Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - David Pinnegar

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 84
The reason why I try to push the boundaries of what the Christian religion can mean is that without churches the organ is dead.

Meanwhile churches are dying because people don't see them as being capable of being relevant to or in their lives.

It's only by the explorations of meaning that people might not perhaps throw the baby out with the bathwater in the rejection of the wisdom of Jesus with which their lives can be enhanced, and the resulting death of the church . . . and of organs.

The two go hand in hand and unless the church finds understandings which make its texts relevant to every day people, both organ and church will die.

Best wishes

David P

Perhaps let this joyous day to come be a celebration of the idea of the Creator which can echo in us the power of creation even when others don't understand how to create.

Not the Creator known by Religion.

By Creator I don't mean that person who people ask about external to the cosmos who created the cosmos, but that power of creation within the cosmos of which the cosmos is its own mind, and of which we are part.

Quarks come together to make protons. The ones that haven't aren't here.

Protons come together to make atoms. The ones that haven't aren't here.

Atoms come together to make molecules. The ones that don't aren't here.

Molecules come together to make . . . etc etc etc

That ability to work together to Create is the Creator.

When we understand that then we are part of the work of the Creator creating.

Today, if you're alone perhaps see if you can find other people who celebrate the birth of the idea of the son of the creator, who understand. Those who don't understand cause troubles because they don't know how to create.

They cause the pains of others and most of all themselves - but they don't understand that.

Only when people have discovered pain do they really understand the Creator better. Unfortunately some people cannot get enough pain and so create it themselves. It's best to avoid them and instead find people who understand.

Working together - the cosmos is self fertilising - if it can happen it will happen and what produces produces more than what creates less and what creates less produces more than that which produces nothing at all. So what creates nothing at all isn't here - or it dies. What doesn't work with the rest of creation and doesn't create becomes irrelevant.

There are many who believe time for the human race is short. That's because humans who have only the understanding of animals will be victim of their own uncreation. But if humans understand their part in creation and create in harmony with all else created by the process I've described above, then humans will flourish as part of the mind of the cosmos.

For anyone interested, the little baby whose birth we celebrate was visited by three Magi. It was Hermes Tre-Magistus who taught that the universe, cosmos, was
- eternal
- self fertilising
- itself the mind of God

So today perhaps we may find somewhere to sing praises to the power of creation, working together, love in the real sense. And in doing so, goodness knows who else we might meet who also understands. And we might find transformation.

We're made of the stuff that at every level of sophistication has followed the spirit and power of working together - quarks, protons, atoms, molecules, proteins, DNA, genes, species . . . . but so many people have forgotten what we're made of.

Even though some people might feel having been kicked in the teeth this year, to compost are those who don't understand how to create, mere raw materials to be used by that which understands how to do it. And a rather wise bloke whose birth we celebrate today talked of the mathematics of it all. So in life we don't need to be that compost to feed what creates most, that talent buried in the ground.

Praise to the invisible, all powerful and everywhere, that process of creation of love and working together that brings us about. May we recognise all our part in it.

Today's the day to find the other people who understand. Forget those who haven't understood - go find those who do.

That's what Christmas is about, and all the more to rant about!

Best wishes

David P

Electronic Organs / Re: Viscount CM100
« on: December 16, 2017, 11:23:22 AM »
Yes I will.

For a one manual capable of supporting hymn singing to the full, the effectiveness of this setup is rather extraordinary. Effectively it's a 11 rank Great with a Viol d'Amour to give the versatility often supplied by another manual.

If one could put a split between stops so as to achieve a split manual it would very ably achieve the effectiveness of French Baroque instruments with the absolutely superb variety of Cromorne and Vox Humana stops.

Speakers are also important and I'm using original style Lowther Acousta cabinets fitted with dual units, one an Audio Nirvana Super 8 fed on a 100uf capacitor and the other a Tannoy 8 inch unit at the side to reinforce bass fed by a 3.5 or 7 mH coil.

The Gamba 16 is extraordinarily effective in absence of a pedal organ and the secret of the whole thing is to voice the 16 and 8ft stops to diminish in the bass so as not to make the left hand muddy.

