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What would you do with £25M?

Started by David Pinnegar, January 08, 2012, 02:00:01 PM

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David Pinnegar

Dear All

This thread might be split into two, for both atheists and believers in the two segregated sections, and see where differences in philosophy might lead to.

With all interested in organs, I'm sure that an organ somewhere might feature in the £25M plan . . . and, you never know, God can be particularly beneficent to those who can be relied on to do good things with "his" resources.

The inspiration for this thread came yesterday whilst passing by the house of some friends we had lost contact with, knowing that the husband had had a heart problem a few years ago and hearing nothing more. Whilst passing I decided to drop in . . . and with horror saw that the house had been virtually rebuilt, and with major earthworks and york stone flag terracing and entrance . . . and thought that something dreadful had happened as that's the sort of thing that only happens when new people move in. . .

Luckily they were fine and still there . . . but had had their house rebuilt. Coming inside to coffee I was greeted by a kitchen straight off the drawing board with all modern fashionable attributes all off a TV cooking programme, centre section with marble top, designer fruit squeezers and coffee makers, high temperature water for making tea or coffee on tap, Bose speakers and integrated sound system throughout the house, home cinema with 10ft screen etc etc etc, a grand piano in the corner of the living room that no-one knows how to play . . .

And I thought "would my wife and I do that?" if my lifepath and a few million or tens of million pounds became accidentally entangled?

What would you do?

You never know, "be careful what you want, as sure enough you'll get it" . . . so answering this thread might be the start of enabling you to achieve what you would really like to achieve in life . . . and believing that, I'm starting the thread in the believer's corner . . . !

If anyone wants to kick the ball rolling in the parallel atheist's corner that would be great. . .

Best wishes

David P


Pierre Lauwers

I have no taste for luxury, and would change nothing to my way of life, save for some books
and CDs more. But I think I would start an organ-building workshop with two aims:
1)- To re-visit the Casparini and the thuringian baroque styles.
2)- To re-visit the Post-romantic organ style, in a multicultural way (what else expect from a belgian,
cramped between Germany, France, England and the Netherlands ?) with pneumatic action (and any
electronic device limited to an external PC, so that the very fragile electronics would not remain in the church
when not in use, while the many updates could be done easier).
There is something that could be done in both those ways. The Casparini organ of Görlitz remains a myth that
deserves some kind of reconstitution; the baroque organs of the J-S Bach's epoch and area are still partly there,
while the Neo-baroque period preffered simplified versions of the northern organs, so that there is no proper
Bach-organ outside Thüringen and (part of) Sachsen plus the Brandenburg (by a builder from Sachsen, J.Wagner, who
I suspect might have been trained partly in Thüringen as well); the works of Arthur Harrison, Lewis, H-J, Willis III,
Stahlhuth, Oscar Walcker, Koulen, Kerkhoff (a belgian builder), The later Goll firm (after Friedrich's thus), Gebrüdern Link,
E-M Skinner, among others, lend to think the Orgelbewegung stopped an immensely creative period that still had
to present a vast synthesis of styles.

The way to Vegas please ?

Best wishes,
Pierre

Holditch

Ah, one of those "what would I do if?" questions!

I would pay off my mortgage (approx 40k) , rebuild my garage and give the rest away, maybe start a business with some of it (not decided about that one?)

I already have a pipe organ in my house and access to several pipe organs at local churches that at play at, so no additional expenditure on organs required. Maybe, slightly selfishly, I would have the organ moved from a local redundant church to my current Sunday morning gig (faculty allowing!)

I am tired that the world seems to be focused around money. If you have enough to live day to day, then surely that is enough everything else is just vulgar

Marc
Dubois is driving me mad! must practice practice practice

KB7DQH

Pierre--  I suppose you couldn't find room in a (big?) corner of your workshop for the storage of complete or incomplete organs, parts, and especially, individual ranks of pipework from instruments otherwise unusable, categorized as to  "voice", speaking wind pressure, sound pressure level at rated speaking wind pressure, etc... so as to make these available "at cost" to organ builders either in the "other side of the shop" or anyone else on planet earth ???  And for organ building firms storing similar inventory a central database including the same information about their available material?

