Organ matters - Organs matter!

QuoteIncidentally, we also have to persuade the organ anoracs to tear themselves away from their computer organ simulations. All computer organ simulations have to be in some ways organs on steroids, or they would not be attractive enough to invest in. Whether it be the Hill at Hove, the Walker at Lindfield or the Holdich at Charlwood, or the Grant Degens and Bradbeer at Ardingly, were computer simulations to sound like that, we'd say the instruments were under powered and we wouldn't buy the software and samplesets to play them. Only hearing the real thing once in a while, in a real acoustic, can bring us back down to earth in reminding us what organs should really be sounding like. It's SO important to go to live concerts!

Hi!

Considering this further, I wonder whether one might contemplate this from a different angle. . . Perhaps what I should be saying is that in experiencing organ simulations in our front living rooms, as I'm told that many people do nowadays, we're likely to be tempted to be setting up the installation as an organ with mono-sodium-glutamate as we would like it to sound, rather than as the real thing sounds in its real place.

It's for that reason that attending live concerts is so very important.

Accordingly in setting up an electronic reproduction of any sort of organ, one should be starting out with the concept that one wishes to achieve.

One of the very special concert experiences one can enjoy is that of organ recitals at St George's Windsor http://www.stgeorges-windsor.org/worship-and-music/diary/concerts.html when one can have one of a dozen or so special seats upon the cancel screen next to the console and between the two organ cases. One has the direct sound of the detail of the instrument at close quarters with the acoustic of the building in the background - a prime combination for the real experience of the music. It's this approach that I have followed for the Hammerwood concert instrument, taking the basic starting point from the experience of the Open Diapason of the pipe organ in the same space. I hope that in providing such a concert facility, audiences will be keener to go to experience pipe organs in their natural habitats.

Best wishes

David P

Dear All

Such are the wonders of our internet age! THANKS to Ed in Roscoe Illinois for spreading the word on the Hauptwerk Forum - THANKS to Barry on this list who rang me up this morning with a magic telephone number and THANKS to David Fetterman at Makin who understood exactly what the problem was over the phone, told me what to do, and the Makin heart of the Hammerwood beast is now HAPPY! Concert is going ahead and Jeremy will only have his own special brand of musical gymnastics to cope with, without having to think of a lot of registration substitution!

THANKS EVERYONE!

Very much . . . (and thanks for clearly some profound prayers!)

Best wishes

David P

Quote from: robsmall on November 06, 2010, 02:46:12 PM
are there still spaces for sunday afternoon? rob

Hi!

Thanks

Yes - probably about 15 left so if you'd like to come please ring 01342 850594 to reserve seats. We'd look forward to seeing you and in particular any children who might be inspired!

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

This evening I had an unfortunate accident with the original Makin which is at the core of the Hammerwood instrument from Londonderry Cathedral. I was about to voice some pedal notes, plugged in the voicing cable, slipped and pulled the cable and ever since the Swell and Pedal departments have departed. Stops, pedals and manuals continue to provide midi output.

Jeremy Filsell is due to be coming first thing on Sunday morning to start preparing for the 4pm concert.

Can anyone with Hauptwerk save the day or does anyone have the phone number of David Fetterman or anyone else at Makins?

In view of the recent demonstration of Hauptwerk at Bristol, it might be possible to interface Hauptwerk or seamlessly as a stopgap to provide for the recital.

We need a dry sampleset providing
Swell:
Voix Celeste 8
Geigen Diap 8
Echo Gamba 8
Lieblich Gedekt 8
Stopped Flute 4
Principal 4
Fifteenth 2
Mixture V
Oboe 8
Clarion 4
Trumpet 8
Contra Fagotto 16

Pedal:
Bourdon 16
Violone 16
Open Wood 16
Bass Flute 8
Octave 8
Choral Bass 4
Trumpet 8
Trombone 16

If anyone can help it will give a great deal of happiness to audience, performer and avoid a very red face on my behalf. If not, however, there is still a very significant part of the instrument very much in action but it will require great organistic gymnastics on Jeremy's behalf to overcome. It would also be a great feather in the cap for Hauptwerk.

Many thanks

Best wishes

David P
01342 850594

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on November 05, 2010, 04:56:12 PM
This a seriously bizarre instrument even in its 'rebuilt' form!!

Hi!

I'm not sure about that - it's recast in Harrison's standard school chapel configuration without the powerful Tuba on Choir and the Harmonics including the flat 21st removed.

I grew up on such an instrument and had the disadvantage of thinking that all organs looked like this . . . :-) Whilst being significantly despised in modern times, such instruments can have remarkable tonal qualities and need to be played with rather than against . . . and often using the octave and suboctave couplers imaginatively. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIl-LRafVO4 is an example.

