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Messages - pcnd5584

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#201
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 22, 2011, 11:30:33 PM
Quote from: comptonplus on July 22, 2011, 11:20:45 PM
Howard Goodalls Organ Works covered ALL aspects, from the first organs to modern day, including theatre organs (he went to Blackpool Tower and also included information on Hope Jones). It did not conentrate on one person, one organ, one type of music, it covered the lot, and a very good set of programmes it was too!!

For the record, I did not claim that it did concentrate on one person, organ or type of music. My point was that it also included a fair amount of time featuring 'classical' organs.
#202
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 22, 2011, 10:52:06 PM

Quote from: comptonplus on July 22, 2011, 09:17:29 PM
... If it is to be a TV Documentary, the man in the street will see Church/Classical organ and turn off immediately, but if you see a man in a white suit popping up out of the floor, I think it's more likely he will leave the TV on, even if for a split second to laugh at it! :-)

In fact, this was apparently not the case with either The King of Instruments (featuring Gillian Weir) or Howard Goodall's Organ Works.

#203
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 22, 2011, 10:49:16 PM
Quote from: barniclecompton on July 22, 2011, 03:34:14 PM
I give in, talkin to classical organists is like talking to a brick wall. I can see why everyone else has given up trying.
When it comes to the proms, I dont know ANYONE who watches them.
As for classical organ.......most people turn off/walk out/dont bother. Truth. If you dont want to beleive, dont.
As for-- but too many are a grating reminder of a bygone era of holidays consisting of walks along seafronts in driving rain and greasy chips and mushy peas. What I would like to hear more of is the theatre organ being treated as what it is - thats what people enjoy, thats what brings crowds. I dont see any symphonic style organists drawing BIG crowds, especially in the UK. The theatre organ is NOT a symphonic instrument.

Firstly, I am happy to say that many people here do watch the Promenade concerts. In addition, our local professional orchestra also performs its own Last Night of the Proms, which is always a sell-out - and hugely enjoyable.

Again, you appear to be making generalisations. I would not personally wish to be so certain that 'everyone' has given up trying to talk to classical organists.

It does seem that you have a somewhat restricted view of what constitutes fun, with regard to organ concerts and recitals. I can assure you that there are, in this part of the country, plenty of organ recitals in which the audience do not stamp, clap in time to the music, sing along, dance or jump around or otherwise take part physically. At the same time, they do not feel cheated that they have not done so - as far as I am aware, neither do they wish to. Nevertheless, they have had a thoroughly enjoyable time.

I hope that you would be encouraged to learn that, a few miles from here, is one of England's 'greater churches'. In this building, every Thursday lunch-time, an organ recital takes place. I have performed there myself, on a number of occasions. Furthermore, there is a regular and loyal following - I beileve that I am correct in stating that last week's audience numbered in excess of one hundred and eighty. This is, in fact, not unusual. The programmes are chosen carefully, both to avoid duplication withina series and in order that there is a reasonable variety of styles. However, the vast majority of the music is, again for want of a better term 'classical' organ music. For example, my own recitals have featured the final movements from Vierne's first and sixth symphonies, the first movement from the Second Symphony for Organ, various preludes (or toccatas) and fugues, by Bach and also a number of shorter pieces in a variety of styles. After each recital, several members of the audience(s) came up to speak, telling me how much they had enjoyed the concert. I say this for no other reason than to attempt to illustrate that, in this part of the country at any rate, 'serious' organ recitals are both appreciated and enjoyed by comparatively healthy (in terms of numbers) audiences.

In your last paragraph, I believe that you are actually superimposing your own views on what others might enjoy. I am pleased to learn that you have experienced theatre organ concerts (which you have evidently enjoyed) and which have drawn crowds. However, to imply that this is the only type of organ concert which is capable of doing so, is certainly not the case in this part of the world.

Incidentally, I would agree with you on one point - the cinema organ is definitely not a symphonic instrument. However, I would view it as an instrument which is orchestral in stlye.

It was heartening to read of Voix Cynique's story regarding the builder who has discovered a great passion for music which, if one were universally to adopt the type of philosophy you appear to recommend, he would have been denied the opportunity of ever hearing. Yet another example, which does illustrate the point that it can be folly to generalise.

The fact is, as the Reverend Newnham has written, there is good and bad in both - and each has a loyal following.

I think there is a danger that you are allowing yourself to be just as blinkered and intolerant in your views as you accuse those who like 'classsical' organ concerts of being.