I suppose first one would need to develop a standard of measurement of existing pipework characteristics and then develop a standard database format this could be entered into so the information could be shared... and thus allow for the more complete reuse of existing pipework in the creation of new instruments or more appropriate rehousing of complete instruments, in a manner which would remove 99% of the "guesswork" ???  (I am thinking about a standard not unlike Thiele-Small Parameters used to describe the performance of loudspeakers :o ;)

Quote...... the Orgelbewegung stopped an immensely creative period that still had
to present a vast synthesis of styles.

And I am of the opinion this "division" of organ-building "camps" combined with the electronic reproduction of music may have had a great deal to do with why the organ as a musical instrument is in the state that it is in today. 

Reversing this trend likely will require expenditures far in excess of the figure currently being discussed,
so if your "organ shop" has been paid for out of "your 25M" Then I could spend mine as follows:

The formation of a foundation which would fund organ restoration and rehousing efforts with the intent on wherever possible to preserve and protect instruments in situ, and as a last resort provide  for emergency removal and storage of whole instruments in the event no other option for saving the instrument is possible.   

Half of the funds would be devoted to the operation of the foundation with the balance managed much in the manner of a perpetual endowment...  Upon inception this should permit an immediate disbursement of a significant amount required to fully fund the restoration of the Midmer-Losh opus 5550, installed in Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City, New Jersey, USA...  The purchase and restoration of the
Tre' se Nom de Jesus Cathedral in Montreal, Canada, which should ensure that Canada's largest pipe organ will have a home... This building could likely be converted into something like the Casavant-Freres Organ Museum... a place where  redundant Casavant pipe instruments could be relocated and housed... and enjoyed by public audiences...
with the facility likely maintained by the Royal Canadian College of Organists... or another competent organization if the RCCO declines...
One would similarly supply Oklahoma University with sufficient funds to complete their installation of Moller opus 5819...  The remainder to be disbursed on a case-by-case basis ;D as funds availability would allow...

As such the figure mentioned in the subject title would merely serve as "seed money" to get an organization up-and-running in a fairly short amount of time, and a big part of the foundation's activity would be seeking funding from other foundations and private funding sources  world-wide, to continue the work of the foundation indefinitely, or until such a foundation is no longer required to ensure the King of Instruments, remains the King of Instruments...

We naturally would be organized  a tax-exempt, non-profit corporation, so if you feel like contributing to this topic feel free to support this hypothetical foundation ;) :) :D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8)

Eric
KB7DQH



The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

David Pinnegar

#4
:-)

I thought that this would start some interesting lines of thought and I hope that for that reason others might join in and continue to do so with enthusiasm.

In the particularly stockbroker belt of South East England, and this may not be unique save perhaps in density, we are significatly exposed to a culture focussing on little more than the signs of material success which people seem to love to gather around them to say to others "we've arrived". Often accompaniing such mentality is a world in which there is nothing else, nor no-one else, and contrasts sharply with the wider natural world with which we are having increasingly to come to terms and is described whether through evolutionary or intelligent design described by "the force that brings order out of disorder" and about which people without contact with christianity or other faith appear to have little idea.

In the days of Benjamin Henry Latrobe, the Moravians considered that their future ministers should have the widest possible and best education, which is why the Latrobe brothers were sent away from Fulneck in Yorkshire to Niesky in Saxony to the Moravian school . . . at the age of seven. Whilst that is rather extreme in the context of modern opinion, a depth of education including history of art and architecture going back to the renaissance in my view does bring a deeper understanding of the wholeness and unity of mankind in contrast merely to the divisions of mankind that one observes in the course of general history.

Music also brings such ideas together, as expressed for instance in Daniel Baremboim's Israeli-Palestinian orchestra. It's beginning to be common ground too that musical instruction improves the intellect in other areas of academic life.

