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Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« Last post by David Pinnegar on February 12, 2018, 10:35:27 PM »
Ian - thanks for your wonderful contributions and although the path might seem lonely, contributing from the wealth of knowledge you, and others, have is the only way of encouragement forward into the future generations.

Best wishes

David P
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« Last post by Ian van Deurne on January 30, 2018, 11:20:12 PM »
Hi everyone!
Sorry I haven't been around for a while but like David Wyld has said, there is often times when organ builders have to get on and make a living. My time lately, before Christmas has been totally taken up with tuning. After that, I've been away in the Netherlands for Christmas and the new year, spending time with my family and friends over there. Consequently, I've not had any time to visit this forum but I'm hoping that over the next few months I will be able to rectify the situation.
       As to the question posed here........ No, the organ is not dead, it will never be dead. It is a musical instrument, it assumes its own purpose, through the hearts and minds of it's performers and listeners. You must remember that the organ, in the beginning was only installed in a church because it was the only building large enough to accommodate it.. As time moved on this incredible instrument was found a place in the liturgy, but only after a long and complicated argument about whether it was deemed suitable to be in a building dedicated to the gospels and the teaching of the Christian church. Eventually, after it was realised that the organ was indispensable to lead the singing of the congregation, starting from around 1640 onwards on the continent and I'm sorry to say, very much later in England, it's existence was assured..
       Now, during this present age in many churches are replacing guitars for gedackts and mixtures for mouth organs,  it might seem that the King of Instruments might well have had its day, but it really doesn't matter in the long run. This age of "happy clapper" nonsense will one day soon outlive it's sell by date. The reason for this, in my mind is that the average person, whether they be old or young, , rich or poor is searching for a reason as to why they exist, spinning around on this reletively small planet out in the middle of God only knows where. Not any amount of this kind of superficial claptrap will ever give any answer to their questions. Therefore, they must at sometime realise this, if they have any brain at all and start once again to research the higher aspects of existence......oh,but now I'm getting sidetracked.

The organ, whatever happens to religion in the next 1000 years or whenever, will survive simply because it is. It is the greatest musical instrument ever conceived by human beings, not only because of its incredible voice, but also because of its technical innovations that were started long before anything else. Organ builders in the 17th century were held in the same esteem as rocket scientists might be today. As long as there are people who love music on this earth, the organ will always be there, whatever happens with religion.

Sorry, I'm thinking all this as I write so once again I'm getting of topic!

As promised, I'll do some more writing on some of the great organ builders of history, including the family Stumm, as I've now retrieved my notes from my daughter. I also hope to provide some insight into some fascinating instruments that have been built over the last 400 years that I've been privileged to study and play.

Until then, best wishes from

The Silk Road from China to the west has received a lot of attention recently with the publication of Peter Francopan's book on the subject linking the dots of the routes in the rise of production of and export of silk in the second half of the first millennium BC.

For some time I've been saying that the Gospel of Thomas is Buddhist in its spirit with a sprinkling of Confucius, and others say that John shows origins in Zoroastrianism.

The reason why the Church isn't mainstream any more is that people are seeing that its singular approach to the Divine isn't the whole picture, not relevant to the real world and for many I believe the Cross and the figure of Jesus is an idol.

Only when the Church moves in a more holistic approach to the Divine will it find relevance, and the future of the Organ survive.

We don't give credit to the ancients, their facility for transcontinental trade, communication of goods and communication of thought in any way as different brands of a common currency. It was with this, perhaps that Jesus gave in a reform to Judaism.

"Sacred by thy Name"

In other words - it should not be pronounced. In the Name of Jesus, we replace a name that should not be pronounced by another Name, and it should not be pronounced, uttered.

It's worth contemplating perhaps the similarity with

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao.
The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.

"I am the Light. I am the Way" says Jesus. Was he usurping competing religions? Or was he bringing them together? Not to replace but be part?

Those "pagan" religions oh so to be derided . . . In the wisdom of Apollo, again representative of light, the Name was never to be uttered. Light not of the world but of the mind. Holman Hunt's painting is misleading in so far as depicting a light of material form.

Ideas of the ancient world were much more universal perhaps than we give credit for, and now to be shown up as such in the universalism inherent in a World Wide Web. We think that modern technology is so much more effective than that of the ancients but perhaps in the days of old our ideas were bound by the communication spawned by a web of silk.

Best wishes

David P
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« Last post by David Pinnegar on January 30, 2018, 01:48:08 AM »
It's good to see you back. 

The Organ needs INSPIRATION from such proponents as you!

Best wishes

David P
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« Last post by pcnd5584 on January 13, 2018, 09:53:06 PM »
I have had no problems logging-in this evening. Later (or, perhaps tomorrow), I hope to have a good read through as many new posts as possible.

Best wishes to all our readers, posters and lurkers....
Perhaps, as religions (most, if not all anyway) are fading away, churches could become 'Temples of Reason'.

Although I admit to being an atheist, nevertheless I am interested all aspects of the pipe organ and would hate to see them disappear.  I'm sure that their music could exist quite happily in a temple of reason!
The reason why I try to push the boundaries of what the Christian religion can mean is that without churches the organ is dead.

Meanwhile churches are dying because people don't see them as being capable of being relevant to or in their lives.