For the record, as I write this, I am listening to a superb double CD of Oscar Peterson, performing in his inimitable style - for the most part with either a trio or a small band. In my car, currently I have CDs featuring Nickelback, Bob Dylan and Dire Straits. On my iPod Nano I have (amongst a whole host of the most catholic choices one could imagine) Linkin Park, Eminem (sorry, Tony....), Fall Out Boy, Cochereau and some Donald Fagen* (remember Steely Dan?). I am also proud to say that I do not wear slippers, I do not own a cardigan with tortoiseshell buttons - and I do not smoke a briar pipe....



* All of which are given an airing (to my great enjoyment) on a regular basis.

#204
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 22, 2011, 10:24:22 PM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 22, 2011, 05:07:54 PM
.... I recall PCND saying that he'd heard superb Vierne on a cinema organ and I have to say I'd much rather listen to Vierne or orchestral symphonies in transcription - anyone brave enough to take on the Havergal Brian Gothic?  ;D - than 'Oh I do like the be beside the sea-side' and the rest of the sentimental twaddle that seems to be the stock-in-trade of too many theatre organists. For God's sake we want something with some weight and profundity to dig into intellectually, not just to appeal on a totally superficial level!

Not quite. I was referring to an item which I saw on YouTube, in which Ken Cowan was playing (form memory and in a public concert) Healey Willan's monumental Introduction, Passacaglia & Fugue, in E-flat minor. Having said this, I actually only liked it for two reasons: firstly, his performance was excellent - both accurate and thoroughly musical. And secondly - he somehow managed to make whatever Wurlitzer he was using sound like (for want of a more precise description) a cathedral organ. That is, apart from one brief moment in the middle, when it sounded exactly what it was - a theatre organ. Whilst barniclecompton may disagree (which is his privilege), I simply did not like the sound at this point - and cannot see any point in pretending that I did.
#205
Organs in danger / Re: Vowles one manual plus pedal to be removed.
July 22, 2011, 01:32:18 PM

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 22, 2011, 11:06:20 AM
I'm not sure, I think it is just an old photograph. I'm not sure you could fake the grain of the wood like that, nor the ambient light. It certainly doesn't look terribly grand! I do wonder what musical use these instruments can be - they're hardly versatile. Sounds like the kind of instrument which would only be used for rather dull accompaniments of hymns...

I am inclined to agree that it is a photograph, for the reasons which you cite.

Regarding your last point: this is probably all that it has to do, with perhaps a simple voluntary or two each week. For this, it may be entirely adequate. Without hearing it, no valid judgment can be made as to the beauty or suitability of individual ranks.
#206
Organs in danger / Re: Vowles one manual plus pedal to be removed.
July 22, 2011, 01:30:48 PM
Quote from: pcnd5584 on July 22, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 22, 2011, 11:06:20 AM
I'm not sure, I think it is just an old photograph. I'm not sure you could fake the grain of the wood like that, nor the ambient light. It certainly doesn't look terribly grand! I do wonder what musical use these instruments can be - they're hardly versatile. Sounds like the kind of instrument which would only be used for rather dull accompaniments of hymns...

I am inclined to agree that it is a photograph, for the reasons which you cite.

Regarding your last point: this is probably all that it has to do, with perhaps a simple voluntary or two each week. For this, it may be entirely adequate. Without hearing it, no valid judgment can be made as to the beauty or suitability of individual ranks.
#207
Organs in danger / Re: Vowles one manual plus pedal to be removed.
July 22, 2011, 01:29:16 PM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 22, 2011, 11:06:20 AM
I'm not sure, I think it is just an old photograph. I'm not sure you could fake the grain of the wood like that, nor the ambient light. It certainly doesn't look terribly grand! I do wonder what musical use these instruments can be - they're hardly versatile. Sounds like the kind of instrument which would only be used for rather dull accompaniments of hymns...

I am inclined to agree that it is a photograph, for the reasons you cite.

Regarding your last point: this is probably all that it has to do, with perhaps a simple voluntary or two each week. For this, it may be entirely adequate. Without hearing it, no valid judgment can be made as to the beauty or suitability of individual ranks.
#208
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Interesting Stop Jamb list
July 20, 2011, 04:18:41 PM
Quote from: dragonser on July 20, 2011, 02:09:08 PM
Hi,
a good points people make about the Stop Jamb list.....
but I wonder if it might be the case that there is another stop jamb for the Swell manual with the stops that complement the ones shown ?

I doubt that this is the case, here. It looks to be from a fairly small- to moderate-sized instrument. It is true that, for example, H&H (particularly in the 1950s - '70s) often split the Pedal flues and reeds across two departmental panels*. Here, there is likely to be only three, or at most, four further stops, for the foundations.


* For example, Saint George's Chapel, Windsor Castle, Coventry Cathedral, Manchester Cathedral and The Royal Festival Hall.


