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Messages - pcnd5584

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#41
New Pipe Organs / Re: Manchester Cathedral - Kenneth Tickell
January 26, 2015, 01:52:11 PM
Quote from: David Drinkell on January 22, 2015, 07:17:05 PM
Cocker originally planned for a complete screen division, but funds were not sufficient to include it.  In fact, he had visions of an enormous amount of organ, including electronic divisions, to serve various parts of the building and hoped to pipe sections would be built by Harrison and Compton as a joint effort.  That would have been interesting.... ...

...And probably bizarre. Thank goodness it was never built. The Cocker/Wicks/H&H is quite weird enough for my taste....
#42
New Pipe Organs / Re: Manchester Cathedral - Kenneth Tickell
January 17, 2015, 11:52:28 PM
Quote from: Northern Friend on January 12, 2015, 04:10:34 PM
Yes this finally appears to be going ahead. A possible new organ built on the medieval screen was first proposed about 30 years ago. The current 4 manual Harrison was installed after the previous Wm. Hill organ on the screen was destroyed. The current organ enclosed in boxes down the north and south quire aisles is rather 'Harrison-esque' - a lot of organ fitted in a small space. Someone once referred to it as 'a buried giant'. I don't think it's been one of Harrison's better ones. ....

This may have been largely the fault of Norman Cocker. His scheme for the previous instrtument (mostly destroyed in WWII) was far better. Allan Wicks (appointed after the death of Cocker) was able to secure a few last-minute alterations to the stop-list, but there are still a number of oddities and departures from Harrisons' normal practice. Remember too that the organ was first installed between 1952-57 and there would still have been restrictions on the purchase of certain materials - to say nothing of a shortage of funds. Much of it, like many other reconstituted instruments built at this time, was almost certainly done 'on the cheap'.
#43
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Atlantic City Convention Hall Organs
June 21, 2014, 11:27:24 PM
Quote from: Midmerlosh on June 20, 2014, 04:50:46 AM
HELLO!

     WILLIAM JACKSON WAS THE FIRST CITY ORGANIST AT CONVENTION HALL IN ATLANTIC CITY, NEW JERSEY. THE MIDMERLOSH IS STILL TODAY THE WORLD'S LARGEST ORGAN WITH MAGNIFICENT SOUND. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IMFORMATION OR AUDIO OF MR. JACKSON PLAYINGNTHIS ORGAN? THANKS SO MUCH!

Welcome to the board - but please avoid typing entirely in uppercase characters.
#44
Organ Builders / Re: Organ Design new website
May 30, 2014, 11:59:42 AM
The website looks to be interesting, with a generally pleasing layout. However, you might mention to the person who types your stop-lists in .pdf format that the relevant organ stop is spelled 'Principal' - not 'Principle'. (This stop is consistently mis-spelled in the stop-lists of both Saint Mary's Metropolitan Cathedral organ and the Manchester house organ; however it is spelled correctly on the Hastings stop-list.)
#45
YouTube and other MP3 recordings of organs and organ music or other music of relevance / Re: Cameron Carpenter - Damaging the organ scene or Himself
May 26, 2014, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: KB7DQH on May 25, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
Have you had the opportunity to see the review I wrote here on this forum of a concert he gave (on a real tracker organ no less :o here locally, (a month ago to this day) which I attended? I (hope) I make the case he may be damaging far more than "the organ scene" or "himself" but the whole of civilized society :o :o :o ;)

http://www.organmatters.com/index.php/topic,1791.msg8395.html#msg8395

If nothing else, the few most recent comments I read at the Youtube link above mean my assessment based on his live performance isn't too far off the mark ??? :o ;)

Eric
KB7DQH

It is interesting to read these reviews.

On the basis of the video link alone, I can tell you this: he is unlikely to attract younger people to play in this country - I cannot think of any parent whose child I teach, who would willingly let their offspring near him.  Please note that this is not to cast any slur on his moral character - simply that the persona which he chooses to portray appears (to a reasonable person) to be somewhat odd.
#46
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 09, 2014, 11:37:12 PM
Quote from: revtonynewnham on May 09, 2014, 10:29:39 AM
Hi

I've never found any problems with Compton's double-touch pistons - a far more sensible idea IMHO than "great & Pedal Pistons coupled" which makes it impossible to pre-set the Great registration if you're playing on another manual & pedals!  I've also not had problems with their double-touch cancelling stop keys or drawstops - another very useful idea.  (I did have issues with Rushworth & Dreaper's double-touch cancels - I guess they tried to economise or "improve" the design after they took over Compton.  The one organ of theirs, which I used to play annually, was a nightmare as the 2nd touch springs were far too weak - adding the Great Mixture or Swell to Great could all too easily cancel the rest of the Great stops!)