For the 8 Principal I chose one of the Diapasons with a discordant semitone harmonic chiff, and toned back the power so that it's more delicate rather than in-your-face, and likewise with the 4 Principal, choosing a chiffy one, and also a Spitz Flote for the 4ft.

The voicing allows adjustment of "Character" of the stop. This adjusts the presence of the 2nd harmonic in particular and the harmonic structure above.

To get more chiffy stops to blend, it's effective on the unit to tone back "character" by a notch or two, and also to adjust the delay of attack so that the chiff shines through.

Attack of chiff on a 4ft stop is a trick used by the French Baroque organs to achieve an attack without the 8fts doing so in an in-your-face sort of way.

Playing with the setting up of the unit is helped by a smidgeon of knowledge of pipe organ voicing and likewise is an interesting sound laboratory to work with in giving ideas for new pipe organs.

Very intriguingly the repertoire of Christmas Carols works wonderfully, even best, in Meantone. Equal Temperament makes them sound both insipid, unexciting and impure in comparison.

Best wishes

David P

Electronic Organs / Viscount CM100
« on: December 15, 2017, 02:06:08 AM »
The local church has been declared redundant . . . but there's still demand for a carol event in the Village Hall. We thought of accompanying carols on a strident Sperrhake harpsichord . . . but perhaps it might not support singing if there are enough people.

So I resurrected a Viscount CM100 expansion unit and found an old Midi keyboard and from the library of stops set up
16 Gamba
8 Gamba
8 Viol D'Amour
8 Principal
8 Stopped Diapason
4 Principal
4 Flute
2 2/3 Twelfth
2 Fifteenth
Sesquialtera II
8 Trompette

Of course the effectiveness is governed by voicing and relative balance between stops but after a little work on this the result of the unit working just with one manual is remarkably impeccable. Much better than ever I expected and actually better than many more complete electronic instruments I've heard.

If anyone's thinking of selling a CM100 I'm possibly a willing buyer!

Best wishes

David P


Please can you email me photos? It would be nice to get them on the site somewhere

Best wishes

David P

Electronic Organs / Re: Ahlborn Owners Group
« on: November 16, 2017, 10:46:24 PM »
I'm not greatly active on facebook. Perhaps you might encourage some of them to post here? Facebook isn't searchable so it's not really helpful in terms of helping people solve any problems.

I have a number of their extension units which are truly excellent and inspiring in sound. But a few have been damaged by battery chemical attack on the board. Are these boards at all repairable if this has happened?

Best wishes

David P

H J Nelson 1921
East Stanley Methodist Church
Chester Road DH9 0TU
Grid ref: NZ204531
NPOR G01406
Tracker/Mechanical action
Width: c.13 ft
Depth: c.6 ft 8 ins
Height: c.16 ft
Approximate sizes
Front to back wall = 80"
Height above center peak = 105"
Width of peak (lefthand side) = 29.5"
Width of peak (righthand side) = 30.5"
Floor to base of peaks = 89"
Footwell = 105" Wide x 36" High x 15.5" Depth
Keyboard window = 48" Wide x 33 " High
Each side from keyboard window to outer edge = 25.5"
Organ stool = 53" Long x 30" High x 10" Wide
The Church is closed and the organ is immediately available.
Department and Stop list
Pedal Key action Tr  Stop action Me  Compass-low C  Compass-high f1  Keys 30
             1 Bourdon 16
             2 Bass Flute 8
Great Key action Tr  Stop action Me  Compass-low C  Compass-high a3  Keys 58
             3 Open Diapason 8
             4 Hohl Flute 8
             5 Dulciana 8
             6 Principal 4
             7 Gedact Flute 4

Swell Key action Tr  Stop action Me  Compass-low C  Compass-high a3  Keys 58
             8 Lieblich Gedact 8
             9 Voix Celeste 8
             10 Viol D'Orchestre 8
             11 Gemshorn 4
             12 Oboe 8
             13 Tremulant
Console type  Attached   Stop type  Drawstop   Pedalboard  Radiating Concave  
Swell to Pedal
Swell to Great
Swell octave
Great to Pedal
The buyer is responsible for removal.
All enquiries to the contact below please.
Church Contact:
Mr Cyril Robinson
Woodlands,  3 Park Close,  Annfield Plain,  Stanley,   Co Durham,  DH9 7UW
Tel. 01207 234215

I'm wondering if with the new figures showing the dead end of the Church of England with so few children attending church that the organ is now finally a dinosaur . . . ?