Such organs are often endangered because people now don't always understand them.

Our recent member Stephen Best's page has many gems including

Quote"...play the organ at which you are seated. Do not just push keys and expect music to happen, but actually play the instrument. And don't attempt to make the instrument be what you wish it were... play it for what it is and utilize its strengths." (Bob Moody)

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

That's certainly the case with William Mitchell's Claviorganum.
http://www.harpsichords.co.uk/claviorganum.html

But the instruments at the V&A are certainly ones to be seated at . . .

Best wishes

David P

Dear Julia

Well . . . and ebay sale is a contract . . . so first off, I'd communicate with him that unless he sells to you at the price bid and accepted, you'll set off the dispute resolution process with ebay which might result in negative feedback for him.

Welcome to the forum! As an adventurous person trying to rescue an organ it would be great to hear more about what you're doing . . .

Best wishes

David P

Well . . . I have just heard on the grapevine that one of the leading lights of UK organists who we have all heard of is coming to hear Jeremy . . . so that's how good you can expect it to be . . . !

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

If this organist is flying over to England to do a concert . . . then it's worth audience coming a good distance to hear him. Please ring 01342 850594 if you'd like to come!

Why? Why fly over from America to do a concert? Why put together a beast which requires the utmost skill to play? (And the beast is bound to catch him out . . . a concert on this instrument is a bit of sport as good as any wrestling match - and Jeremy says he needs 8 arms to play it . . . ) Why? To put the organ repertoire on the map. To show the brilliance of what the organ repertoire can do. Why? For people to discover that they can enjoy the organ as an instrument . . . that it's not that dirge song machine in the corner. Why? To encourage enjoyment, appreciation and respect for organs so that they don't get destroyed by idiots and ignoramus's.

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

Thanks Eric for the update! I suspect that it's an early onset of Seasonal Affective Disorder as it's clear the instrument blocked a window. Perhaps there were some that simply wanted light and thought it should never have been placed there in the first place . . .

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on November 01, 2010, 01:24:26 PM
Thank you Eric.  And I'm just waiting for Manders to remove the thread, they have a habit if its in the least bit controversial!

Perhaps we should check the source of information naming the particular electronic organ producer and possibly expunge the name from these posts? In contrast, direct evidence of a company vandalising pipes in the course of installing speakers speaks for itself.

The facebook updates show the situation to be even more bizarre - no it's not cracks in the building this time, it's sparks in the wiring . . . clearly irrepairable on an instrument with purely mechanical action: ;D