Every Blessing

Tony

This is indeed irritating - but I had thought that Rushworths also provided a 'Double Touch Canceller', which, so to speak, cancelled the canceller. (Or perhaps this was J.W. Walker - or even Hele & Co....)
#47
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 09, 2014, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: JBR on May 09, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
Thank you gentlemen.  So, a good idea if well installed and adjusted.

Well, possibly.

It depends on how one intends to use the instrument.

As far as I can recall, the Compton units had a strong spring resistance for the second-touch, which necessitates a deliberate, firm pressure, in order to achieve the desired result. in practice, this usually means that one cannot make rapid piston changes (at least, not with the double-touch for the Pedal combinations), since this would require more pressure than normal, so a quick 'flick' at a piston would simply not suffice. Therefore, one would need a hand free in order to effect the extra movement required. Rapid changes in faster music are sometimes difficult or impossible to bring off cleanly with this system. Perhaps the fact that there are not many instruments in the UK with this type of system is indicative of practical difficulties.

Personally, I much prefer the piston coupler drawstops.
#48
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 07, 2014, 11:31:29 PM
Quote from: David Drinkell on May 06, 2014, 03:56:43 PM
... A Gt & Ped Combs which goes off on the General Cancel is an awful nuisance, but the stop itself is an oddity, being more often on than off and sometimes left out when the organ is not in use.  Perhaps it would be more logical to have a device to uncouple Great and Pedal combinations, but, again, I think a rocking tablet in the keyslip would be best.  North American organs tend not to have this coupler, but instead a separate set of thumb pistons for the Pedal, situated to the left of the Great pistons and G/P reversible.  This has advantages, but the disadvantage that the inter-manual reversibles have to go to the right of the department pistons, where they are well-nigh useless.

Yes - but even more irritating is the fact that it is necessary to press two pistons simultaneously (and which are not adjacent to each other), in order to balance the Pedal and G.O. divisions tonally. I have encountered his 'feature' when playing hired toasters and can find no advantage whatsoever in replacing a piston coupler with separate pedal thumb pistons. However, as you say, the Pedal and G.O. piston coupler is often drawn virtually continuously. Ours stays out all the time (unless a visitor pushes it in). Harrison organ which possess the piston coupler Pedal to Swell Pistons* usually isolate this stop from the General Cancel, too. I do not think that I can ever recall either of these stops being pushed in at Exeter Cathedral.



* There are one or two instruments by other builders which also possess this coupler. Chichester is one; however, Dr. Alan Thurlow was formerly Sub Organist at Durham Cathedral, from 1973-80. This Harrison organ has both piston couplers which, I understand, is where Dr. Thurlow got the idea of incorporating the Pedal to Swell Pistons coupler in the rebuild at Chichester. When correctly wired, this stop provides for an entirely separate set of Pedal combinations, in order to balance those of the Swell Organ. There are other - less useful - versions. The Civic Church of Saint Peter, Bournemouth, has two stops (which do not appear on the NPOR entry), labelled to the effect of 'Pedal and Swell pistons' and 'Pedal and Choir Pistons' - or similar. These stops are entirely useless, since all they do is duplicate the standard Pedal combinations. Thus, if  the Clarinet is set on Choir piston eight, on drawing the coupler 'Pedal and Choir Pistons' and pressing Choir piston eight again, the full Pedal will come into play.

Quite what either Rushworths or John Belcher were thinking here remains a mystery to me.
#49
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 06, 2014, 02:10:26 PM
Quote from: David Drinkell on May 05, 2014, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: pcnd5584 on May 05, 2014, 08:21:05 AM
Yes - but it is not the height of the draw-stop jambs which pushes up the music desk.[/font]

Ah, but Salisbury or the old Willis III console at Canterbury have a row of generals above the top manual, the music desk being a fair height above that.  It is hardly lower than those at Hereford or Truro.  The couplers make the side jambs inconveniently tall and, although one may reasonably be expected to remember which speaking stops are on, and can check with a quick sideways flick of the eyes, it is handy to have the couplers always in full view in front.