So what might be on my shopping list might be

       
  • finding ways to raise understandings beyond mere material advancement
  • fund at least one scholarship at a school known for cultural depth,
  • fund the rebuild of an inspirational organ I have in mind at a school and purchase and install an instrument of a different character http://www.pipeorgans.eu/en/pipeorgans/%282%29Oberlinger-52-III-P in addition so that all organ tastes are satisfied and the original instrument can remain preserved
  • I know an organ builder whose ambition is to build a really large romantic instrument - finding a venue I'd love to fund his ambition. He'd also like to build a large classical instrument and I'm aware of at least one acoustic which would be a fine setting for a copy of St Maximin
  • fund a second organ at Cranleigh School in equal temperament so that the Mander there can remain in Unequal Temperament
  • start a programme of wider music teaching at state schools,
  • take a portable but inspirational organ into schools or other public places where people might be inspired,
  • do something to heighten the profile of the harpsichord at schools and music schools,
  • and of course I have other associated projects in mind associated with what I started 30 years ago http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv46YsUQAcM where historic parkland of cultural importance is endangered by a farmer, possibly purchase another local building to start a music school with particular emphasis on live performance, written music being merely a guide to permitted improvisation, "orchestral" playing of the piano concentrating on dynamics and phrasing with tutor in mind, and effect of temperament and tuning, possibly providing facilities for musical instrument construction, and provide a better access to allow increased use for concerts and educational opportunities,
  • possibly fund an artist and a musician in residence . . .
  • utilise a proportion of funds as investment in order to ensure sustainability of such projects into the future and
  • utilise a proportion of funds arising from such investment to sponsor up and coming younger people of vision.
One has also a conflict between funding art with a specifically enlightening spirit in mind for the relief of the mental poverty of those suffering affluenza and the relief of material poverty leading to starvation and physical distress. Perhaps finding a means of addressing both issues together is important, but one must also look at how something can catalyse something else.

Politically one has two choices. On Facebook I find it frustrating to see people reading and quoting The Guardian because it gives free net access rather than the arguably more neutral content of The Times and as a result one sees infliltration of leftist propaganda. Leftist socialism is lovely in theory but the USSR demonstrated that it doesn't work well, and if it does at all, only with great pain. The problems are that (1) when people have the thinking done for them, they can exist within the framework merely by obeying rules, effectively operating only as robots (2) collective provision and kindness bestowed by the wide umbrella of the State or beneficence of a dictatorship can only be administered by force . . . as we see graphically with beatings in Tahrir Square . . . Nazi Germany, the world of Chairman Mao, Saddam Hussein, Gadaffi, Burmha . . .

Free will can only provide for others by way of the monetary freedoms of capitalism but with the significant proviso (absent in capitalism ruled and fuelled by materialism) that the concepts of Christianity, (not the religion) but the commandment to Love thy God and thy neighbour as oneself, are encompassed within the common consciousness.

If we don't educate broadly with such concepts in mind, then we can expect only Orwellian divisions, wars, robotic behaviours, supressions represions and totalitarian politics.

I'm aligned with Pierre in encouraging organ building both for the intellectual enhancement that organ playing provides supremely, as well as giving a high profile and gaining respect for the sort of places where organs are that have a key role in society in reaching to heaven beyond the realms of merely earthly materialism and noise.

These ideas are no doubt a rather motley group and rather clumsily, even inadequately, expressed for which I apologise . . .

I chose the amount under discussion deliberately to be more than that necessary merely to do just one or one or two things but significantly less than that necessary to put anything widely to rights.

I wonder if materialist capitalism merely goes the wrong way because people work perhaps for the sake of obtaining money per se rather than with any specific intention or vision of what to do with it. It becomes an end in itself rather than a tool to achieve something else.


For that reason perhaps this thread might be usefully inspirational . . . ?


Best wishes

David P

David Pinnegar

Hi!

I do hope that others, or even existing contributors, will expand on this thread. If people don't throw forward ideas nor help to refine the ideas of others then little in this world can progress . . .

There must be lottery winners "out there" who haven't the faintest clue what to do with their winnings who we might be able to inspire to do something and, even better, something interesting!

Why should "investment advice" merely be the domain of Mammon?

Isn't it time that the church started sowing seeds in financially abundant areas of the population?

