Organ matters - Organs matter!

Hi!

The AGM and autumn London meeting of EOCS is next Saturday.
http://www.eocs.org.uk/scripts/meetings.htm

Particularly interesting for Hauptwerk users are two members in particular talking that day. One talk and demonstration is about recent developments in Hautpwerk and the other is about "free phase" organs and examining whether Hauptwerk is the solution to this.

http://www.eocs.org.uk/ is the website (with a hidden section for members) and http://www.eocs.org.uk/scripts/appform.htm is the application form. I'm sure that if you communicate with Ron Tel: (01737) 844420 treasurer@eocs.org.uk beforehand, you'll be welcome to come and bring your form with you.

Best wishes

David P

Quote from: NonPlayingAnorak on October 24, 2010, 03:45:55 PM
Unfortunately, the song itself seems to be vaguely anti-religious, anti-Christian

. . . It's common knowledge that the Devil has all the best tunes . . . isn't it?

This is one reason why organs should be able to be enjoyed outside ecclesiatical surroundings. (For those who enjoy Religion, one might hope that if people enjoy the instrument then the call of the instrument might enable people to find christianity. I have remarked elsewhere however that historically Christianity has not been a brilliant advertisement for the power of Christs's teachings.

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0B0SwKpww is the experimental proof of the explanation at the start of
http://www.organmatters.co.uk/index.php?topic=224.0 and
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=emerson+unequal+temperament
is the practical result of an Unequal Temperament tuning in the theoretically "worst" keys

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

This morning the pianist and I  have been through the list of videos, annotating them properly with the composers, items and keys in use. Schumann, Liszt, Schubert and Chopin are represented among them and keys include B major, D flat major and F sharp major. Who would ever have thought these keys would be usable in anything except Equal Temperament?

Welcome to Bach's Well Tempered instrument in which the key adds to the expression.

The performances are exceptional and are a rare opportunity to hear these works so beautifully played.

Best wishes

David P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vbJxPhN3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nr4xw6wm8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BCzJbkiig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPLIanjtWlk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8L4Cvdv9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCmXb49S7rQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7-WzQhPlQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIQH9ZSDQNk and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGJAzBK5x84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtjS-hAqu4 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poYNFloS8JY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9RmzEwVD28

Quote from: barniclecompton on October 20, 2010, 04:05:47 AM
Had a fantastic attendance of 462 today for Robert Wolfe

WOW! That's great! Very encouraging.

How many classical organ concerts can draw that crowd? Carlo used to . . .

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

I hope others might comment about when to tune - but to be honest I have never had problems with flues - it's only the flue/reed differential that causes real headaches.

Organs are quite easy to tune by ear as the beats are constant and clear but
http://www.korg.co.uk/products/tuners/ot120/tu_ot120.asp
is extremely useful, especially if you'd like to experiment with unequal temperaments, which will give you a great deal of satisfaction. There is also a programme called Tune Lab 97 which runs nicely on laptops, but the Korg is pocketable and robust.

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

I tuned a piano for a concert the other night specifically to trial what romantic composers could be doing with effects of temperament in far keys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vbJxPhN3Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nr4xw6wm8c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74BCzJbkiig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPLIanjtWlk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8L4Cvdv9E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCmXb49S7rQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7-WzQhPlQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIQH9ZSDQNk and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGJAzBK5x84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtjS-hAqu4 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poYNFloS8JY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9RmzEwVD28

There are problems with the piano action which are offputting to the performer and prevent him from giving of his best. Don't be put off by odd tuning - does it express something? Was it intended to be heard that way? There is possibly one note repeated in one piece that sounds very odd, but not again. Perhaps it's my tuning - although odd as it doesn't repeat elsewhere, perhaps the harmony, perhaps the piano which might do such a thing on loud notes.

Hope it's interesting and hope you enjoy it.

I'd like to be doing things like this with a good organist on a temperament equipped organ . . .

Best wishes

David P

 ;) The confusion is hardly surprising as Edinburgh has been in the news with a new organ in recent years at the Metropolitan Cathedral. 32fts and a Septieme too . . . !

Long live the Scottish pipe fanciers!

Best wishes

David P

French Victor Gonzalez home Pipe organ for sale

Marcus Perrot writes:
Let me introduce myself. I am the son of Jean Perrot, musicologist and organist, who recently passed away.

In 1948, my father asked the manufacturer Victor Gonzalez to build a home pipe organ. My father was a friend of André Marchal who participated to the specification of the organ to fit the neo-classical aesthetics initiated by André Marchal, Norbert Dufourcq and Victor Gonzalez.
Victor Gonzalez built this organ starting from a Mutin organ and resized, enhanced and transformed to the new specifications and location.
There are parts from Mutin and Cavaillé Coll inside reused by Gonzalez.