I would agree with you regarding the general pistons - about the worst place to put them. However, I did notice that at least now the Pedal and G.O. piston coupler and the Generals/Swell foot piston transfer have been disconnected from the General Cancel.

However, I found the height of the jambs to be fine, although I should prefer the stop layout to be more balanced, with three staggered paired columns on each jamb.

I am still not convinced about the couplers. Since the unison inter-clavier couplers are engraved in red at Salisbury, it is comparatively easy to see which are drawn. However, with a long row (of thirty or so, in an instrument of this size), I would find it far harder to tell at a glance which couplers were engaged.

Mind you, those Solo strings are absolutely gorgeous. In addition, the build-up is one of the smoothest I know.
#50
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 05, 2014, 08:21:05 AM
Quote from: David Drinkell on May 04, 2014, 12:37:48 AM
It's a lot more than occasional charming effects - the possibilities are virtually limitless. Paul Hale has pointed out that, on a Skinner organ, one has a number of different ways of building up, and can then work down by a completely different route.  The couplers are an important and integral part of this.  It's more like orchestration than registration.

I think Willis tablets (similar to those used by Austin) look quite handsome.  The Skinner type, also used by Casavant, are plainer and slightly less easy to handle.  With regard to console height,  the extra height necessitated by a row of tablets is more than compensated for by that saved by not having coupler drawstops on the side jambs.  Hereford, with tabs, is a lot easier to handle than Salisbury (or the old Canterbury console) - providing one is used to the system.  It's more compact, too, as is usual with the Skinner-type console.  Mine has four manuals, 55 drawstops and 34 couplers and I can easily see over the top of it.  The English convention that drawstops should be in double rows tends to make a console taller, but in practice the North American  practice of triple or even quadruple rows is no less easy to manage.

One works with what one has.  I use all 34 couplers regularly, even the more unusual ones.

Yes - but it is not the height of the draw-stop jambs which pushes up the music desk.

As it happens, I am playing again at Salisbury today, for  a visiting choir. I have never had any difficulty managing the stops on this instrument. The only slightly annoying thing is that the General Cancel also withdraws the piston coupler (which is unusual). This might be fine for some repertoire, but it is a little inconvenient when accompanying a choir.

I much prefer the look of the Salisbury console (and the former one at Canterbury), to that at Hereford - on a large HWIII console with rocking tablets for couplers, the stop jambs often looked squat.

#51
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 02, 2014, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: David Drinkell on May 02, 2014, 05:33:31 PM
I think we need to remember that, overall, the present set-up at Canterbury works rather well, although the Quire organ could do with some added variety in Romantic voices.  The present Nave Organ seems to pull the sound of the Quire organ down into the building and it is not unduly difficult to accompany massed singing in the Nave.  I don't see much advantage in a bigger instrument in a similar position to the present Nave Organ, and a Bombarde division there might be a touch painful for people sitting near to it.

A large west end organ would be musically (and, potentially, visually) stunning, but it might be difficult to argue for it as a liturgical necessity.

Yet it is possible that one or more of the cathedral musicians thinks that a Nave organ is worth considering. I must admit that I thought that the effect of the Quire organ in the Nave at Canterbury was rather like that at Chichester. To a small extent, the Nave organ does help to project the main organ into the Nave. However, once the upper-work (particularly the Mixture) is out, then the Quire organ fades into the background.

With regard to the Bombarde division, I did not intend that it was voiced in the manner of that at Westminster Abbey. Wind pressures would be moderate, even the reeds would not 'shout', but rather add richness, clarity and body.


Quote from: David Drinkell on May 02, 2014, 05:33:31 PM
Sylvestrina - difficult to describe, because different examples were voiced in various ways, with various harmonics brought out as may have been felt appropriate.  However, a salicional with a very quiet flute to give it substance might come close, or a quiet version of a good Swell gemshorn.  The idea certainly seems to have been based on Skinner's Erzahler, which EMS described as kaleidoscopic.