It's only by the explorations of meaning that people might not perhaps throw the baby out with the bathwater in the rejection of the wisdom of Jesus with which their lives can be enhanced, and the resulting death of the church . . . and of organs.

The two go hand in hand and unless the church finds understandings which make its texts relevant to every day people, both organ and church will die.

Best wishes

David P
Perhaps let this joyous day to come be a celebration of the idea of the Creator which can echo in us the power of creation even when others don't understand how to create.

Not the Creator known by Religion.

By Creator I don't mean that person who people ask about external to the cosmos who created the cosmos, but that power of creation within the cosmos of which the cosmos is its own mind, and of which we are part.

Quarks come together to make protons. The ones that haven't aren't here.

Protons come together to make atoms. The ones that haven't aren't here.

Atoms come together to make molecules. The ones that don't aren't here.

Molecules come together to make . . . etc etc etc

That ability to work together to Create is the Creator.

When we understand that then we are part of the work of the Creator creating.

Today, if you're alone perhaps see if you can find other people who celebrate the birth of the idea of the son of the creator, who understand. Those who don't understand cause troubles because they don't know how to create.

They cause the pains of others and most of all themselves - but they don't understand that.

Only when people have discovered pain do they really understand the Creator better. Unfortunately some people cannot get enough pain and so create it themselves. It's best to avoid them and instead find people who understand.

Working together - the cosmos is self fertilising - if it can happen it will happen and what produces produces more than what creates less and what creates less produces more than that which produces nothing at all. So what creates nothing at all isn't here - or it dies. What doesn't work with the rest of creation and doesn't create becomes irrelevant.

There are many who believe time for the human race is short. That's because humans who have only the understanding of animals will be victim of their own uncreation. But if humans understand their part in creation and create in harmony with all else created by the process I've described above, then humans will flourish as part of the mind of the cosmos.

For anyone interested, the little baby whose birth we celebrate was visited by three Magi. It was Hermes Tre-Magistus who taught that the universe, cosmos, was
- eternal
- self fertilising
- itself the mind of God

So today perhaps we may find somewhere to sing praises to the power of creation, working together, love in the real sense. And in doing so, goodness knows who else we might meet who also understands. And we might find transformation.

We're made of the stuff that at every level of sophistication has followed the spirit and power of working together - quarks, protons, atoms, molecules, proteins, DNA, genes, species . . . . but so many people have forgotten what we're made of.

Even though some people might feel having been kicked in the teeth this year, to compost are those who don't understand how to create, mere raw materials to be used by that which understands how to do it. And a rather wise bloke whose birth we celebrate today talked of the mathematics of it all. So in life we don't need to be that compost to feed what creates most, that talent buried in the ground.

Praise to the invisible, all powerful and everywhere, that process of creation of love and working together that brings us about. May we recognise all our part in it.

Today's the day to find the other people who understand. Forget those who haven't understood - go find those who do.

That's what Christmas is about, and all the more to rant about!

Best wishes

David P
Electronic Organs / Re: Viscount CM100
« Last post by David Pinnegar on December 16, 2017, 11:23:22 AM »
Yes I will.

For a one manual capable of supporting hymn singing to the full, the effectiveness of this setup is rather extraordinary. Effectively it's a 11 rank Great with a Viol d'Amour to give the versatility often supplied by another manual.

If one could put a split between stops so as to achieve a split manual it would very ably achieve the effectiveness of French Baroque instruments with the absolutely superb variety of Cromorne and Vox Humana stops.

Speakers are also important and I'm using original style Lowther Acousta cabinets fitted with dual units, one an Audio Nirvana Super 8 fed on a 100uf capacitor and the other a Tannoy 8 inch unit at the side to reinforce bass fed by a 3.5 or 7 mH coil.

The Gamba 16 is extraordinarily effective in absence of a pedal organ and the secret of the whole thing is to voice the 16 and 8ft stops to diminish in the bass so as not to make the left hand muddy.

For the 8 Principal I chose one of the Diapasons with a discordant semitone harmonic chiff, and toned back the power so that it's more delicate rather than in-your-face, and likewise with the 4 Principal, choosing a chiffy one, and also a Spitz Flote for the 4ft.

The voicing allows adjustment of "Character" of the stop. This adjusts the presence of the 2nd harmonic in particular and the harmonic structure above.

To get more chiffy stops to blend, it's effective on the unit to tone back "character" by a notch or two, and also to adjust the delay of attack so that the chiff shines through.

Attack of chiff on a 4ft stop is a trick used by the French Baroque organs to achieve an attack without the 8fts doing so in an in-your-face sort of way.

Playing with the setting up of the unit is helped by a smidgeon of knowledge of pipe organ voicing and likewise is an interesting sound laboratory to work with in giving ideas for new pipe organs.

Very intriguingly the repertoire of Christmas Carols works wonderfully, even best, in Meantone. Equal Temperament makes them sound both insipid, unexciting and impure in comparison.

Best wishes

David P
Miscellaneous & Suggestions / Re: Is this forum dead? Is the organ dead?
« Last post by dragonser on December 15, 2017, 05:05:23 PM »
well I seem to have success  logging in here. But yes the comments about everyone leading busy lives is very true ....
have the font sizes changed ?
Hopefully other people here can post as their time allows.
regards Peter B
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