I contact you because this organ is currently for sale. While we are trying to find an institution or an individual in France for purchasing this organ, we are also considering the international.
Could you let me know whether there is a way or opportunities to sell this organ outside of France ?

Specifications:
·    Builder: Victor Gonzalez
·    Date: 1948
·    Location: between Paris and Beauvais - France 
·    16 stops
·    15 ranks
·    2 manuals
·    pedal board
·    Mechanical Key and Stop Action.
·    220V blower
·    Great: Montre 8', Flute à fuseau 8', Prestant 4', Doublette 2', Plein jeu 3 r 
·    Swell: Bourdon 8', Cymbale 2 r, Quarte 2', Nazard 2.2/3, Tierce 1.3/5, Dulcianne 8', Flute 4', Trompette 8'. 
·    Pedal: Soubasse 16', Bourdon 8', Flute 4'. 
·    Couplers: Swell/Great, Swell/Swell, Great/Great. Great to Pedal, Swell to Pedal. 
·    Dimensions in inches: Height: 118, Width: 104, Depth: 118

Below are some samples of this organ played by André Marchal during one of his visit at our father's home:
·    Dialogue sur les grands jeux (N. de Grigny): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Grigny.mp3
·    Prélude et fugue en Fa# mineur (D. Buxtehude): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Buxt_2.mp3
·    Choral « Orne-toi, chère âme » (JS. Bach): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Bach_1.mp3
·    Prélude et fugue en La mineur (JS. Bach): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Bach_2.mp3
·    Communion de l'office de la Pentecôte (Ch. Tournemire): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Tournemire_2.mp3
·    Final de la 4éme Symphonie – Extrait (L. Vierne): http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres/playlist/182745231128066808/Orgue_Gonzalez/Final_4eme_Synphonie_Viene_extrait.mp3
Best regards,
Marcus Perrot
Email: marcus.perrot@free.fr
Tel. 33 9 53 04 40 28

Hi!

Firstly I'd like to thank the Chaplin of Stowe School on a visit elsewhere for cracking a joke to which he expected no-one to laugh, just to break the ice, and then proceed irrelevantly to the joke. He's obviously a scale model enthusiast*, and in character of scale models the joke bears greater wisdom than was apparent.

One of my sons relates how an eccentric maths beak was relating to his class the advantages of hyperbolic rather than parabolic mirrors. A member of the class asked "Sir, how is this relevant to the Curriculum?". "It isn't", he replied, "so if you don't want to know, you can walk out". At least half the class did.

There seems to be a sad gulf between those who send their children to school to learn to pass exams, and those who send their children to school to be educated, and those children who likewise go to school with those intentions of their parents consciously or subsconsciously engrained. Those who merely pass exams come out of schools, strings of them, only fit for parcel tying job fodder.

There were three pieces of string in a pub who were very thirsty for a good pint. The first piece of string went up to the bar to order drinks but the barman turned him away telling him that the bar did not serve pieces of string. Annoyed, the second piece of string went up to the bar and indignantly demanded to be served. The barman calmly turned him away pointing to a notice "Management regrest that pieces of string are not served here."

The third piece of string took his lower fibres and wildly frayed them out, then tying the rest of him into an unrecognisable knot. He went up to the bar to be served and the barman said to him "But you're a piece of string aren't you?". Not taking this for an answer the string replied "No. Sorry - I'm a frayed knot".

The charming truth of this story is that people who learn how to pass exams may do very well in getting jobs, but that depends on the bar man. The people who can manage to transform themselves into something beyond their own string of qualifications will pass exams that others won't be able to pass and get to places they'd never imagine.

So it is with organs and organists. If we can transform our instrument into something so very exciting that people have to sit up and take notice, then the future of organ preservation and pipe organ building crafts will be assured. Strings of ordinary instruments and ordinary musicians don't excite and they don't jump the bar.

It's for this reason that I urge anyone near enough to a recital by Jeremy Filsell
http://www.organrecitals.com/1/recitals.php?organist=jerfil
next month to move heaven and earth to go to hear him. His enthusiasm and sheer joy of playing is so unbounding that no-one can go away from one of his recitals without knowing that the Organ is the King of Instruments. He's a great inspiration.