I am quite surprised at this - reading many of the letters of HWIII (in The American Classic Organ, by Charles Callahan), it soon becomes clear that HWIII had exacting standards for voicing - and that every detail was prescribed and laid down by Willis himself. Of course, the acoustics of a building would have an effect, as would the wind pressures, although these again were often standardised, depending on the size of the building and the specification of the instrument in question.

Quote from: David Drinkell on May 02, 2014, 05:33:31 PM
Side-tracking again to octave couplers (one day I will get round to a proper setting out of why I think a full set is invaluable),  last Sunday I extemporised a little partita on 'O filii et filiae' before the 11:00 Choral Eucharist.  I had one 8' or 4' flute on each manual.  By use of the octave couplers, I could find a distinctive and different registration for each variation - flipping up and down octaves, cancelling unisons, etc.  It's easy to do this with a row of tabs, but difficult with drawstops.  St. James' Cathedral, Toronto is a classic example of how not to do it - every conceivable type of coupler, including Pedal Octave and Unison Off, all done by drawstops, all the drawstops lettered in black.  It's very difficult to see the state of play at any given time and the jambs are very tall (the console is by Walker, the organ by virtually anyone who happened to be passing).

Salisbury Cathedral is similar, although there the unison couplers (as at Truro Cathedral) are lettered in red, whilst the inter-departmental octave couplers are lettered in black. However, I still dislike couplers in a long row. In fact, I detest the look of stop keys, tabs or rocking tablets; I find them aesthetically unpleasant. I should always prefer stop control to be solely by draw-stop. Aside from the fact that in four-clavier organs it tends to push the music desk higher than I find comfortable, I simply do not like searching for the coupler I want in a long line of closely spaced stop-keys.

Whilst I take your point that occasional charming effects may be obtained through the use of octave couplers, surely on an instrument of even moderately large size there is ample tonal variety without resorting to such devices. The only time I have specified a 'full' set of octave couplers, was on the instrument in Saint Aldhelm's, Branksome - II/P 36 - since I felt that, on this smaller instrument, the extra couplers would help to provide some accompanimental flexibility, which would otherwise be curtailed by the size of the instrument.
#52
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
May 02, 2014, 09:46:22 PM
Quote from: flared_ophicleide on May 01, 2014, 11:49:17 PM
Pcnd. With regards to extension and borrowing, the size of the room and its associated acoustic would actually be feasible. To be safe, one could adopt the principles that John Compton used in his work.

With this in mind, I remember reading about how Marcel Dupre remarked that he couldn't tell that Downside Abbey's organ's 90-some stops were derived from just 38 ranks.

Yet it is clear that your 3-division tonal design is largely straight.  This could work and just the Great of which would definitely be adequate for bringing the tone of the main organ out into the Nave.

To be honest, I am not a particular fan of either manual extension or the work of John Compton (and, yes, I have played several of his instruments, including one quite large extension instrument in original condition). However, in this case, I decided, on grounds of space, to include a small amount of extension on ranks which would be less noticeable.

#53
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 30, 2014, 05:18:53 PM
Quote from: flared_ophicleide on April 29, 2014, 02:36:44 AM
Quote from: flared_ophicleide on April 25, 2014, 10:46:09 PM
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

... Regarding the Nave....  This could be problematic due to the limited possibilities of placing even a modest 4-manual therein.  I have to say, Dr. Chris Batchelor, Mark Venning, and any others who have final say in a design, have an interesting dilemma to sort out here.

And whatever remains of the 4 million quid, thereafter, can be put toward building maintenance and any outstanding broken items.



I think that it would be virtually impossible to place a pipe organ of any reasonable size in the Nave of Canterbury Cathedral, without ruining the visual aspect of this beautiful building. (Unless, as I already suggested, an instrument was suspended from the Nave vault.)