Best wishes

David P

In my browser none of the links to other pages are working . . . :-(

EOCS has now been added to the front page of this forum

Best wishes

David P

I'm wondering how many people have enthusiasm having built their own organs fir home?

Sometimes I hear of people talking about having a spare rank of pipes or a soundboard or two. . . And wonder the extent of home enthusiasms for pipe organs? And how many have built or are building a software virtual organ?

Best wishes

David P

:-) I'm not sure about being bright enough to understand the IOSCS joke but the society has a broad spectrum of members interested in all aspects of organs, pipe, electronic analogue, digital and software, as well as pipe control systems.

It's a worthwhile gathering of people and minds, many of whom are increasingly white haired and who need to pass on knowledge to younger members.

Best wishes

David P

Probably because there is a breed of wealthy bugger as you put it appropriately who thinks they have earned it so they can do what they like with what they have earned. They have no appreciation, let alone respect, for others our the work of others that they might have benefitted from.

This is why the understanding of the work of the Creator has universal value

Best wishes

David P

Organ Builders / Awe inspiring video about the Rufatti works in Italy
« on: August 10, 2017, 01:33:56 PM »
A friend directed me to

Best wishes

David P

Restoring pipe organs / Re: Norman & Beard Question
« on: July 30, 2017, 10:16:32 AM »
A friend tells me:
They used to have a small workshop in Lewes and I frequently visited them. It was they who assisted greatly in the rebuilding of the 2 manual pipe organ in All Saints, Friars Walk, Lewes which I master-minded. What more can I say?
I knew at least 2 of their work-force quite well (all those years ago) and Trevor Reed (01273 phone number given if helpful) springs to mind - but whether he's still in the game or even still alive I don't know.

Best wishes

David P

Well the rise of the Jesus Cult and its overpowering of traditional Christianity in the flourishing of worship songs is precisely why the organ is in danger and disappearing.

I believe there are many more interpretations of the texts than the Jesus Cult espouses and that the concept and power of the Trinity holds good on far more intellectual levels.

Hebrew words could themselves have five meanings and in mediaeval times people were expected to seek meanings of the texts on five different levels.

A story I overhead at my Son's confirmation explains what I mean by the shift towards a Jesus Cult. A retired bishop conducting the service explained to someone afterwards that at the beginning of his ministry he went to a parish and the parishioners asked him "What's all this you talk about Jesus - your predecessor talked about God".

Whilst out of fashion, my beliefs are with those of the former priest.

There's something very rational that I'm looking at in choosing perspective on my vision of God through his son. We criticise Islam for worship of Mohammed but as Christians don't see the beam in our own eyes. Not until we can see the mote in our own eyes as Christians in worship of the Creator can we open the eyes of friends seeking the Creator through different traditions.

I spent my teens among an evangelical "Jesus loves you" group of friends and Jesus loved them so much that he didn't protect them from ills which claimed their lives early. The simplistic view of "evangelical Christianity" is intellectually shallow and unsatisfying, which is why it is unattractive to the mainstream who no longer go to church. In its promotion that the god of Islam is not the god of Christianity it demonstrates itself as being wholly misconstrued.

When in the real world of the mainstream we meet Muslims, Hindus, Hebrews and Buddhists who are devout, worthy and understanding of that something which we understand as the Creator, the jingoistic promotion of the Jesus Cult is seen to be only a business for the promotion of the cult.

Only when the worship of God as the primary focus comes back into fashion will organs be in demand and people will understand the power of the vision of God through the eyes of Jesus. Only then will peoples of different faiths be touched by the Holy Spirit to come together in understandings of peace.