It's also for this reason that I have urged anyone making an organ simulation with Hauptwerk and loudspeakers to make their instruments astoundingly superb and not simply settle for standard hi-fi systems that you can go and hear at home.** I annoyed people on the Hauptwerk forum because I didn't give an answer as to what to do to achieve that and instead laid out pointers to thought.

There is no _one_ answer to how to tie a piece of string, but the Frayed Knot thought very hard about it, and thinking can be very painful, as is the physical process of dissection of ones strands into many fibres and contorting oneself into a tight knot. When one does so, extraordinary ideas are squeezed out like drops of water from a damp string :)

I'f you've come from elsewhere, welcome to the land of the Frayed Knot and the superlative focussing powers of Hyperbolic mirrors.

Best wishes

David P.


*Scale model enthusiasts may find more Stoic jokes:
http://www.scale-models.co.uk/jokes/2728-three-pieces-string.html

**Sometimes I suspect that I'm not unique in wondering whether people are so used to hearing music through their hi-fi systems that they no longer know what a real instrument sounds like. I have half a feeling that modern pianos of brands starting with the letters Y, S or B are liked by people because they think they  sound like what a piano should sound like based upon what they hear through their speakers. You might enjoy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vbJxPhN3Y in contrast

Quote from: revtonynewnham on October 11, 2010, 10:57:04 PMNo - just as the data that is contained in a computer memory/hard drive is often of more value than the machine itself (and the machine is useless without an operating system and application programmes), so the human being is more than just the amalgam of chemicals and water that chemically constitute the body.  The key "ingredient" being that intangible soul, which I think is God-given, and imparted at the moment of conception, plus the ever-growing contents of our brains - which unlike computer data, isn't to easy to transfer en mass to another storage medium

Hi!

I think we'd all agree with the above. What worries me is whether something happens within the brain beyond the hardware which is the soul . . . and which is eternal? When people lose brain function, it's very difficult to see, let alone imagine.

The reason for my raising this thread again was a report this morning of the research in Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience which suggests that teenagers are desensitised to violence after having played violent computer games. Hardly a surprise, is it, when one considers the premis that I made at the beginning of this thread that the brain follows and prefers thought patterns followed before, especially when those thought patterns have been reinforced by pleasure of some sort or "success"?

A mantra that I have learned to follow is that if you want to look at the macrocosm, then look at the microcosm. In the microcosm there will be all the components that extrapolate into the macrocosm and being on a scale for analysis, it will show you how the macrocosm works.

This is why, although looking specialised, anyone who enjoys air travel will find
http://www.amazon.co.uk/History-Aviation-Alderney-Edward-Pinnegar/dp/1848689810 interesting and it's following the process of the production of sound that I take my ideas on the best design principles of loudspeakers. Putting sound through a process of separating out the raisins from the cake using a filter of cotton wool doesn't seem to me to be the most efficient way to transmit the cake.

What's the point of this thread to organists?

My organ teacher used to say to me, when I had made the umpteenth attempt to play something and got it wrong again, "don't repeat getting it wrong - practice getting it right". Doing otherwise only results in practicing getting it wrong.

This is the power that the simple rules of brain function have, and understanding how to work with those rules enables us to do inconceivably complicated things.

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

Following Paul's test I have processed the reverb tail to remove the diminution:
http://www.organmatters.co.uk/unreverb.wma

It's very strange as clearly there was no pitch change in reality but when I first heard it on the recording the perception of a pitch change seemed striking.

Best wishes

David P


Postscript - here's the spectral analysis:

I wonder if the phenonomen happens on account of progressive loss of high frequencies?

The first 0.3 seconds should be discounted in terms of analysis as level processing starts after around then. It looks as though there are spikes 0.1 seconds apart which suggests a distance of around 100ft. It looks as though, starting with the peak at around 1 second, there is a negative phase peak at 1.8, a positive phase peak at around 2.6 and a negative peak at around 3.4. Is the length of St Maximin basilica around 800feet?

Dear Paul

Thanks - most intriguing - I wonder how many of us think they can hear a pitch shift - as I certainly thought I did first time I heard it and it's been good to find that I'm not unique in this. Has anyone any explanation for what is going on?

Best wishes

David P

Dear Eric

BRILLIANT! So that's where the Rufatti ended up! THANKS so much for giving news of that one! It was a really special instrument. I had contemplated encouraging a school in south east England to purchase it for their concert hall, but could not mobilise support in time. Shipping would have cost a fortune.

From memory it had a tracker action and an electric stop action that wasn't working. Tonally it's interesting as it has open toe voicing - possibly a challenge to have put into a new acoustic but clearly they have succeeded.

It would be great if one or two of the pipe organ builders on this forum might be able to tell us a bit about the complications that open toe might raise. . . . ?