Perhaps concentrating on the instrument in the Quire, and making this as good as possible might be one solution. One other possibility is to utilise another of the (fairly shallow) 'shelves' under the windows of the North Nave Aisle, as Mander Organs did for the existing Nave Organ. IF the cathedral authorities would countenance the re-working of the existing case, in order to provide a little more room*, then it might be possible to provide something along the lines of this:

PEDAL ORGAN

Open Diapason  (M; bass on front)  16
Sub Bass  16
Quint  (Derived)  10 2/3
Principal  (M; ext.)  8
Stopped Flute  (W; ext.)  8
Super Octave  (M; ext.) 4
Bombarde  (M) 16
Great to Pedal
Bombarde to Pedal

GREAT ORGAN

Bourdon  (12 from Pedal)  16
Open Diapason  8
Rohr Flute  8
Octave  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Posaune  8
Sub Octave
Bombarde to Great

BOMBARDE ORGAN

Open Diapason  8
Harmonic Flute  8
Prestant  4
Flauto Traverso  4
Furniture  (15-19-22-26-29-33)  IV
Cornet  (1-8-12-15-17:  G20)  V
Bombarde  (12 from Pedal)  16
Trompette Harmonique  8
Clairon Harmonique  (Ext.)  4
Nave on Quire Clavier I
Nave on Quire Clavier II
Nave Great on Quire clavier II
Nave Bombarde on Quire Clavier IV

Whilst there is more extension and borrowing than is ideal, nevertheless, with good quality voicing and workmanship, such a scheme might provide the answer to the lack of organ tone in the Nave.



* For example, if the case were to be made a couple of feet deeper, with a greater 'waisting-out' at impost level, then this (together with a similar case in the next bay east), would provide room for somewhat greater resources. This would have the attraction of being one solution to loss of floor space. Such a scheme would result in minimal loss of same. Alternatively, a new case could be made, whic spans both bays and has a continuous impost at the front.[./font]
#54
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 26, 2014, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: flared_ophicleide on April 25, 2014, 10:46:09 PM
If I had to guess, I'd say that the Nave organ would be installed before the Quire organ is reconstructed. But again, I could be wrong. What if they want to base the Nave organ on the reconstructed Quire organ?

I should have thought that the opposite would be the case. I still cannot imagine where a Nave organ would be placed - unless Klais produce another of their 'hanging' instruments (c.f. Cologne Cathedral Nave organ).
#55
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 25, 2014, 07:51:35 AM
Quote from: David Drinkell on April 24, 2014, 05:35:34 AM
Quote from: pcnd5584 on April 23, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
David, with respect, I would still question your assertion regarding the present Choir Organ foundation stops (presumably 8ft. and 4ft.), to which you refer. The instrument in its previous incarnation possessed no less than five 8ft.  and two 4ft. flues; in addition, there were three further flue ranks on the former Solo Organ, together with a 4ft. Wald Flute. having heard (although not played) this instrument live, I am doubtful that a Stopped Diapason, a Dulciana, a Principal and a Chimney Flute are adequate compensation. Certainly colleagues who have played this instrument - and who have had to accompany choirs on it - have been unanimous in criticising the lack of quiet accompanimental voices, particularly on the Choir Organ. They also felt that, whilst they may not be representative of the neo-Baroque school, nevertheless, there was a perceived lack of subtlety and variety.[/font]

I don't think we have a deep disagreement here.  I remember the organ pre-Mander, with the larger palette of 8 and 4' stops on the Choir Organ.  My impression was that, up there in the triforium, they lacked the opportunity to provide as much subtlety as one might have expected.  I think that the present Choir Organ foundations are adequate for the task in hand, in the same way that those on a typical Father Willis Choir Organ would be, but that an organ such as this needs to be more than  adequate.  Thus,  there is a need for an enclosed Solo Organ with at least a pair of strings, a couple of flutes, a corno di bassetto and perhaps an orchestral oboe. 

The old organ had a full set of octave couplers, too (although controlled by draw-stops, which made them less use than if controlled by tablets above the top manual), and that increased the flexibility very much.

But I would say that, wouldn't I? :)

Ha - indeed! (Although we shall disagree forever about the perceived usefulness of rocking tablets above the fourth clavier....)

For the record, can you recall what the Sylvestrina sounded like - or how effective the Choir mutations were, particularly in combination with the rare (for HWIII0 1ft, stop (Ocravin)?

I would certainly agree regarding the additions, though. Perhaps something along the lines of the present Solo Organ at Salisbury Cathedral.* The strings there are perhaps the perfect Solo strings - Arthur Harrison's were often too acidic and scratchy.