Best wishes

David P

revtonynewnham

Hi

I'd build a new church building for my church - with full concert facilities and a good pipe organ - probably a rescued redundant instrument of which there are a number in the area.

Every Blessing

Tony

David Pinnegar

Quote from: revtonynewnham on January 09, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
I'd build a new church building for my church - with full concert facilities and a good pipe organ - probably a rescued redundant instrument of which there are a number in the area.

Dear Tony

That's really great! And hope the prayers for this work . . .

But what would you do with the extra £23M ?

I was a little wicked in setting the amount of this dream amount in setting it to be really enough to make quite a difference possibly in multiple directions. If we can stretch our imaginations, in this thread I'm seeking to stretch the imagination of mega-lottery winners and the semi-superich, the old fashioned level of millionaires rather than billionaires, who might be reading such a thread and wondering what they might do with their lives.

Can organs be part of it? Can organs really make a difference? Possibly all of us might think that they can. How? And with what resources necessary?

Best wishes

David P

revtonynewnham

Hi

I doubt there'd be that much left, as I would want to include long-term funding for maintenance, etc.  Then I know several Christian mission organisations that need financial help.  A small amount would provide my retirement housing, etc (again complete with an organ or two!).

Every Blessing

Tony

David Pinnegar

Dear Tony

Great! Perhaps I'd want also to buy an ailing prep school, ensure that Greek and Latin were encompassed, and offer bursaries and possibly set up instrument teaching annexes for local state schools with the contemplation of starting orchestras.

Perhaps the point of this thread is that organs in places on the continent have State assistance but not in England, leaving organists with big aspirations (is anyone's organ ever big enough :-) ???) and often with musical ideas wider then their instruments, but little funding.

But if lottery winners and otherwise the have-yachts have inspiration, for the reasons outlined in my post above which probably broke political taboos, I question seriously whether we need to devolve responsibilities to big government to administer. Smaller focussed projects instigated by people with the means to do so can express themselves with great individuality, greater benefits and sow seeds of inspiration beyond singular imaginations.

If people can find a habit to think big and wide, when opportunities come their way, they will be equipped to respond rather than merely buying their new kitchen, their yacht, Rolls Royce and electronic gates imprisoning their minds in their villas in the south of France.

Has anyone more ideas? Can we cause lottery winners to find interest here? Can organs capture the imagination and inspire?

Best wishes,

David P

KB7DQH

#10
In light of recently discovering the following article

http://larouchepac.com/node/20259

I thought it prudent to revisit this discussion...

Obviously  a "state-assisted" solution in light of current events is out of the question.  However "non-state free-enterprise" certainly has its appeal...  Discussions can eventually lead to inevitability
if properly (or maybe a better word could be "promptly" ??? ).... propagated.

I think back to my social-studies classes in High School, in the early 1980's, my teacher having served in Europe whilst enlisted in the United States Air Force, taking a German wife, and revisiting the continent often, and taking hundreds of slide photographs which would be featured in his lectures...

One must remember at the time the Solidarity movement was just getting going in Poland at the time, the Soviet Union very much alive, and discussions along the lines of "what would happen if..."
I never imagined within my lifetime that one of the scenarios suggested in the classroom discussion, would, in fact play out just as described :o 8) with Poland's economic conversion followed by the reunification of Germany and the eventual collapse  of the Soviet system... and following that the formation of the European Union... 

What I have proposed is a form of "Marshall Plan"... With the idea that with additional resources the program could necessarily expand into areas subsequently brought to the fore...

To some extent this process exists in the "new world" with the preservation of and gradual rebuilding of the Classical Music Infrastructure seen in recent years, especially within my local geographic area,
with the construction of the Watjen Concert Organ (C. B. Fisk opus 114) and preservation of the First United Methodist Church building, (by a land developer :o  8) ;) ;) )   and the organ housed within... 

For those unfamiliar, the  cost of  the  previously mentioned instrument installed within the Seattle Symphony's recently constructed concert facility was paid entirely by one Craig Watjen, who was at one time one of the principals at Microsoft...  (Yup... Some of that "Windows" money paid for a pipe organ :o ;D

It remains to be seen how much of the "one percent" will adopt the Carnegie/Bates philosophy of spending a third of one's life getting as much education as one can, spending the next third making as much money as one can, and the last third giving it all away for the benefit of Society as a whole...