Quote from: dragonser on July 20, 2011, 02:09:08 PM
is it sometimes the case that the drawstops are placed in order of pitch [ 16ft first ] then mixtures, then Reed stops [ again in pitch order ].
I mean that the drawstops start with the lowest pitch flute stops, then have the mixture stops [ are these flute pipes used on the mixtures ? or is it sometime reed pipes ? ] then the reed stops with lowest pitch Reed stops.
then this might explain why the stops are in the order they are and that another stop Jamb would be needed to complete the Swell division.

Whilst this is normal practice (except in certain instruments; for example Coventry Cathedral and the Royal Festival Hall), it appears here that there is too large a gap underneath the 4ft. Harmonic Flute. As I stated above, there are likely to be no more than four further draw-stops. It would be a very strange console layout which separated just four foundation stops from the rest of the Swell Organ. I have acted as a consultant on several occasions and, even in the case of small instruments, I have never needed to recommend this, through lack of space.

Quote from: dragonser on July 20, 2011, 02:09:08 PM
is it also the case that sometimes the Reed stop engravings are in Red ?

regards Peter B

Comptons and one or two other builders occasionally did this. Geo. Osmond & Co., of Taunton (now defunct) occasionally adopted this style - particularly where they used stop-keys, instead of draw-stops. Personally, I cannot see the point, particularly where, in the case of Osmond's, they also engraved the couplers and other accessories in red.

In fact, I think that the simple explanation is that, in order for the artwork to fit the available size, the jamb was 'Photo-shopped', to avoid the undesirable expedient of visually cutting a stop-head in half.

Having just zoomed-in on the photo, it is clear that this is exactly what was done, albeit reasonably neatly when viewed at normal size. A little below the Harmonic Flute draw-stop, there is a thin, dark line, running parallel to (and on the left of) the black inlay strip. Then, just below the stop-head, across the jamb, is an irregular line, with a slight discrepancy in the colour of the background, as compared to the rest of the jamb.

Thank goodness that little mystery has been solved. Now I shall sleep more easily tonight....
#209
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: The role of DAC organ advisers
July 19, 2011, 07:28:39 PM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 05:53:46 PM
A manual division with no 8ft flues? If it was a reed-only division one might understand, but having a 4ft-up flue chorus with no 8fts seems very strange...

Well, yes it does. But this is what it appears to be from the photograph. I doubt that this is actually the case, but if not, there is far too much space under the Harmonic Flute drawstop....
#210
Cinema Organs and Fairground instruments / Re: Town hall organs
July 19, 2011, 11:11:50 AM
Quote from: barniclecompton on February 20, 2011, 12:25:58 AM
Heres another thing on here i dont get. Why are town hall organs in with fair organs and theatre organs? Again, Im left askin the question, why are theatre organs in with fair organs?! Not good enough?!

Not necessarily. It may simply be that those who are responsible for producing such lists and sites, tend to group them in the category of 'entertainment venues'. I suspect that they would regard church organs (which, in any case, would be outside their purview) as fitting into the category of 'religious venues'. It may also be that they would view such places with deep suspicion....
#211
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 19, 2011, 09:39:40 AM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
I haven't heard St Alban's Holborn (except on a CD, with Vaughan Williams' Vision of Aeroplanes, among others) but is it really London's loudest organ? St Paul's is very loud (and this instrument is very much worth recording). The Lewis-Willis III at Westminster Cathedral also blows your head off - an instrument of simply awesome power. Again, very much worth recording.

Relative to the size of the building - Saint Paul's is vast. Saint Alban's, Holborn is not. In the building, this organ is truly unpleasant when driven hard.

Westminster Cathedral - yes, but my list was supplied for someone who wished to make a recording, but was un-connected with an established recording company. Therefore, I deliberately avoided the cathedrals and other buildings likely to be very busy, or where permission to record might be difficult to acquire.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Croydon PC is good (I know it well from Croydon Festival organ classes) but the late-60s Harrison rebuild really mucked up the tonal scheme - it's a classic neoclassicisation, albeit done to higher standards than some. Geoffrey Shaw, who runs the organ class, opines that St Michael and All Angels, West Croydon (another Pearson pile) is better (big 3m Father Willis made even bigger by Mander in the 1960s IIRC - though not all the additions work brilliantly). What of Pearson's other London churches? Tiny but incredibly powerful 2m Lewis at St Peter's Vauxhall and a big 3m Brindley & Foster in the cavernous Catholic Apostolic church in Maida Vale...

I have played the Willis/Mander organ ar Saint Michael and all Angels, Croydon, a few months ago. True, it is a good instrument - aside from the (experimental) 32ft. reed, which mostly does not work. Notes which do, sound distinctly odd. However, the rest of the instrument is in fairly good form. One of my colleagues is currently assisting in the running of the music, here.


Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
All Hallows Gospel Oak would be very much worthy (4-manual Hill instrument of 1915), but it's had no major restoration since installation and, while it still makes an heroic noise, it's very leaky now. Then there's the famous Father Willis nearby at St Dominic's Haverstock Hill...

I did not include the fine Hill organ at All Hallows, Gospel Oak, purely for this reason. It would be unreliable for a recording. Neither was I sure, at the time of writing, of the state of the FHW at Saint Dominic's Priory.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
The Harris/Hill/Rushworth & Dreaper at St Michael's Cornhill was in fine shape when I heard it earlier today in the highly capable hands of David Liddle - there's virtually nothing this magnificent organ can't do, and it's in a lovely acoustic.

The list was made up of instruments with which I am personally acquainted. I simply have not yet heard or played this instrument. Therefore, I was not prepared to recommend it on second-hand knowledge.

Out of interest, do you (or any other board member) have a current stop-list for this instrument, please? The most recent NPOR survey simply states that the organ has been returned to its 1926 incarnation. I assume that this would not include the action and combination system. It would be helpful to know exactly what has been done.

However, whilst not wishing to comment in detail before hearing it live, a perusal of the 1926 R&D scheme (and some knowledge of their 'house style' at this point) http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N17709, leads me to wonder if this organ may not be quite as versatile as you have suggested. Certainly, from the paper stop-list, whilst it looks to be well-equipped to give a good account of Romantic and symphonic music, I perceive that it appears somewhat less suitable to cope convincingly* with the music of JS Bach and his contemporaries.

Perhaps I shall be able to hear it this summer.

* For my ears.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
The 1912 J. W. Walker at the Sacred Heart, Edge Hill, Wimbledon, has just been used for the first time since its complete restoration by Mander - it has a very complete 3m 50-stop specification including three 32fts (Double Open Wood, Acoustic Bass and Contra Trombone) and stands on the West end gallery of a large church with a fine acoustic. I haven't heard it since its restoration but it certainly was a very fine instrument indeed - arguably one of the best of its size anywhere in the country.

At the original time of writing, this organ was very much in the middle of the restoration work and, apart from not being available, I was unsure how it would sound (and play) after it was completed.

Anyone here know the Anneessens/Willis III at the Immaculate Conception in Farm Street? Or the Harrison at H.A. and Jennifer Bate's church, St James's, Muswell Hill?

Farm Street: personally, I think that Nicholas Danby had Bishops spoil the tonal scheme in a number of details. Therefore, I did not wish to include this in my list.

Muswell Hill. Again, I have not heard or played this organ, but on paper, it looks to be a little too much like a standard H&H instrument (albeit with a few modifications, such as Choir mutations). Whilst I am fairly well-acquainted with Harrisons' voicing qualities on their modern style post-war instruments, this looked too traditional for me.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Also, Langham Place has a very large amount of pipework by Hunter - it's not just a Willis/H&H job. The acoustic is very dry, though.

Yes - this was is on my list - as was a comment regarding the acoustic properties of this Nash church.


Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
St Barnabas, Ealing, a colossal church (see http://www.barnabites.org/), has recently replaced an small 2m with this: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N01946. Haven't heard it yet but it should sound spectacular in that building - it already had a fine reputation in a confined chamber in a much smaller building with a dry acoustic.

St Joseph, Highgate, has a highly-reputed 4m Hill (http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=D03544), as does St Peter, Streatham (http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=N17302).

Again, I simply had no first-hand knowledge of these instruments, fine though they appear on paper.

I have played on many instruments - but not everywhere.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Another obvious one is the H&H in the Temple Church (though it's just being dismantled for restoration). The Lewis/Willis III at St Mary's Bourne Street is said to be very fine as well, and it's recently been restored. Another Willis III - this time with Gern origins - is that at St John's Holland Road, Kensington, a fine 4m organ in a resonant acoustic - but what state is it in these days?

The Temple Church - again, this was on my list. Saint Mary's, Bourne Street; this is not one of my preferred instiruments. The G.O. is rather small, for example, when compared to the rest of the organ.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Two churches in close proximity, in the Earl's Court area, are St Luke's Redcliffe Gardens, with a magnificent Norman & Beard of 44 stops in a good acoustic (and, I am told, recently overhauled), and St Cuthbert's, Philbeach Gardens, which has a 4m Hunter of some renown, restored two years ago by the Shepherd brothers - there are a few stops prepared for only (according to NPOR) but there are still 48 there.

Again, I have no first-hand knowledge of these instruments.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Southwark Cathedral seems to be rather under-recorded, but then the noise of the trains could make it problematic...