* I regard this as a superb instrument - although I heartily wish that HWIII had provided one of his Grand Chorus (15-19-22-26-29) stops on the G.O., here. This would help the instrument to make a better impact in the long Nave. It would also provide a sorely needed alternative to the wretched tierce mixtures.
#56
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 24, 2014, 12:09:03 AM
Quote from: Gwas_Bach on April 23, 2014, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: pcnd5584 on April 23, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

I assume he's referring to the choice of stops in his own hypothetical design, e. g. the  "Harmonics" on the Swell.

Well, on the Tuba Organ, to be strictly accurate. However, I do see your point. I had mis-read the meaning (or context) of the sentence. There are certain influences traceable to Arthur Harrison in the scheme as proposed by flared_ophicleide.

However, as far as I know, Arthur Harrison only ever used the following compositions for his 'Harmonics' compound stops:

17-19-flat 21-22 (most usually)

10-17-19-flat 21-22 (Ely Cathedral, for example)

10-15-17-19-flat 21-22  (Royal Albert Hall: isolated example)

The nearest match for the example by flared_ophicleide, is that on the Bombard section of the Solo Organ of the instrument in the Royal Albert Hall. In this stop, a nineteenth is substituted for the flat twenty-first, and the stop is named 'Sesquialtera'.

With regard to the scheme by flared-ophicleide, whilst there is much that makes sense, I should wish for a stronger 2ft. stop on the Choir Organ. I dislike Piccolos - partly due to the fact that every example which I have tried, seems to be unsteady in wind (even that on the Solo Organ at Exeter Cathedral). In addition, this stop would be unlikely to form a satisfactory bridge between the Choir foundations (even the 4ft. stop is presumably to be of inverted conical construction and therefore a hybrid), and the four-rank Mixture.

#57
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 23, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
Quote from: David Drinkell on April 22, 2014, 04:11:13 AM
Is there any point in attempting to recapture Samuel Green's sound from a nucleus of his pipes when the organ is to remain in the triforium?

As to the rest, it would involve extra soundboards and space is not unlimited.  The present organ is quite big enough for the Quire of the building and works very well.  The consensus seems to be that what it needs is more variety of Romantic voices (and the return of the 32 foot flue), although I would maintain that the lower registers of the present Choir Organ are more useful in quiet accompaniment than postings on this thread would suggest.  They have more in common with a Victorian Choir Organ than a neo-baroque Positif.

One could argue the case for some big fanfare reeds, but the place for them would not be in the Quire organ.

With regard to Samuel Green's pipe-work, it is likely that FHW treated it the same way that he did with Green's pipe-work at Wells Cathedral (in this case, he was specifically requested by Ouseley to leave it as it was*). I doubt that any of the present pipes at Canterbury still speak with Green's 'voice'. In any case, Green's pipe-work had a reputation as being somewhat gentle in tone, and was probably judged as inadequate to fill the enormous sonic space of Canterbury Cathedral, by FHW.

I am puzzled by the comment from flared_ophicleide regarding identifying the work of H&H - Canterbury is one of a number of cathedral organs which this firm has never touched.

David, with respect, I would still question your assertion regarding the present Choir Organ foundation stops (presumably 8ft. and 4ft.), to which you refer. The instrument in its previous incarnation possessed no less than five 8ft.  and two 4ft. flues; in addition, there were three further flue ranks on the former Solo Organ, together with a 4ft. Wald Flute. having heard (although not played) this instrument live, I am doubtful that a Stopped Diapason, a Dulciana, a Principal and a Chimney Flute are adequate compensation. Certainly colleagues who have played this instrument - and who have had to accompany choirs on it - have been unanimous in criticising the lack of quiet accompanimental voices, particularly on the Choir Organ. They also felt that, whilst they may not be representative of the neo-Baroque school, nevertheless, there was a perceived lack of subtlety and variety.



* In the monograph Organs and Organists of Wells Cathedral, by Roger Bowers, L.S. Colchester and Anthony Crossland, it is suggested that the letter which Ouseley wrote, stating that certain stops by Green 'ought not to be touched on any account', was never brought to Willis' attention. However, some other sources have suggested that FHW was fully aware of the letter - but chose to ignore it.
#58
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 17, 2014, 10:42:19 AM
With the above (regarding perceived lack of floor space) in mind, I suggest the following alternative solution:

PEDAL ORGAN

Contra Bass  (12W, 18M; bearded)  16
Bourdon  16
Octave  (M)  8
Stopped Flute  (Ext.)  8
Super Octave  (Ext.)  4
Contra Bassoon  (W)  32*
Bombarde  16
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Solo to Pedal

* Lowest twelve notes are half-length.