I know, one shouldn't "start vast projects with half-vast ideas" so the purpose here would be to see if one could start...  vast projects with Vast ideas ;)

Eric
KB7DQH

The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

pcnd5584

Quote from: revtonynewnham on January 09, 2012, 06:46:15 PM
Hi

I'd build a new church building for my church - with full concert facilities and a good pipe organ - probably a rescued redundant instrument of which there are a number in the area.

Every Blessing

Tony

How about the Cavaillé-Coll from the Parr Hall, Warrington? It is currently for sale; offers between 1.6 and 2 million sterling - to include re-location (but without Kirsty and Phil) and restoration.

And, for that price, I would want a mini-bar as well....
Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

pcnd5584

#12
As far as the 'If I had £25 million' goes, I think that I would wish to start a fund (perhaps something along the lines of that which Andrew Carnegie instigated) and provide grants for the restoration and rebuilding of organs in churches and concert halls throughout England.

Those wishing to benefit from this money would need to prepare a subtantial submission - much along the lines of that required by the Heritage Lottery Fund - and prove:
a) that the instrument was worthy of retention
b) that the work proposed was in sympathy with the style of the organ
c) the instrument in its restored state would be used for the benefit of as many who wished to use it as possible - within
    the limitations of demands on the building and reasonable strictures by the incumbent musicians.

Unlike the Heritage Lottery Fund commission, I would not insist on a mechanical action and an attached console, as a matter of course. Each instrument and its surroundings would be considered on an individual basis.

Oh, and I would also pay off my mortgage (140k currently....) - and that of a couple of my friends. After that, I would buy another house, rent my current property out.

And I would contribute a fair sum to the restoration and rebuilding of my 'own' church organ.

If there were any change after that, a modest (but not claustrophoblc) apartment on Prinsengracht , Amsterdam - or possibly on the Ile de la Cité, Paris, might be rather nice.


Pierre Cochereau rocked, man

KB7DQH

QuoteIn the days of Benjamin Henry Latrobe, the Moravians considered that their future ministers should have the widest possible and best education, which is why the Latrobe brothers were sent away from Fulneck in Yorkshire to Niesky in Saxony to the Moravian school . . .

Funny you mention the Moravians... The Moravians were the first institution in what would later become the United States of America to have organs built and installed in their churches... And some of these instruments survive to this day...

Eric
KB7DQH
The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

revtonynewnham

I really must make the efrort to go and have a look at Fulneck.  I understand that there's a nice Snetzler organ somewhere in the village - and it's the home of a famous English organist.

Every Blessing

Tony

David Drinkell

It's said that in Labrador there's a Moravian Church with an organ dating from the time of Bach.  Labrador is part of this Diocese in Anglican terms, but the Moravians were early missionaries in that vast and (still) remote area and remain a strong presence today.

David Pinnegar

#16
Dear Tony

Firstly welcome back . . . your absense has been as if you have been to the other side of the moon and back and I'm sure all would wish to echo a congratulation on your safe splashdown . . .

More generally, one of my sons has criticised my aspirations saying that I should be more intending involvement in the relief of physical sufferings . . .

My response to my son's rebuke is that the organ is a focus and an inspiration which is capable of enthusing and is capable of leading more people towards the centres of

and from which then flows greater generosity of spirit and material wealth flowing outwards from people's good fortune.

Beleivers and true Atheists are probably alike: believers probably do things because God would like them to do it whilst Atheists can be motivated to do things because there's no-one else to do them. The latter can be better than believers as some believers think they can sit back and expect God to do it for them! :-) But there are many who are neither believers nor atheists who have not been introduced to the teachings of civilisation who are no more motivated nor comprehending than copulating amoebae in the sea . . . 

In looking at what one might do with a good fortune crossing one's path, where self-indulgence enters the equation  there is an uncomfortable relationship between it and the following of a passion leading to example and excellence and wider benefit . . . or the sort of self comforting self indulgence which makes it "more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven than to enter the eye of the needle".

