pluck one of his naked sisters from the bath, put on his black cape and go to answer the door.

"We're from the Jehova's Witnesses; could we interest you in our pamphlet?"

His eyes would narrow, and then with a spine-tingling hiss, he would look at his naked little sister, and say, "Get back on that altar!"
This had the twin effect of both eliminating the Witnesses and traumatising them, and it never failed.

The Mormons got a better deal, but only because he fancied them.

Apparently, when the young Mormon told him that they sometimes helped people in financial difficulties, he replied, "Do I have to sign anything?"

The world is full of crazy people, and it's been a bit of a privilege to know a few of them. They certainly add colour to an often drab world, and IMHO, it doesn't get any drabber than the Jehova's Witnesses.

It's a poor do when a man can't enjoy a pint of blood in his own front-room.
Best,

MM

PS: Thought for the day:-  "The greatest threats to the world are order and disorder."

Quote from: Holditch on June 27, 2012, 08:26:48 PM
Brannagans Bar has now closed and the building (Albert Hall) is now as I understand it completely vacant.

I have walked past the place on many occasions and wondered about the fate of the organ. The building is of architectural importance and has many wonderful features. I just hope the next incumbent uses the building including the organ as it would make a great live music venue and it comes with a significant organ

========================


It's a very sad situation, because without realising it, Manchester has lost so many very significant venues and organs over the years; not least the Wurlitzer organs of great historical significance, associated with a number of very fine players. I don't think the Town Hall organ is used much these dyas, if at all, and even the cathedral organ seems to be much despised by some.

Apart from the organ in the Bridgewater Hall, and perhaps the RNCM, Manchester seems to have fallen off the organ perch it once occupied.

This in what is probably the third or fourth largest city in England.

MM

In Manchester, there are two retained organs in converted buildings; namely the large Wadsworth / R&D instrument in what was formerly the Albert Hall; the ground floor of which is now Brannagans Bar. The chapel area and organ are off-limits, but at least it survives in all its splendour unused and now unloved. Perhaps this is just a temporary reprieve for what was a fine hall and significant organ.

The other, is that to be found in the Groucho Restaurant, where the organ has been retained in its entirety.

We even have nice piccies to look at:-


http://www.viewmanchester.co.uk/restaurants/gaucho-gallery-30702.html


http://www.goneeightyfive.com/2011/07/albert-hall-manchester.html

For me, one of the great mistakes was that possibly made, (I use these words with caution, because I may not know all the facts), by the Lancaster Theatre Organ Trust, when there was the opportunity to install a large Wurlitzer organ in the Trafford Centre Retail Mall, They declined this opportunity, and rather sadly, ended up losing the organ altogether; having to sell it after failing to find an alternative home.

How sad that the theatre organ enthusiasts of Manchester now have to travel to Stockport, following the removal of the big Wurlitzer from the Granada Studios Complex and the refurbishment of the former Free Trade Hall. (The latter is the one now in Stockport Town Hall).

MM

Sometimes....just sometimes....something rocks us on our heels, irrespective of genre, and this is one of those rare moments.

I know next to nothing about "pop" music in Russia and China, yet I stumbled across something and someone so remarkable on YouTube, I felt I had to share this discovery.

By way of background to this extraordinary discovery, I often trawl around YouTube listening to past classics from the likes of The King's Singers, Ella Fitzgerald, Fred Astaire, the BeeGees etc etc.

As someone who enjoys listening to choral music and good vocalists, I came across a young man from Russia, who not only has an agreeable voice, but THE most extraordinary falsetto I have ever come across. Not only that, he controls that falsetto with an absolutely flawless technique and a real sense of style. Equally extraordinary, is the fact that I had never heard of him, simply because he represents a "pop" world which never travels outside Russia, unless it travels into China.

"Vitas" is the stage name of this remarkable young man, and he is apparently something of a superstar in his native Russia and also in China.


I shall say no more, but ask those who may be interested to listen to this phenomenon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HQh29nQcvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZl4CdDE3Is&feature=related


MM

Dear David,


Although I knew that the number 42 had real significance rather than just a humorous association with a sci-fi novel, I had to look it up myself, so I'm afraid I cannot claim that I was doing anything more than quoting others. However, the improbable absurdity of the irony is probably funnier than the comedy, coming to think about it.


Although I respect the rationale that consciousness is that which brings understanding of how systems work, there is also the possibility of knowledge being wrong, such as that which led to the horrors associated with DDT or Thalidomide. Science, like all systems, is seldom perfect, (being an evolving entity), and it is for this reason that the random processes of natural selection, (with unlimited time and mathematical permutations), is usually the more reliable method by which the path of evolution succeeds and other methods fail. It is, I suppose, the difference between natural selection and unnatural selection, and what emerges from a study of the former, is the way in which randomness may be perceived as part of a creative and seemingly ordered path, when it is really nothing of the sort. I find myself coming back to the words of the song, "That's life; it's just the way it is."