Purchase College had around 5 instruments, as far as I recall, with diminishing enthusiasm for them. It's good to know that the Rufatti has gone somewhere where it will be appreciated at last, but wouldn't it be amazing if a top player might be able to reinvigorate the enthusiasm that clearly there was once at Purchase?

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

Conn speakers - I haven't experienced them directly but imagine that they might absorb higher harmonics, so may well be OK for sythesized flute . . .? Certainly diapasons are critical . . . and for general Hauptwerk use one can imagine that they might be too specialised for a generality of stops . . .

I have been looking this evening at Tannoy theory. Interestingly at the 1kHz x-over frequency, the woofer and tweeter are connected out of phase, and at 1kHz this corrects the time lag from the tweeter to the woofer. Olson apparently contradicted the received opinion that the ear was phase independant and asserted that the phase of harmonics mattered. So if you've got a treble C at around 500 Hz, the second harmonic will be right in the crossover between the two, and may survive OK but the 3rd and 4th Harmonics will be out of phase. Doug - you might have seen my experiment showing the criticality of this part of the spectrum to diapasons - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vii521NGSos

It's intriguing that the Diapason as prime organ stop seems to have something elusively special about it to make electronic reproduction a little bit critical . . . Pipe organ builders need not worry!

(Whilst writing, Paul - thanks so much for your contribution and measurement on the reverb phenonomen - it's a real curiosity isn't it!?)

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

It's often difficult to explain the effects of unequal temperaments to people who haven't experienced them and sometimes often who simply have heard that unequal temperaments have "bad" keys. In fact no keys are bad - they are just different. Composers exploited those differences.

I have done a video with another approach to explaining the differences between the keys in terms of resonances or harmonic accordance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz0B0SwKpww

I hope it's useful and look forward to further ideas or comments . . .

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

When popping into this forum I often see that "Guests" are logged on as well as a few "Registered Users". It really would be great if "Guests" might feel welcome to join the forum and add to discussions, and generally provoke greater interest and enthusiasms in the King of Instruments.

Whilst enthusiasm can be somewhat suppressed elsewhere, here we really do want to celebrate the joys that organs can bring . . . Do you know of some interesting instruments? Some "Must Go To" recitals? If not, the organ might as well enjoy a quiet death . . . but that's not what organs are all about . . . !

Are you giving a recital somewhere? Please don't be shy. Please post details . . .

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

In the barn I have a gem of a classic speaker that I'm not using at the moment and would be happier being useful to someone. It's the classic and highly desirable Altec Lansing Voice of the Theatre design as copied meticulously and made by the reputed PA speaker firm TOA in Japan.

http://www.audioworld.com/stat/pr/0305/28.altec.lansing.legacy.a7.loudspeaker.shtml

I don't want as much as $4000 for it! . . . but an appropriate donation would be helpful.

It's similar to


It has classic jack plug inputs to a built in 30Watt amplifier - on account of the extreme efficiency of the units, quite enough to fill a substantial space. It's not my favourite speaker but it is extremely good and is certainly good enough for outside or in large spaces. They were and are legendary speakers for a reason . . . !

http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/altec-lansing-speakers-090106/ gives more information

One review:

QuoteWeaknesses:
None that I know of - but jealous people would argue that the horns are harsh or that they are not very good overall speakers.

Ignore haters - they only want to get their hands on a pair. If you can find a pair at ANY price - get them!

These speakers hold their own and no current speaker or vintage speaker can out perform these at ANY price!

Just one of these speakers would do better than pairs or multiples of others . . .

If any one is interested, please PM or phone me 01342 850594

Best wishes

David P

Quote from: revtonynewnham on October 15, 2010, 02:53:03 PMInteresting.  the pitch change is noticeable.  I wonder if there's an air current in the building causing some sort of doppler-type effect  . . .
Is it audible listening to the organ live?

Dear Tony

:-) In the old days we would have thought it was just tape wow . . .

I think it probably is audible live and I'm thinking that it's on account of the shockwave of sound actually travelling cleanly from one end of the building to the other and back, so passing in different directions past one's ears or the microphone. This is an organ on a west wall, with a straight bounce from end to end. Were the organ to be in the middle somewhere, the sound-front would go in both directions at once and one would hear the two concurrent waves in both directions simulataneously and merged.

Perhaps this is why the St Maximin acoustic is so special?

Paul - have you any ideas on this?

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

Here's a practical demonstration of the tonal areas of organ stops which can be affected by speaker anomalies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vii521NGSos

Best wishes

David P