COMBINATIONS

Pedal to Great Pistons
Great to Pedal Pistons
Pedal to Swell Pistons
Generals on Swell Foot Pistons

GREAT ORGAN

Bourdon  (12 from Pedal)  16
Open Diapason  8
Stopped Diapason  8
Principal  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Posaune  8
Swell to Great
Solo to Great

SWELL ORGAN

Open Diapason  8
Flauto Traverso  8
Viole de Gambe  8
Voix Célestes  (A10)  8
Principal  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (22-26-29-33)  IV
Hautboy  8
Tremulant
Double Trumpet  16
Cornopean  8
Clarion  4
Chorus reeds on Pedal
Sub Octave
Unison Off
Octave

SOLO ORGAN
(Unenclosed)
Open Diapason  8
Wald Flöte  8
Octave  4
Flûte Harmonique  4
Cornet  (1-8-12-15-17: G20)  V
Furniture  19-22-26-29-33-36)  VI
Cremona  8
Tremulant
Tuba Magna  8
Trompette Harmonique  8
Reeds Sub Octave

#59
New Pipe Organs / Re: Canterbury Cathedral
April 17, 2014, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: David Drinkell on April 14, 2014, 08:12:57 AM
It's not so much the size of the building, but the fact that, to all intents and purposes, it is two buildings.  The Quire, where the main organ is situated, is divided from the nave by the crossing, a substantial set of steps and the stone screen.  For nave services, when the choir sits on the steps, the main organ provides good support from behind, and the small nave organ seems to draw the sound down into the nave to support congregational singing.  However, in the particular circumstances, there is much to be said for having a cathedral-sized organ in the nave as a separate entity.

It will be good to have a Solo Organ restored to the Quire instrument.  What is there is of highest quality, but lacks the variety that a set of broad strings, harmonic flutes and corno di bassetto would add.  Allan Wicks  reckoned that scrapping the fourth manual had been a mistake.

I would agree with David. This is a very long building which is, to all intents and purposes, divided in two. The long flight of stone steps leading up to the pulpitum screen (itself extremely substantial) make both a visual and an acoustical break roughly mid-way along the length of the building.

What a pity that some cathedral organists were (and are) only wise after the event. I have always regarded the scrapping of the superb Solo Organ at Canterbury Cathedral to be nothing less than disastrous. Now one is faced with accompanying a choir on what is effectively a large two-clavier organ. The present Choir Organ, nice as it may be for Baroque repertoire, is of little practical use in choral accompaniment, with the possible exception of the Cremona (although this stop is unenclosed, since the entire Choir Organ is placed on an open soundboard).

I would agree that a substantial Nave organ is required - although whether it needs to be of four divisions plus Pedal Organ might be open to question. It may be that two (or at most, three) good-sized departments, with a fairly hefty Pedal Organ would suffice. Unless, that is, it is the intention to allow the cathedral choir to sing from the Nave rather more frequently than is presently the case. If this is not the intention, I am not sure that a fourth clavier would be required. For recital purposes, a well designed three-clavier instrument should suffice.

One major problem would be the siting of a Nave organ. Canterbury Cathedral does not possess large empty triforia (such as that at Peterborough Cathedral). Instead, there is a series of blind arcades, each with a pierced middle 'light'. Therefore it is likely that any instrument would need to stand on the pavement of the Nave (or the Nave aisles). Even the instrument below would require a substantial amount of floor space (and ample height). It might be possible to divide the organ and place each half in corresponding bays of the Nave, with the casework projecting back into the Nave aisles. However, I suspect that when the cathedral authorities realise how much room would actually be required - and the likely visual impact on the present vista up the Nave and, particularly, the aisles, they may decide that perhaps a nice electronic substitute, with a few carefully hidden speakers would be satisfactory, in order to supply the Nave of this large cathedral with adequate organ tone.