Coming down a hill from a village on a mountain behind Genoa a friend pointed out to me a man looking like a  tramp. He had been a very "rich" man. He had had cash to the value of millions stuffed in his mattress. One day about ten years ago theives had stolen all his cash. He could not cope with this and it sent him mad. He lived like a tramp for some years and has now adjusted more, but does nothing but walk to Genoa every day and back and climb the hill again. He was not a rich man: he had done nothing with his money and was neither then nor now in the Kingdom of Heaven.

The human condition is a battle between our animal selves and our desire to escape the jungle man within us, to reach a civilisation, and this is the course of evolution that makes us human beings. This is the story of the first chapter of Genesis, that of the strange force that creates order out of disorder and it is in handling this that we become human and conscious beyond the animal.

To those who have not thought about God nor believe in the "religion" of evolution so as to be an "evolutionary atheist", the extent of the elimination of the animal within must be all the more difficult. Not to strive for better civilisation is against either religion, and thus is inhuman.

It's for these reasons why, despite the criticism of all of us who would want to include organs within our shopping lists and put them on the menus for others to enjoy, I believe the promotion of the organ has important consequences for humanity.

To those who tell me that religion has caused more disharmony than concord, I'd answer that it is only the lens of men that focusses on differences and that, Christ teaching that there are only two commandments, all texts of religion should be put under the magnifying glass, even the microscope, and viewed through the lens of the second commandment in particular.

It's for the reasons above that of many of the suggestions so far, I find Pierre's all the more intriguing for his total devotion to organs and particular types of organ . . . and perhaps we might hear more from his expertise possibly in other parts of the forum to enlighten us as to the particular enthusiasms he recommends worthy of pursuit . . .

Best wishes

David P

PS Fulneck and its heritage is certainly worthy of exploration!

KB7DQH

 :o :o :o I forgot that one of our forum members would be engaged in an enterprise mutually beneficial-- but is currently awaiting the "go-ahead"-- or for lack of better language, "the money" :o :o :o

I am, but of course, referring to the "Documentary" ;)

For the purposes of continuing the work of my hypothetical foundation so poorly described above, such endeavours would of course be necessary to bring those with resources available into a frame of mind which would allow them to contribute freely and willingly to the work at hand... My current signature line is but a clue :o ;) :) ;D 8) 8) 8)

Eric
KB7DQH
The objective is to reach human immortality—that is, to create things which are necessary to mankind, necessary to the purpose of the existence of mankind, and which have become the fruit that drives the creation of a higher state of mankind than ever existed before."

David Pinnegar

Dear Eric

The last sentence of your signature line is particularly interesting.

What one might do with a personal access to £25M might possibly not be entirely different were one to be in a position administering £25M of public funds, as many people are. When our administrators can get into the mindset of private benefactors and when private individuals with the wealth of public administrations can get into the mindset of what can be achieved rather than what can be spent on Rolls Royces, Lamborhginis and Maseratis, electronic gates and marble kitchens then many political problems will be disappeared . . .

It all starts simply from what we can imagine and to what we might aspire.

Any philanthropist reading this thread might see that organists are a good place to start as none dedicate Sunday mornings playing the organ in church for personal gain; they must have a wider view in order to be there . . . and philanthropy chooses servants of vision who will carry on and continue to do with resources what they have done.

Best wishes

David P

AnOrganCornucopia

Call me cynical if you will but there are various reasons why now something like 80% of organists in this country will not take a 'permanent' appointment in a church. Pay is one significant reason. It's why a lot of organists leave the church - they feel that their skills and labour (which don't come without their own costs) are not adequately rewarded. All too often we see organists' pay (along with organ maintenance) being the first thing to go when the parish treasurer decides the church has to tighten its collective financial belt.

Oh, and if I had 25 million, I'm afraid to say that a Lamborghini would be on my shopping list - but not one of the very latest ones.

Remember, it was people buying Rolls-Royces who effectively bankrolled Marcel Dupré's touring in the 1920s and 1930s...