Anyone know the Kenneth Jones 4m at St Peter's Eaton Square? I've spent many hours with it, but I was only about 3 years old then so I can't remember anything of it! Very resonant building, though - went to a piano recital there a couple of years ago where I was deafened by an over-enthusiastic pianist and a big Fazioli...

Southwark Cathedral - for the reason which you mentioned (and the fact that I considered that permission to record would be difficult to obtain), I did not include this superb instrument.

Saint Peter's, Eaton Square - my probelm here was personal. I must confess that I did allow it to influence my decision not to include this organ. As a student, I practised regularly on the old Lewis/Walker instrument (and, in fact, took two of my diploma examinations on it). I was extremely fond of it, and rather devastated when the church was set alight and reduced to little more than the outside walls. Consequently, I simply do not wish even to enter the new building - therefore, I have no idea what this instrument sounds like.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
St Cyprian, Clarence Gate, also has a rather fine 3m Spurden Rutt. Fantastic Comper church with fabulous furnishings, all hard, so the acoustic is good...

Again, I do not know this instrument.

Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
Westminster Central Hall is in the closing stages of its rebuild, will be finished in mere weeks - what it will sound like I cannot say. I have to admit that some of the recent works of H&H (who're doing the rebuild) have struck me as highly competent but a bit soulless - but some have been very impressive. I won't judge it until I've heard it. The Walker at St Margaret's, just across the road, is also rather good (though it's been a few years since I've heard it).

Like that at the Sacred Heart, Wimbledon, this organ was in the process of being rebuilt, so would have been unavailable. As before, I would need to see how it turned out, prior to making any recommendation.


Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:24:29 AM
http://www.stjamespaddington.org.uk/gallery/the-organ.html is, I am told by a source I trust, quite magnificent, and I'm prepared to believe it. Hope to go up there some time soon to hear it for myself. Anyone know what state the big Compton at St Mary Magdalene is in? Last I saw and heard, the place was rather derelict... the church website suggests things are improving, but that the organ can be troublesome. Also, what of the current Compton instrument in Southwark RC Cathedral? Any good? I know that there's a campaign to replace it, but Comptons just are unfashionable at the moment...

Some food for thought, anyway.

Saint James, Sussex Gardens, Paddington. Yes - I do know this instrument; I had simply forgotten to include it on my list.

The large Compton at Saint Mary Magdalene is, I believe, in a less than good state. Therefore I omitted it, on grounds of unreliability.

Of the Compton at the Roman Catholic Cathedral, I do not know. I heard it once, and thought that it sounded a little undistinguished. It is, as you suggest, under review. For this reason, I suspected that it might not be in the best of health (otherwise, it would be difficult for the incumbent organists to persuade the authorities that a new instrument was necessary).
#212
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: The role of DAC organ advisers
July 19, 2011, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 19, 2011, 01:28:12 AM
One assumes that the 8ft flues are out of the bottom of the picture!

In which case, one may assume incorrectly.

Look closely at the photograph (which appears not to have been edited) - there is too much space on the right, below the Harmonic Flute. Either, for some reason, the jamb was laid out with a larger gap between the lowest stops on this department, or they are simply not there....
#213
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Curious specification
July 19, 2011, 12:16:45 AM
Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 18, 2011, 10:52:08 PM
Hi!

On http://www.aioa.org.uk/services/costs.htm should I doubt sanity in the composition of the stop jamb depicted there?

Best wishes

David P

Interesting. It looks like a Nicholson job. It also looks as if there is no flue stop below 4ft. pitch - which is to what I assume you refer....

#214
Organs in danger / Re: Harrison and Harrison at Charterhouse Chapel
July 18, 2011, 11:50:14 PM
Still on the subject of the H&H organ in the chapel at Charterhouse School, one wonders if the custodians of this instrument could be persuaded to restore what is a substantial survival of Harrisons' work. It is rare that an organ of this quality would subsequently become un-restorable. I wonder if it is not simply another case of changing trends - and a desire for a fresh start tonally as much as anything else.

Having said this, it does depend on exactly what was done to the instrument in 1979. On paper, there were few changes. On the Pedal Organ, I must admit that I would be inclined to keep the Principal and Fifteenth, as opposed to re-instating the Octave Wood. The Choir Organ, again, not quite as Arthur Harrison left it. The Nazard replaced a Dulciana, which itself may have replaced an Orchestral Bassoon (presumably at 16ft. pitch, as at Crediton Parish Church). On the G.O., it would not be difficult to reverse either of the (paper) changes: the substitution of an Octave Quint (2 2/3ft.) for the second Principal and the re-casting of the Mixture IV ranks to 17-19-flat 21-22, at CC. The Swell Organ, again on paper, appears to be untouched.