What follows is a suggested scheme for a Nave organ for Canterbury Cathedral; and, no, I have not carried out an acoustical study, nor placed trial ranks on a voicing machine in the Nave. However, I have been consultant for a number of rebuilds and restorations on several instruments of varying sizes. And, whist certain consultants would ridicule the idea of 'armchair designers' and the drawing-up of schemes, nevertheless, the process often starts with a list of desired stops (with reference to an overall plan) - not with a set of scale diagrams, or the proposed dimensions of main and breakdown reservoirs.

PEDAL ORGAN

Sub Bourdon  (Ext.)  32
Contra Bass  (W; bearded)  16
Open Diapason  (M)  16
Violone  (W)  16
Bourdon  16
Octave  (M)  8
Violoncello  (M)  8
Stopped Flute  (Ext.)  8
Viola  (M; ext.)  4
Mixture  (15-19-22)  III
Contra Trombone  (W; ext.)  32
Bombarde  (M)  16
Trombone  (W)  16
Clarion  8
Shawm  4
Great to Pedal
Swell to Pedal
Solo to Pedal
Solo Octave to Pedal

COMBINATIONS

Pedal to Great Pistons
Great to Pedal Pistons
Pedal to Swell Pistons
Generals on Swell Foot Pistons

GREAT ORGAN

Double Open Diapason  (12 from Pedal)  16
Open Diapason I  8
Open Diapason  I  8
Stopped Diapason  8
Wald Flöte  8
Octave  4
Principal  4
Flûte Harmonique  4
Fifteenth  2
Full Mixture  (15-19-22-26-29)  V
Sharp Mixture  (22-26-29-33-36)  V
Contra Posaune  16
Posaune  8
Clarion  4
Reeds on Pedal
Swell to Great
Solo to Great

SWELL ORGAN

Double Diapason  (Std. W+M)  16
Open Diapason  8
Flauto Traverso  8
Viole de Gambe  8
Voix Célestes  (G8)  8
Geigen Principal  4
Suabe Flöte  4
Fifteenth  2
Mixture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Hautboy  8
Tremulant
Double Trumpet  16
Cornopean  8
Clarion  4
Sub Octave
Unison Off
Octave

SOLO ORGAN
(Unenclosed)
Open Diapason  8
Flûte Harmonique  8
Rohr Flöte  8
Octave  4
Open Flute  4
Super Octave  2
Furniture  (19-22-26-29)  IV
Sharp Mixture  (26-29-33-36)  IV
Cornet  (1-8-12-15-17: G20)  V
Cromorne  8
Tremulant  (Not to mixtures)
Tuba Magna  8
Trompette Harmonique  8
Clairon Harmonique  4
Reeds Sub Octave


Aside from a limited amount of extension and borrowing (as marked) in the Pedal Organ, all other ranks are complete, unless stated otherwise.

Without carrying out acoustical tests, it is difficult to specify wind pressures; however, I suggest the following as a reasonable guide:

PEDAL ORGAN 

Flues: 100mm. Reeds: 100mm (Shawm); 225mm  (Trombones) and 300mm (Bombarde and Clarion)

GREAT ORGAN

Flues: 85mm. Reeds: 175mm.

SWELL ORGAN

Flues:  90mm. Reeds: 90mm (Hautboy) and 180mm (chorus reeds).

SOLO ORGAN

Flues:  100mm. Reeds: 90mm (Cromorne); 300mm (Trompette and Clairon); 450mm (Tuba).

ACTION wind up to 225mm.

Detached draw-stop console, with electro-pneumatic action to keys and pedals. Solid-State combination system,
with sixteen divisional channels and ninety-nine general channels. Obscure* digital display and selector panels.
Channels individually lockable. No sequencer.


Balanced crescendo pedal to the Swell Organ, working a sixteen-stage engine.





* May be rendered so by drawing a small panel across the front of the display.
#60
Organ Builders / Re: William Drake RIP
January 14, 2014, 04:34:30 PM
Quote from: revtonynewnham on January 13, 2014, 10:45:01 AM
Hi

News posted by Organists' Review last night of the death of organ builder William Drake - perhaps best known for his restorations of Early English organs, and new -builds in that style.

Every Blessing

Tony

Ah - very sad. He had been unwell for a while, I believe.

I wonder what will happen to the parts of the former instrument which he removed from Christ Church, Spitalfields, which he was storing in his own workshop. (I am not sure how far along this had progressed, but there was some talk of him eventually carrying-out the restoration and re-installation of this organ.)
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