My problem David, is that I know next to nothing about biology, life sciences and even gardening; my perfect garden being astro-turf and plastic flowers. I can just about manage a couple of window boxes and a solitary potted rose, for which I require little more than a sharp kitchen knife, a pair of scissors, a small bottle of tomato-feed and an old table-fork. Were I to venture into the field of genetically modified plants, they would probably emerge like the man-eating plant in "The little shop of horrors."


Of course, the formation and use of language is that which separates us from the animal kingdom; though we should be aware of quite a large repertoire of inherited and learned vocal and sensory exchanges and responses in the animal kingdom. Abstract thought and leaps of imagination are certainly, I think, the sole preserve of the human race, while sophisticated systems of language not only define human beings, they permit the flow of information and the transcendent continuum of knowledge within specific flows of disciplines and structured learning; viz a viz, "education."  If language has a problem, it is that of not only defining race and culture, but that of also preventing dialogue and co-operation between those of different languages and cultures, which we see as racism, tribal behaviour and culture.


I think I would have to add other forms of communication such as the visual arts, poetry, creative writing and, of course, music; some of which do not rely on words, but nevertheless have a recognisable, cultural structure and a language all their own.



Best ,

MM

Dear David,

The answer to life, the universe and everything is 42; not 47.

It is quite miraculous, (if not a little spooky), that when Douglas Adams wrote "The hitchhiker's guide to the universe," he wrote that the computer programmed to calculate the meaning of everything and which took 7.5 million years to complete the task, came back with the answer 42...a number plucked from obscurity if not infinity.

In fact, 42 happens to be, (either by amazing co-incidence or divine intervention), the figure which correlates precisely to the "Hubble Constant," which measures the rate of expansion of the universe, and from which the age of the universe can be calculated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIy76M-4txo&feature=related


Could it be that the creative force of art is superior to that of religion?

Best,

MM


PS: I believe that the "word "used in Genesis correlates to the word "logos".....in other words, "meaning" or perhaps "purpose."

PPS:  Don't be too hard on Victorian clergymen. There were some who struggled to gain greater enlightenment, and the Unitarian Church is especially interesting; spawning the likes of Joseph Pristley.

Dear David,

At the personal level, I'm inclined to agree with almost everything you say, but at an intellectual level, certain things do not quite add up for me.

People are very different, and of course, people also act differently as they mature emotionally. Then again, some people never quite mature to the extent that they are unable to commit themselves to anything other than fleeting encounters with others.

That is neither a gay nor a straight thing, though due to the way men and women, and people of the same sex interrelate, I suspect that there is greater pressure on heterosexual pairings to be more committed at the outset, or at least explore the possibility of an extended liaison to see where it may lead.

However, as someone who has enjoyed lengthy relationships; (the longest about 8 years and the next longest 7 years), I'm not quite sure why some people do not do relationships at all. It leads me to believe that casual encounters are a source of comfort and pleasure to the participants, but one which is based on the mutual adoration of beauty or the fulfilment of fantasies. It may be shallow and it may not be of lasting benefit, but I've known a lot of people in the gay world who want nothing more. Perhaps such encounters are mutually selfish or at perhaps self-obsessed, but I've known many men who marry their jobs and careers, and for whom sexual encounters are nothing more than recreational pleasure, like a game of tennis.

What I do not see are people who are lonely or confused because of it. Instead, I see people who dip a toe in the emotional waters, and then move on. For many, this seems to work well, and allows them to be the masters of their own destinies and circumstances. Some are real high-flyers...often obsessive, highly motivated go-getters, in which challenge and conquest seem to be their principal aims in life.

It gets worse!  I recall an absurd conversation with an academic working in the field of psychiatry. Although I wasn't in the slightest bit interested, he insisted on giving me a detailed and rather colourful lecture on the joys of sado-masochism. As I couldn't escape the social situation, I had little option but to listen patiently; desperately trying to control an urge to burst out laughing. It was a rather dull and intellectual critique of the works of the Marquis de Sade, and I was neither wiser nor better informed when he finally, (mercifully), moved onto his next listener.

You see, I know that there are whole spectra of sexual behaviour which perplex me. I not only don't understand them, I don't want to understand them, and for that reason, I really don't feel in a position to make any judgements one way or the other.

What I do know, is that boys and girls are very different....the old Venus and Mars syndrome. Girls want to be loved and admired, and I'm afraid boys just want sex. In all probability, boys with boys and girls with girls may well be the same; the girls naturally gravitating towards relationships, and the boys just being boys.