QuoteStephen Best I just heard why the Queensbury TRACKER organ was destroyed: it was because of the wiring. The organ was arcing and it could have burned the church down. That made the instrument such a huge liability that it couldn't be given to another church. Honest to goodness -- I couldn't possibly make this up. :-/
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            Mari Reive what?
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            John Jurgensen Couldn't it have been rewired at the offending place(s)?
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            John Jurgensen Meanwhile, all the pipework has been thrown away.
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            Lori Bennett Meszler They don't have electricians in Queensbury?
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            Agnes Armstrong ‎... must have been all that electric key action!
            15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleStephen Best and Zachary Uram like this.
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            Cody Mead Absolutely unbelievable.... a shame.
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            Sarah Bach ahhhh I see....
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            John Jurgensen Even if it was all electric key, I find it very difficult to believe that every single connection would be arcing.
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            Stephen Best All those tracker action parts had serious electrical issues. OMC OMG OMG. (Shaking head in disbelief!)
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            John Jurgensen They should've told them that you can't run the hair dryer AND the organ blower at the same time.
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            Stephen Best Read this carefully: this was a TRACKER ACTION organ, a MECHANICAL ACTION organ. Does everyone "get it" now?
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            Ed Kemp in an early morning post from reliable source in the Albany diocese:
            "And no, the pastor has no shame. The "safety" concerns are bogus."
            15 hours ago · LikeUnlike · 1 personZachary Uram likes this.
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            Stephen Best We're told that the pipework (Stinkens and Letourneau) was all trucked back to Connecticut, neatly packed in pipe trays, so that it could be thrown away there. That kept the church from having to deal with recycling issues. (That reminds me -- I have a bridge for sale. Any takers?)
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            Rees Roberts What's more of a liability issue is all of the hot air coming out of the preachers mouth.
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            Thomas Dressler
            Wikipedia: "A lie is a type of deception in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a ...punishment or repercussion for one's actions. To lie is to state something that one knows to be false or that one does not honestly believe to be true with the intention that a person will take it for the truth. A liar is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly . . ."See more
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            Thomas Dressler Catholic Encyclopedia: "But if the common teaching of Catholic theology on this point be admitted, and we grant that lying is always wrong, it follows that we are never justified in telling a lie, for we may not do evil that good may come: the end does not justify the means."
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            Thomas Dressler Also Catholic Encyclopedia: "St. Raymund . . . allows that others teach that a lie should be told when a man's life is at stake."
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            Thomas Dressler wonders whether his lifelong love of playing tracker organs has been much more dangerous than he ever thought. :)
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            Stephen Best One can't be too careful. Those old style organs don't have proper grounding. :-)
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            Rene Marceau Unless there was electric stop action, the ONLY other need for electricity was the blower! It may be an over simplification, but examining the wiring and the blower could have averted this tragedy!
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            Stephen Best ‎@Rene: No...the outcome was predetermined. I'm sure there are other "justifications" waiting in reserve.
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            Rene Marceau Thanks, Stephen! Just a little slow on the upbeat!
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            William Hubert Is this electrical issue from Foley Baker as well ? Actually there was electric stop action at least in regards to the combination action i.e electrically moved the stops on or off. I don't know if it was with a linear motor or electric pneumatic mechanisims however I did't see any of that in the dumpster. Or the useless worthless blower or the wooden keyboards that no one would want.
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            Nancy Long unplug and call an electrician? If all else fails, put it on Ebay to the highest bidder and by a keyboard for every choir member with the profits.
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            Rees Roberts Actually Stephen, those old trackers are quite prone to falling out of the loft. St. Ouen's fell out last year.
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            Bill Miller What"s the problem?? We all know that tracker organs have miles of DCC wire and that's a fire hazard... right? <grin>
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            Elizabeth Jones Well, Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. How reliaable is your information again? strictly hearsay...strictly hearsay...that appears to be a huge problem here.
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            Zachary Uram whoa
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            Brian Fahey Lets see, a tracker might have lights for the music rack, and another for the pedal board. Certainly the disco lights in the chamber are turned off unless being tuned. That leaves.... The blower. Wow, really sparks my interest.
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            Elizabeth Jones Stephen just told me this info came from a friend of his who had emailed the organist. She is not an expert on the organ and I'm sure she wasn't expecting her personal experiences and opinion on the organ to be shared with the world, or to be poked fun at for that matter. It is heresay.
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            Leonardo Ciampa
            Friends: my only response to this is: Happy Reformation Day! This morning I did the first movement of Bach Cantata 80 at my church, during the service. I'm sorry, but I said all along that this priest was not going to be reprimanded ONE I...OTA for any of this, and now, based on the latest information, I believe this even more strongly. With so many little boys to fondle, and such little time, why do any of us believe, for a second, that any cardinal or bishop is going to concern himself with a lost Open Diapason or Krummhorn? It's over; the battle is lost. My only consolation ... actually I have two of them: the Lutheran Church, and the Episcopal Church. Those are the two institutions that give me hope that good liturgy and good music are not dead.See more
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            Norman Selby Is there any room for legal action to be taken against several parties?
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            John Lauter Can we start a letter writing campaign to the archdiocese to get this nutcase priest reprimanded? The organ could have been sold and used elsewhere by a congregation that values such an instrument. About this organ: I know it was a tracker--was it a neo Baroque screecher with two fundamental stops and 15 mixtures or was it a nicely balanced, later sound? I am not a fan of trackers, but this instrument did not deserve this treatment.
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Best wishes

David P

Dear Jonathan

Yes - I agree with you. Trying to reproduce an organ through conventional speakers, even in multiples, is like squeezing the sound through the portholes of a ship, the portholes being the diameter of the speakers concerned. Clearly it's not going to be entirely successful . . .

To be perfectly blunt, I don't think there is any harm in naming any electronic speaker installers who in their actions have made a pipe organ less restorable in the future by reason of damaging pipework. It might make such companies more accountable to the heritage and more responsible in the future.

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

I'm wondering how many organists really know the orchestral repertoire? Even if we play an instrument, we probably know whatever we've played in more from our own instrumental part than the score as a whole . . . Certainly that's my experience.

Accidentally I heard of a concert by the Orchestre Régional Provence Cote d'Azur in Cannes advertised on the radio so I went along to a programme of Rossini, Prokofiev and Saint-Saens. What struck me as audience rather than participant and looking as well as listening, was the extent to which composers used the woodwind section combining flute at 8ft and 4ft pitch to Clarinet or Oboe to thicken them up.

This does not always come over in recorded material where one cannot see the musicians!

Whilst translation of this is inappropriate to baroque registration, it certainly points the way in organ registration to doing likewise, even though only a singular Oboe or Clarinet might be indicated.