Best wishes

David P

Modern worship songs - actually whenever I come across them I want to run out of the Church screaming. And I doubt if many who sing them will ever be much interested in organs. Perhaps,26.msg9854/topicseen.html#msg9854 answers exactly that.

The trouble I perceive is that the modern literal interpretations lead to a worship of Jesus in his personage.

A trinitarian view is quite possible without worship of the person of Jesus. It's capable of interpreting "Who are my mother and my brothers?" and does not have to result in the worship of Jesus, Son of Man, as God.

For me, Jesus Christ Son of God is the one who hears his father's word and does it. In that is the trinity but the trinity does not require worship of Jesus as God, as the Creator.

The Creator, the eternal, invisible, everywhere and all powerful is an understanding in the image of our understanding, and in our capacity to understand, and through the communication of the idea, the spirit of the Creator we are able to progress the Creation at one with it and as Jesus taught.

I do not get on with the "Jesus loves you" mantra.

"Master Master I love you and I know that you love me so much that you will do my homework for me won't you?"

"No I won't" he said to the soldiers who all died 100 years ago in the First World War with bibles in their breast pockets.

For me and I believe for many contemplation of God is just a little bit more complicated, and rather deeper, than modern evangelistic arm waving worship songs might otherwise try to seduce me with.

And for that rather stick-in-the-mud reason I prefer an understanding of God accompanied by an organ than by the jingoism of the Jesus Cult which says that the God of Islam is not the God of Christianity.

The Creator is the Creator and is the Creator of all. The breath of life is that which gives life to all who breathe. For me the direction of modern Christianity has driven into a corner and left the mainstream in the middle of the room.

Best wishes

David P

I'm wondering if the drop-off of interest in organs, expressed in this forum and according to others in Organ groups on Facebook, and the lack of response to Martin Renshaw's call to action is indicative of something else.

When I was growing up, church services rarely touched on the Acts of the Apostles, and focussed more upon Jesus' teachings about God. It was murmured that the Acts of the Apostles were in some way troublesome and not talked about much. Likewise much of the Epistles.

Now wherever I look the Church seems to focus upon the Church and its supremacy and upon worship of its teacher, rather than upon worship of God.

To those not involved in Charismatic nor Evangelical movements I wonder if that is seen by most, and rejected, for what it is.

It is no surprise therefore that demand for organs in Churches in worship of God is declining with the passing of those generations whose focus was upon God rather than the Teacher.

Best wishes

David P

Unwanted organs – what is their future?

So for these reasons and many more, organs are increasingly finding themselves ‘unwanted’. Everyone ‘in the business’ knows about this but must the present decline continue ? Are the systems that exist to advise on organs, set up when organs were not only ‘wanted’ but seen as normal and good in themselves still really capable of protecting them in the new situation we are in ?

The second reason for calling a conference has been the experience of surveying over 800 medieval churches since 2012 for a research project under the general title of ‘soundsmedieval’. While doing this work, to look for – and find – the surviving physical infrastructure of extensive daily musical activity in medieval churches, we met many people who are responsible for their upkeep. They see their congregations diminish every year, but are determined to try to keep their churches open. We did see and hear some well-loved and cared-for organs, but we also saw instruments, some very good ones, that were not used, and we were often told that finding an organist had become a serious problem. It was clear that maintaining these instruments was a cost whose position in the order of priorities in overstretched budgets was slipping or even non-existent.

Meanwhile, the Church of England has commissioned a number of reports in recent years which show that in most places further decline seems to be inevitable. Last year the Department of Culture, Media and Sport launched an enquiry-review into the Sustainability of Churches. This asked if local communities - whether they attend their local Church of England church or not – might have a ‘responsibility’ for the preservation or upkeep of church buildings. It also asked for suggestions over what churches need to offer in order to be attractive as venues for wider events and ventures. The results of this review, which closed for submissions early this year, were originally supposed to be reported by the receiving committee before Easter, then by early July, but now are due to be revealed ‘in the autumn’. By all accounts, the DCMS was overwhelmed with ideas and reactions.