Perhaps marriage of any kind is now the exception rather than the rule, and it is for this reason that I respect it, being the monogamous type myself.

I think we should also be aware of national differences in outlook: the cautious and thinking people of the Netherlands, (who nevertheless tolerate the cess-pit of Amsterdam's night-life), and only a couple of countries away, the largely atheist people of the Czech Republic, who just do what comes naturally from the age of 15, without the slightest qualms about Christian morality and quite unhindered by taboos or law.

So in this respect, sexual activity is partly defined by national culture, and there are many Americans who would find European attitudes quite offensive, and Eastern European/Russian attitudes almost satanical.

It's nothing of not complex, and that's why I refrain from judgement; not least because my first relationship lasted 7 years and began when I was 14. If I were to tell the age of my then partner, (who died in a car accident when I was 21), you would probably shuffle uncomfortably, but I would defend it to my last breath as being wholesome, beautiful and a relationship which totally sorted me out at a very young age.

With all respect, I think David, that you display a degree of prejudice, (as we all do), because you have based your response on your own beliefs rather than on evidence; which is not to say that it doesn't contain truth or common sense.

I merely counter with the idea that human sexuality is very complicated, and not always entirely logical or creative. Indeed, it can be extremely corrosive and destructive, as many a divorce lawyer will tell you.

Best,

MM

Dear David,

I forgot to address the legal issues surrounding marriage, which gay marriage would rectify when one partner dies suddenly or where there are matters of unresolved estate etc.  That is probably the biggest benefit, and one which makes fair a currently unfair situation.

Having got that out of the way, I wish you hadn't linked gay marriage to the alternative of promiscuity. From what I learn from teenagers and those who work closely with teenagers, I'm inclined to believe that both sexes are equally promiscuous, whatever sexuality may be involved. I suspect that the extent of this is not fully appreciated, and it is really part of the sexual revolution which now seems to be an accepted part of society. I further suspect that those who have never followed the same lifestyle, are probably very much in the minority, but I wouldn't like to put a figure on it.

I would question, I think, the idea that promiscuity is either disordered or destructive, anymore than driving very fast or partying are. It may be senseless enjoyment for the sake of it, but I don't think it does much harm by and large; assuming that people are cautious and informed. Alcohol and drugs are infinitely more destructive, and I spend quite a lot of my time talking to kids who do not realise the dangers; not always successfully it has to be said. I would personally take a draconian approach to both drugs and alcohol, but that wouldn't contribute the slightest. Far better, I suspect, to give kids the facts and point out the dangers, in the hope that they will eventually arrive at their own, sensible decisions, or not feel inhibited in seeking help to kick a habit or an addiction. The problem with the hedonistic lifestyle is the law of diminishing returns and the lack of depth, which often leads to a state of unfulfilled boredom and lethargy; not to mention the missed opportunities.

A word of caution about comparisons with the animal kingdom, because to my knowledge, (which isn't very extensive), both otters and swans mate and pair for life, and I'm sure there are other examples.

Apart from the legal issues surrounding marriage, I think that any long-term commitment, of whatever sexuality, can only be a good thing, even if it fails to work out in due course. I suspect that one of the rarest things I have ever known, concerns a boy and girl who were great friends at about 14 years of age. At 16 they were very much in love, and would wander around hand-in-hand, smiling and laughing as they went. I saw them a couple of years later and they were just the same. Then I played the organ for their wedding in due course, and now, every Sunday, I see them with their teenage offspring at Sunday Mass. Never have I seen two people as solidly in love as they, and it is a rare and joyful thing to behold.

With one notable and glorious exception, when I stumbled across two elderly gentlemen in Brighton, (one of whom was in a wheelchair), I don't think I've seen the same level of commitment in the gay world. However, to prove me wrong by their glorious exception, Cecil and Billy were in their late 70's, had met as stage-hands in London at the age of 16, and had been together the better part of 60 years.

I think that the open hostility and outrage expressed by many churchmen towards the subject of gay marriage is particularly sad, because in any human situation involving love and commitment, there is so much in which to rejoice.

Do they actually prefer the alternative because it reinforces their sense of right, wrong and some sort of sanctified and exclusive morality, which of course, is the very opposite of inclusivity?

Bigotry and prejudice, by their very nature, are belief based rather than evidence based, yet they find a certain resonance among church-folk and especially the Roman Catholic hierarchy.

Interestingly, the Unitarian church is the only denomination never to have erected such barriers or express ill-founded prejudice.

I await the eventual outcome of the debate with interest; assuming that it doesn't result in a complete schism among the ranks of the faithful.

Best,

MM