Best wishes

David P

Quote from: Jonathan Lane on October 31, 2010, 04:40:02 AM
There is some information that one of the advisors to the church prior to destruction of the organ was Allen Organs.

Aah! So often the case. A vested interest lurking in the background.

It's for this reason that I _hate_ the electronic organ commercial community clocking up electronic organ pipe organ replacements on their trophy-hunters' scoreboards with a vengence.

It's also the reason why, although I use a variety of electronics for the concert instrument for purpose of exciting people about the organ repertoire, I'll refuse to state in public the details of how I get speakers on the instrument to make it sound great, even if that means getting chucked out of the Hauptwerk forum. Anyone buying a commercial electronic organ of whatever make or technology must remain happy to accept that they're getting second best. Carlo Curley proved that to an audience at Chiddingly in Sussex when the imported 3 manual Makin sounded like a hi-fi system in comparison to the one manual gem of an instrument that the parish had just had restored. http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi?Fn=Rsearch&rec_index=D04239

If the Albany parish think their getting better out of an Allen than their pipe organ, as they probably did not pay the full cost of their pipe organ and therefore did not appreciate it, their perception of their ears will probably be proportional to the price they pay. I hope Allen charge them well!

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

Thanks! That is quite a revelation.

I had in mind this morning constructing low profile shallow boxes to take the rectangular units from which might emerge perhaps three 20mm plastic drainpipes of disparate lengths with perforations at random points to kill resonances . . . or one could literally use electrical trunking gently filled with insulation wool . . . ?

Any other ideas?

Best wishes

David P

Hi!

At the suggestion of an EOCS member I have been looking for ways to increase the number of speakers to provide greater simulation of acoustic reverberation. I've been looking at panel speakers inspired by units available 30 years ago which simply screwed into any wooden or plasterboard panel, but have not found any.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170558339878 look interesting. I'm thinking of putting them in long thin boxing almost looking like cable trunking . . . And giving them a spray of white paint!

Any other ideas for cabinet design?

Best wishes

David P

For completeness:

Our Lady of the Annunciation in Queensbury, NY (RC Diocese of Albany)
http://www.organmatters.co.uk/index.php?topic=289.0

Dear Paul

Thanks so much for alerting us on this one. This is the very raison d'etre for the existence of this forum and why I exhort members and guests to share their enthusiasm. Feeding the boilers of enthusiasm is, at times I feel, rather like shovelling coal.

These are the photos appearing there:-





Best wishes

David P

Quote from: revtonynewnham on October 27, 2010, 03:18:11 PM
If this organ is built in Europe (as is the plan), then the control systems will have to conform to the directives for the "CE" mark, which is supposed to keep interference, and susceptibility to outside interference in check.

:-) Organists soon learn to turn off their phones when sitting at my console! Keyboard wiring is also a good aerial!

The reverse happens, however. A film company were in full swing the other day and the production department were having problems with broadband. So I plugged in the Three Mobile dongle into their wi-fi router. There was no signal. At the end of the day, the caterers unplugged their extension lead to their catering unit and hey presto! The mobile Three signal returned in full measure.

In truth, the more one thinks about this very creative project, the more fun it becomes. The idea of a Cromorne turning into a Trumpet at the other end of the spectrum is interesting and actually based on classical organs where the Cromorne is fruity and full in the middle and almost string like in the treble. This concept derives from one manual organs such as at Villefranche, without divided keyboards, where one can still play melody and accompaniment - and the trick is all in the voicing.

Best wishes

David P

Quote from: Barrie Davis on October 28, 2010, 02:40:37 PM
Im getting depressed so will not add more, I may do later.

Dear Barrie

Please can you keep going? Maybe depression may lead to anger and anger may lead to ACTION by the many people who have found what organ music can inspire in life. We live on the edge of the precipice of irredeemable cultural loss - and that is why I started this forum to stoke the fires of enthusiasm.

There are many guests daily visiting this forum and I do hope that they will join-up and join in.

It would be great to get those responsible for music in primary and prep schools interested in involving children in organ events .  .  .

That's one of the reasons for Jeremy Filsell's inspiring concert on 7th November and giving free places to children. But will anyone come? No - it's a niche market - "never heard the organ - that's not for me". We can but try so please keep going!

Best wishes

David P

http://osvguillou.pagesperso-orange.fr/en/osv_4_en.htm

QuoteThus, the slightest movement of the finger is instantly relayed to the pallet by radio-waves.

Passengers are kindly reminded that mobile phones should be switched off at all times during flight and that all electronic equipment should not be used during take-off and landing . . .

Best wishes

David P