For organs, though, unless a well-thought- out new approach to the problem is found, the picture could be bleak. One recent suggestion has been to designate many rural churches as ‘festival churches’. This sounds good until you realise that this means they will not be used for worship more than a few times a year, just at major festivals or for funerals. No doubt many churches in small or remote communities may go that way, but it doesn’t need much imagination to see that organs in such places will deteriorate to the extent that they cannot be rescued at affordable cost. To ask an organ to perform perfectly after a long silence is obviously unreasonable, as it would also be to ask an organist to play an organ which might inevitably have become unreliable. If churches themselves become community assets, will the maintenace of organs be shouldered by the community as well, unless they see that it has a useful cultural or educational role ?

So a conference that will consider these things does seem like a necessary and timely idea.,2162.msg9849/

Contact : Martin Renshaw
email :

Theme :
Unwanted Organs - what is their future ?

Venue : St Stephen’s church, Rosslyn Hill, Hampstead, 5 minutes’ walk from
either Belsize Park Underground station (Northern Line, Edgware branch) or
from Hampstead Heath Overground station (Richmond-Stratford section)

Date : Saturday 23 September 2017, doors open at 10 a.m.

Aims of conference :

- To see what systems are currently in place in the various ‘exempt
denominations’ to safeguard organs, and how well these systems are

- To share good and bad experiences,
- and to see if, in the new era of Sustainability, organs can be better protected.

- To discuss how they might be maintained in playing condition
- and to see how they might be used more widely for cultural purposes and teaching.

- To explore what might be done with good organs that need to be moved – do they really have to go abroad ? What organs need to be kept in the UK ‘at all costs’, and what systems are in place to achieve this aim ?

Chair : Peter Burman

Special guest : Judith Weir

Composer-in- residence : David Loxley-Blount ; a new piece by him will be premièred

Organ players : Timothy Roberts, Paul Nicholson

Films about ‘unwanted organs’ specially made by James Dawson

There is no charge for the conference, but conference registration and tickets for the ‘Pipes and Strings’ concert will need to be booked via the link on the web-site. (See below for more details.)

Proposed programme for the day :

Open 10 am ;  tea & coffee

1st session starts at 10.30 with introductions from the Chair and Martin Renshaw. We then will hear up to 8 representatives, including those from the five English exempt denominations, the Churches ConservationTrust and the

Church Commissioners. They will speak about their advisory systems and their engagement with the safeguarding of organs for about 10 minutes each.

Lunch from 1 – 2.30 (sandwiches, soup, cake, fruit, tea/coffee) with live music and films, posters, power point shows etc

2nd session 2.30 – 4 : round-table and open discussion : Where do we go from here ?  How can systems be improved and will denominations work together ? What impact will there be from ‘sustainability’ issues?

4-4.30 : tea and entry of those coming just for the concert

4.30-6 : ‘Pipes and Strings’ : a concert to include music by Purcell and Bach, with organ concertos by Mozart, John Stanley, JohnWorgan and others, and the première of a new composition by David Loxley-Blount.

Organ player : Tim Roberts

String players : Conor James Gricmanis, James Orrell, Hatty Haynes and Bill Hunt

Organs : formerly unwanted organs of 1750, c1790 and 1829

The concert ticket will include a choice wine reception at 6 pm, the wine coming from places where English organs have gone to, or soft drinks.

Booking will need to be made through the soundsmedieval web-site for the conference (10 am to 4 pm) and concert (4 to 6). Please register in advance through this site, even though entry to the conference itself (10 am – 4 pm) is free. We are asking for a £10 donation on the day towards conference tea, coffee and lunch. Concert entry (and drinks) will be £10 if booked in advance through the web-site, or £12 on the door. Full-time student concert advance tickets are £8 ; the concert will be free for children who are 12 and under if accompanied by a responsible adult (maximum 2 children per adult).

What becomes interesting is that the instrument was part of the house at the time the house was listed and therefore should be part of the listing as Grade II*, the structural necessities of the instrument being part of the house.

What an absolute bargain for such an amazing house.

Best wishes

David P

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 84

Locations of visitors to this page

Organ Design

Latroba Holidays