However, as I stated previously, what is never apparent from any written stop-list, is the nature and extent of revoicing which may have been carried-out on existing ranks, without the need to re-name them. This is something which may have to be established through Harrisons' records and order books.
#215
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 18, 2011, 11:33:18 PM
Quote from: David Pinnegar on July 18, 2011, 10:45:30 PM
Hi!

What a list - a most useful catalogue of landmarks.

The mention of delights in Trombes and unenclosed Tubas together with the problem of a dry acoustic makes Charterhouse at Godalming worth the mention as being a good example of this type of instrument in an acoustic well worthy of the instrument . . .

Best wishes

David P

You are welcome. I hope that it helps your enquirer.

It would be good to hear (and play) the Charterhuose instrument, if this were possible. Do you have any contact details for anyone who might be willing to allow me to do so, please?
#216
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 18, 2011, 11:14:32 PM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 16, 2011, 12:32:22 PM
... As for Albi, it's so mucked about with... the 1970s rebuild was a disaster. It's not in any way the same as it was after Moucherel rebuilt it all those years ago, the specification doesn't make sense (certain stops plain in the wrong place), some of the voicing is obviously neoclassical and the destruction of the Puget instrument (which was, I am told, of pilgrimage quality, right up there with St Ouen etc) also grates. At least St Maximin is largely as built, has never been romanticised, has never had quality romantic material destroyed, has never had obviously neoclassical-style voicing...

To be strictly accurate, there was no 1970s 'rebuild'. Schwenkedel of Strasbourg dismantled the old organ in 1971, with the intention of providing a new organ, which was to have been influenced by neo-Baroque thought. However, it soon became apparent that a considerable portion of the orginal instrument had survived; therefore, the plans changed substantially. On 3 May 1977, the contract for restoration by Bartoloméo Formenteli of Pedemonte, Italy was signed. The rebuild itself was not completed until 1981.

The scheme which was drawn up called for reconstruction of Moucherel's original instrument, but incorporating the changes and additions by the other builders who had worked on the organ, up until 1825. The original G.O. and Positif chests were restored, the others newly constructed in period style. A new console, also in period style, was provided, with original key compasses (although the Pédale was extended up to F', but with a French-style pedlboard) and new mechanical action.

In fairness, it has to be said that there were a few aspects of the scheme - or at least the re-interpretation of it - which came as a surprise to at least one player. In particular, the placement of the  Voix Humaine (new, copied from Moucherel) on the Bombarde manual , where it had never been in the organ's entire history, (nor would be on any other classical French organ). Furthermore, this meant that it was not located on the same clavier as the foundation stops which were always drawn with it in classical practice (8ft. Bourdon and 4ft.' Flûte). I It is highly probable that this was due to the influence of Xavier Darasse*, who was a consultant for the restoration project. It was his custom to avoid using flue stops with solo reeds. When one American organist asked for his advice on registering a Dialogue de Voix Humaine on this instrument, "...he had me draw the lone Voix Humaine of the Bombarde and accompany it on the Grand Orgue 8ft. Montre alone - no coupler, of course". §




* Xavier Darasse was born in Toulouse in 1934 and grew up in a musical family; his mother was also an organist. At the age of sixteen, he was admitted to the Conservatoire National de Paris where he won numerous awards, including first prize for Harmony and Counterpoint, Organ, Improvisation, and later first prize for Composition in the class of Olivier Messiaen. There followed a brilliant career as a performer, with concerts in Europe, Russia, the United States, Canada, and Japan. In 1966 he established the organ class at the Conservatoire de Toulouse and became the principal organiser of musical events in his city.

In 1976 he lost the use of his right arm in a traffic accident; tragically, this put an end to his career as an organist. Darasse then turned to composition and teaching. In 1985 he was appointed professor of the Organ class in the Conservatoire National Supérieur de Lyon, and in 1991 he became Director of the Conservatoire National de Paris. He was a very gentle person and exercised his talents in various disciplines: composition, teaching, expertise in organ building. He died in 1992.

Xavier Darasse also participated for several years in the Académies d'été de Saint Maximin, where he gave master-classes and recitals. In the 1972 concert, titled The Symphonic Turning Point , he performed works by Mendelssohn, Liszt and Franck on the Isnard organ.

See his obituary in The Independent, Saturday 5 December, 1992:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-xavier-darasse-1561709.html

§ Timothy Tikker; organist, composer and improvisor. He is currently College Organist at Kalamazoo College, Kalamazoo, MI.  He is also a DMA student with a major in Organ and Church Music, in the studio of Marilyn Mason at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor .

 

#217
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Documentary researcher seeking people enthusiastic about Pipe Organs
July 18, 2011, 09:52:37 PM

Here, as promised, is the copy of the list which I wrote for another board, regarding organs worth hearing (and recording), in the Greater London area.

Croydon Parish Church (H&H, IV/P); late Romantic, with a few more recent alterations.

Saint Giles, Cripplegate (Mander, III/P). The tutti is bright and clear on this English version of a neo-Classical organ. The organist is Anne Marsden Thomas.

If you desire a louder tutti (and perhaps one which is a little more reed-dominated), the following two instruments may be worth considering:

Saint Alban's, Holborn (Compton, III/P). This organ is widely regarded as the loudest church instrument in London. After many years of perfecting the art of constructing organs which were to be sited in chambers, Compton apparently found the transition to an open, west end site somewhat problematical. Apparently, at one point, thick wood baffles were installed around the pipework of the G.O., simply as a desperate measure to avoid listeners being plastered against the east wall of the church with their hair and general appearance looking as if they were testing a wind tunnel for British Aerospace.

Saint Luke's, Chelsea (Compton, III/P). This vast three clavier instrument is one of the most successful essays in the extension principle which is known to me. Compton's careful experimentation and thoughtful design (and inspired voicing) resulted in a large, colourful organ with a great personality. I doubt that this church would be expensive to hire, either. One caveat - it is a while since I last played this organ, so I do not know in what state it is currently maintained. The only malfunction which happened whilst I was playing for a service was that, on the luminous light-touch console, the Contra Posaune cyphered. I was able to persuade this stop to retire gracefully about three seconds prior to the start of Howells' Collegium Regale setting of the Nunc Dimittis. (For those who are unfamiliar with this work, a 32ft. reed at this point would be about as desirable as being trapped in a lift with a dead horse.)

Other organs within Greater London which you may wish to consider:

Saint Stephen, Walbrook (Hill/HN&B, III/P). This instrument is situated at the west end of this comparatively intimate church. However, the acoustic ambience is glorious. This building, designed by Sir Christopher Wren, may have been used as the prototye for Saint Paul's Cathedral - the one common architectural feature being a central dome (although the treatment is rather different to that at Saint Paul's). The organ is a fair sized three clavier instrument, basically Romantic in character. The full organ is quite powerful enough for its location - aided by the superb acoustics.

Saint Anne's, Limehouse (Gray & Davison, III/P) may be worth investigating, now that it has received a sympathetic restoration in 2006, at the skilled hands of William Drake. It still has the original console, but the tutti, which is largely dominated by G&D's superb Pedal and G.O. reeds (Grand Bombarde 16ft., with Posaune 8ft. and Clarion 4ft.), is breathtaking.

If you feel that you really must have a tutti containing H&H Trombe, these two instruments may be just what you are looking for:

The Temple Church (H&H, IV/P). Sir George Thalben-Ball was Organist and Choirmaster here for many years. This organ (installed after WWII, to replace the Rothwell instrument which became 'rebuilt' courtesy of the Luftwaffe) was originally constructed for the ballroom of Lord Glentanar's private residence, in Scotland. It is a large and colourful instrument - oh yes, is has Trombe at 8ft. and 4ft. on the G.O.

All Saints', Margaret Street (H&H, IV/P). This church is a fine example of the type of architecture favoured by the Tractarian movement. In this comparatively small building, Arthur Harrison installed a large four clavier instrument, replete with a 32ft. Double Open Wood on the Pedal Organ, a colourful, enclosed Choir Organ, a family of (enclosed) Trumpets at 16ft., 8ft. and 4ft. pitch on the G.O. and a thrilling Orchestral Trumpet 8ft. played from the Solo Organ. It was restored recently, again by Harrisons, who altered the composition of the mixture stops - including, I believe, re-instating the G.O. Harmonics.

For a brighter, clearer sound, you could try this instrument:

All Souls, Langham Place (Willis/H&H, IV/P). This large organ stands in the west gallery of this, the 'BBC' Church (so-called, because of its close proximity to Broadcasting House). It is generally used for the broadcast of the Daily Service, on British radio. The instrument is tonally very complete, spread over four claviers, with two 32ft. ranks on the Pedal Organ (one being a Contra Trombone), a Positive Organ, large G.O. and Swell and a colourful Solo Organ, culminating in an unenclosed Tuba and a Fanfare Trumpet. The only possible drawback is that the building possesses an acoustic ambience which makes the Royal Festival Hall sound warm and fluffy.

If you prefer something a little closer in sound to a 'Father' Willis organ, this may be worth considering:

Saint Augustine's, Kilburn (Willis/H&H, III/P). This moderately sized instrument has a fairly complete G.O. and Swell. However, the Pedal Organ (as was often the case with FHW) consists of only a handful of stops - although one is Willis' trademark Ophicleide - a veritable thunderbolt. The Choir Organ has seven registers, including a Clarinet. The Solo Organ has never been installed. The instrument is sited on the north side of this large edifice, designed by John Loughborough Pearson (who was also the architect for Truro Cathedral, in Cornwall).

One further organ:

Saint John's, Upper Norwood (Lewis, III/P). This fine instrument was restored sympathetically by Harrisons, a number of years ago. It is an excellent example of the work of T.C. Lewis and produces a magnificent sound in a reasonably favourable acoustic.

I hope that the above is of some use to you.

I have played, at some point, many of these instruments and, if you desire, I can probably provide a specification and further details of any or all of them.

Naturally, I am unable to state whether or not the relevant authorities for each building would grant permission to record - or, for that matter, whether the organs are of a sufficiently reliable standard to be used. Notwithstanding, I believe that most, if not all of these instruments are kept in good playing condition.

You are welcome to contact me by PM, if you should require further details.
#218
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Christchurch Priory organ
July 18, 2011, 09:08:32 AM
Quote from: Voix Cynique on July 18, 2011, 02:24:44 AM
Another thing I've griped about - well-known organbuilders with no websites! Glad to see Kenneth Jones has finally joined the 21st century (dare I call it the digital age?)... although it would appear, opening pages on individual organs, most have no information on them, only one has a specification (in PDF form - I'd prefer it to be in HTML on the website itself), one turned up a 404 Not Found. Is there a point putting up a website (or a section thereof) which has very little on it?

In fact, this website has been around for a while - but has not looked much different to this. Kenneth Jones himself has retired. It may be that the website will be re-launched in the near future.
#219
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Christchurch Priory organ
July 18, 2011, 01:45:19 AM
Quote from: Barry Williams on July 18, 2011, 01:29:27 AM
"Looks as though we are back on the DOA/Consultant issue again!"

As I understand it, and PCND may be able to confirm or explain, there was a 'consultant' appointed by the church who dictated exactly what was to be done and how.  When that proved unsuccessful, the church had to pay to put it all right.  There was a legacy or gift and that money was used for the purpose.

This is correct.

Quote from: Barry Williams on July 18, 2011, 01:29:27 AM
It seems at least possible that the 'consultant' might have aimed at the wrong target in his or her design.  I understand that the organ builder was instructed, by the church, to work according to the 'consultant'.  From what PCND has written I infer, possibly incorrectly, that the problems were anticipated by some folk yet dismissed by the 'consultant', but found ultimately, to be correct, at at significant cost to the church.

If I have got this wrong please, PCND, correct me.

No, you are correct. See my post above (July 17, 2011, 10:14:12 PM). I think that at that time, I was the only person in a position to be able to anticipate problems with and omissions from the scheme specified by the consultant. Contracts had not yet been signed, and it was only the fact that I had recently been the Assistant Organist of this church that allowed me to see the documents. I still have the letter which I received from the consultant concerned.

Quote from: Barry Williams on July 18, 2011, 01:29:27 AM
It would be interersting to know if the Diocesan Organs Adviser was involved in detail over this.  I doubt it, for once the faculty has been granted, many DOAs have no further contact - at least not until there is a further petition or formal request to the DAC for advice. ...

Barry Williams

I am not sure about this one. I cannot recall who was the DOA at the time. In any case, the consultant concerned was not the original choice. We began the process with a cathedral organist (who, for obvious reasons, I cannot name here); shortly afterwards this person resigned, due to pressure of work.
#220
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Christchurch Priory organ
July 18, 2011, 01:15:51 AM
Quote from: Brian Daniels on July 18, 2011, 12:03:04 AM
Looks as though we are back on the DOA/Consultant issue again!

Heavy tracker action has as much if not more to do with windchest design than tracker runs; important though these are. Long runs tend to induce excessive inertia rather than weight of touch. Unless of course there is so much friction at the terminations that the pallet spring rate has to be increased.

If what I read is correct I find myself asking the rhetorical question, 'If we can't get it right for a prestigious establishment like Christchurch Priory what hope have we elsewhere'?

Brian Daniels.

Thank you for this, Brian.

I recall seeing an article (with photographs) some years ago in Organists' Review, wich featured the Kenneth Jones organ in the Cathedral of the Madeleine, Salt Lake City. This instrument was constructed with mechanical action, and, despite being sited on the west gallery, had tracker runs at, I believe, seven different levels.

Here is a view of this instrument. Or at least, it would be, if the html code on this page did not keep changing itself, and adding characters to the link I copied.

Try this one: http://www.kennethjonesorgans.com/salt_lake_city.html
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